| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Anthar Thebess
423
   |
Posted - 2014.05.20 09:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I post here , to post suggestions, and gather other people suggestions for CCP , as they noticed that people leave eve just after starting playing it.
From my experience - those few times that i tried to get new people to eve, and why i failed.
First simple question that i didn't managed to answer in all of those cases:
"I know that eve is a fine game, many people play it, but i play for fun. I don't want to wait a week, or even two just to start doing something , and all this time wait for some basic stuff to skillup. I play for fun - and i want to have some fun now."
Now the longer version ( you can skip it )
When they start to play eve - they got a noobship, few dozen million from a friend , and a 51 day account, and my help.
They where not newbies to MMO games, or SCIFI gender
The first thing they are noticing that they can start to skillup, undock, learn how to control their ship ... and dock again.
Why?
New people that come to eve have to be very, very , very patient.
After undocking and learning few tricks with their friend they have almost nothing to do.
They lack skills to fit their ships properly, noobships are booring , unless you have a lot of SP and Tech 2 equipment.
They cannot fight , they cannot mine , they cannot produce (or should i say - they should not try to do it unless they want to earn isk)
They have to wait , more than few hours just to fit basic stuff , then they skill this item for a few days in order to use it in a proper way.
Eve then becomes something that can bring fun to them , but until they try to do something else - then they again notice that in order to do it they have to start again wait few fays to take them into real entry level.
Then there are implants, something that is speeding up the SP they get, but at the same time is blocking them from PVP.
Why - they will loose ship, pod , and implants are very expensive for a newbites.
What im suggesting (read again)
Make first missions more meaningful - yes ccp gives them stuff , ships, skill books - but that don't change that they cannot do this thing after those missions.
So why not add free skills after completing those missions?
(after completing those career missions you get)
Exploration:
- probing / hacking skills at lvl 3, racial frigate at lvl 5 ( yes 5)
Production:
- industry skills at level 4 (including ME lvl 4) and pack of random BPC
Combat:
- racial frigate at level 5 , race weapons to lvl 5 , and support skills to lvl 3
Trade :
- racial industrial to lvl 4 , bpc for ship and rigs , base trade skills / contracting to level 3
Mining:
- base mining skills at lvl 4, mining frigate to lvl 5
(after completing of all of those missions )
- basic core supporting skills to lvl 3
etc.
We are talking about real entry skills , and around 20 days of subscription.
People will have fun doing those missions - as they will learn basic eve mechanics.
They will also have the reason why to login next day - to try something else , and get again some free skills.
When they complete all those missions they will also have skills on entry level to most of those items , so they will not become bored in one thing - without ability to trying something else.
If they leave - what is the difference if they had those skills or not?
But if they stay ... whole eve will benefit it.
*if sp for skills already trained during this time should be moved to unallocated "pot", or just ignored - this is something that CCP have to decide. Free skills only once per character of course.
Summer: Moon Mining Changes |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
486
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 09:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
My experience of eve is very different to that noted above. I was running level IVmissions alongside a corpmate within 3 days in my incursus, then 2 days later in an algos. He had no need of me beyond company but I did make the missions run faster by dealing with the frigate/dessie annoyances as he concentrated on the heavies. I also had fun doing so and gained experience at the same time. SP isn't the issue as you can train a multitude of skills to level III within days and jump into a t1 frig or dessie. The important factor for me was being lucky in finding a good corp to start with.
SP is never a problem factor at first in eve in my opinion (unless someone wants to jump straight into a BS...then they can go to the character bazarr but won't last long without taking to time to actually learn how to use the skills they just bought). The key is finding someone willing to help a new player to see Eve for the game that it is. Crack that and you'll get much better retention. |
Anthar Thebess
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 09:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes - you are right , but you just stated that someone created content for you.
You found a person that was helping you a lot - not only by advice , but also being with you on the same grid.
I am talking about people that don't will not go this way , or will not get this kind of help.
Summer: Moon Mining Changes |
Alexei Stryker
Steiners Erben
Die Konkurrenz
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 09:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
I know from my starting days, that you get free skills according to the designation you choose. If you choose military for example, you can fly basic frigates from the start and as a caldari you can fit small railguns.
I know that for sure, because I got my first Merlin after a day and I was able to fit named T1 stuff on it, thanks to nice people in Jita. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
302
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 09:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
EVE is a game that gives great rewards in exchange for patience and dedication.
Even 100M SP players may spend days setting up a supercarrier gank.
If your friends had some free skills, they would probably just get bored and impatient while waiting for the next chunk of skills.
It's just not the game for them, I think. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
486
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Yes - you are right , but you just stated that someone created content for you.
You found a person that was helping you a lot - not only by advice , but also being with you on the same grid.
I am talking about people that don't will not go this way , or will not get this kind of help.
I also learned a lot by myself in many aspects, mainly through career missions followed by research (in google) and trying missions etc. Eve is a rewarding game but it hands nothing to you whether that is for good or bad I'm not quite sure. It suited me as I like to learn things and eve certainly gives that to me!
I'm comfortable with things the way they are *but* do think there is a case for perhaps intermediate corps that aren't NPC but are dedicated to mentoring new players. Any corp member who performs a criminal act here would be booted from the corp to avoid awoxing (and also demonstrate that pirating in eve is definitely an option but not without risks). Quite how the corp would be populated I'm not sure but certainly this is something that could be useful to new players. |
Alexei Stryker
Steiners Erben
Die Konkurrenz
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yeah. I have 90mil and I can't fly a Broadsword. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
382
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
The real "Problem" is, Eve is an oldschool Game for oldschool coregamer, new MMOs on the other Hand are just so Basic and fastpaced thats easy to get in but dull after some weeks, thats also the reason this codefu.. from CCP still exists since 11 years because its just different...
And there is no alternative, thats the sad but simple truth.
Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup |
Anthar Thebess
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well i have 2 characters well over 50mil ( i think one is around 70mil ) , and 2 characters well over 20mil.
It is not about what people that play have, can do, or can or cannot do.
This is about what we can do to keep new players in game.
Yes , if someone find other person that will keep to create content - then this person will probably stay.
What about others?
What harm to eve we will get from a newbies getting after set of missions ( for them probably 4-5 days , unless they play 8h/day) :
- (one) T2 small weapon system
- (one) lvl 5 frigate
- industrial ship to lvl 4
- LvL 5 Ore Mining Frigate.
- LVL 3-4 support skills
- basic industrial skills
- basic mining skills
- basic trade skills
Those skills are very spread out , and only first two have some PVP application, but after all - that is what we want.
They will not make this game unbalanced.
Newbies just get PROPER basic skills
I'm not saying give them Broadsword skills , just basic one.
Summer: Moon Mining Changes |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
605
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 10:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Frankly, I don't care why your friends didn't play EvE. People find reasons not to play a game all day long and most of those will not change.. would you really want those people in EvE anyway? Just look at the gymnastics WoW has undergone to try to attract different player demographics - has WoW really become a better game because of it? I'm very much more interested in finding out why the people who do play EvE play.
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
|
|
Anthar Thebess
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ok so you will get my story.
I always wanted to play eve, i like scifi, spaceships ...
I had two approach earlier - but they both failed , because similar reasons that i stated before.
Third approach worked , as i broke my leg , and i was sitting home for very long time.
So i had plenty of time.
All of those people didn't play WOW then , and don't play WOT now ;)
Summer: Moon Mining Changes |
Alexei Stryker
Steiners Erben
Die Konkurrenz
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Newbies just get PROPER basic skills
I'm not saying give them Broadsword skills , just basic one.
Yes. But they have those already. Its base on your character designation.
I can remember that I was able to tweak which skills I start with. And as I remember correctly one of those skills was already level 5. |
Anthar Thebess
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Because we will not have Atrons and lasers, triple tanked ships, hybrid weapon upgrades and missile launchers.
I know thats fitting issue.
Still at some point i asked one of those newbites why did he put lasers on his atron.
The answer was funny :
"Because i have gallente frigate and laser skills"
Those are not proper way, use hybrids.
"I know 5 days more to T2"
Summer: Moon Mining Changes |
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Because we will not have Atrons and lasers, triple tanked ships, hybrid weapon upgrades and missile launchers. I know thats fitting issue. Still at some point i asked one of those newbites why did he put lasers on his atron. The answer was funny : "Because i have gallente frigate and laser skills" Those are not proper way, use hybrids. "I know 5 days more to T2"
Proper is over rated. Have fun with what you got. If it works then it works. Efficiency at the cost of fun is not a good thing. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages
Shadow Cartel
243
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 11:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Something that may help with early growing pains in this game would be an in-game recommended skill plan. These days races have two weapon types so say you start Gallente the game will present you with either a drone focused skill plan that roles from Tristan to Algos to Vexor while training most of the core skills to 4 then moves on to the Myrmidon and Dominix.
Alternatively if you chose Hybrids you'd still get some drones as they are core skills but there'd be less focus on the drone support skills, just as the drone plan should have some basic gunnery. The hybrid plan would take you through Incursus to Catalyst to Thorax to Brutix to Megathron getting in your appropriate support skills along the way mostly in between Thorax and Brutix.
It would of course be up to the player to actually buy the skillbooks and follow the plans but it would allow them to become effective as quickly as possible without wasting money and effort on skills you won't use by giving them a solid reference to work off of. The certificate system is meant to kind of work this way but even as a vet I found them somewhat confusing but since I generally knew what I was doing by the time they were brought in they didn't really end up on my radar at all.
It would probably also be beneficial to have a similar generic skill plan for an industrialist which goes through your chosen race's industrial as well as the ORE ship line and leads into Manufacturing and Invention.
Failing any of these a simple recommended skill to train dialogue box could even go a long way to easing initial confusion over what to train. |
Ruaro
Space monitoring
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
So for more experienced player alts in just a half of day it will be possible to have a decent ganker with T2 guns. Nice |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
487
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Make it Navy training plan and take players up to flying navy variant ships maybe, then the tech II specializations are open if the player wants them
|
Anthar Thebess
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ruaro wrote:So for more experienced player alts in just a half of day it will be possible to have a decent ganker with T2 guns. Nice
Tbh we can restrict this to accounts <3 or 6 months old.
Older players will not have issues , they just start buddy , train char, use it few times , then if this is not giving them enough fund don't extend it.
They will play on their main account while this char will be skilling.
Summer: Moon Mining Changes |
Ammzi
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
1769
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:
- probing / hacking skills at lvl 3, racial frigate at lvl 5 ( yes 5)
I will exploit this so hard, renters across all of EVE will be dying from loss of blood due to ruptures in the rectal area.
It's a ******** idea, but goddamn I would have so much fun with this implemented.
Tl;dr - No. |
Anthar Thebess
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
How's the new Tribe?
Summer: Moon Mining Changes |
|
|
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2244
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
I would have to echo others that this was not my experience either. EVE is definitely a game where you have to be able to enjoy the now.
When I started EVE i got into a few frigates. Then I trained an iteron. I didn't rig my ships so I could repackage them. I would pack up my Tristan and Imicus (mining frigate back then) in my and pick a spot on the map. I'd fly there and check it out. Look new ore's I've never seen, cool. These mission rats are different, how do I fight them?
I spent the first month nomadically checking out empire space. I still look back fondly on this.
About a week into the game the corp I was with (some people I knew from other games) was wardecc'd. They threw me into some T1 fit tackle incursus and taught me quickly how much fun PVP could be.
Bottom line is that it is total BS that you have to wait to do anything in EVE. You have to wait if you have the attitude of only being able to do something after you can fly ship X. But there is plenty to do out of the gate if you simply enjoy the level you are at vs the level you will be in the future. |
Anthar Thebess
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 12:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Again im not suggesting give new players every thing.
Even level of those skill can be adjusted - this don't have to be the lvl 5.
Summer: Moon Mining Changes |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective
Unsettled.
124
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 13:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Well i have 2 characters well over 50mil ( i think one is around 70mil ) , and 2 characters well over 20mil.
It is not about what people that play have, can do, or can or cannot do.
This is about what we can do to keep new players in game.
Yes , if someone find other person that will keep to create content - then this person will probably stay.
What about others?
What harm to eve we will get from a newbies getting after set of missions ( for them probably 4-5 days , unless they play 8h/day) :
- (one) T2 small weapon system
- (one) lvl 5 frigate
- industrial ship to lvl 4
- LvL 5 Ore Mining Frigate.
- LVL 3-4 support skills
- basic industrial skills
- basic mining skills
- basic trade skills
Those skills are very spread out , and only first two have some PVP application, but after all - that is what we want.
They will not make this game unbalanced.
Newbies just get PROPER basic skills
I'm not saying give them Broadsword skills , just basic one.
So everybody would be forced to run missions? Never.
|
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 13:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:I would have to echo others that this was not my experience either. EVE is definitely a game where you have to be able to enjoy the now.
When I started EVE i got into a few frigates. Then I trained an iteron. I didn't rig my ships so I could repackage them. I would pack up my Tristan and Imicus (mining frigate back then) in my and pick a spot on the map. I'd fly there and check it out. Look new ore's I've never seen, cool. These mission rats are different, how do I fight them?
I spent the first month nomadically checking out empire space. I still look back fondly on this.
About a week into the game the corp I was with (some people I knew from other games) was wardecc'd. They threw me into some T1 fit tackle incursus and taught me quickly how much fun PVP could be.
Bottom line is that it is total BS that you have to wait to do anything in EVE. You have to wait if you have the attitude of only being able to do something after you can fly ship X. But there is plenty to do out of the gate if you simply enjoy the level you are at vs the level you will be in the future.
Not all gamers come from an online gaming community, so to assume this might be expecting too much. |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective
Unsettled.
124
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 13:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote: I play for fun - and i want to have some fun now."
Then they just have to find some other game, too bad. EVE doesn't offer "instant fun." EVE offers a long-term challenge. People play games for different reasons, and there are no games that successfully combine 11 years and instant, casual gameplay.
|
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
29
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 13:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote: I play for fun - and i want to have some fun now."
Then they just have to find some other game, too bad. EVE doesn't offer "instant fun." EVE offers a long-term challenge. People play games for different reasons, and there are no games that successfully combine 11 years and instant, casual gameplay.
Eve does, but it depends on what you consider to be fun. Entertainment value is not the same for all. Fun for a trader may not be the same as a combat person or an explorer. |
Anthar Thebess
423
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 13:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
So far i see old people that have multimillion sp characters saying NO about giving <1mln sp to new players 
Summer: Moon Mining Changes |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
487
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 13:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
If i'm included in the list of multi-million SP players then bear in mind that this char is only ~7 months old (and never played Eve before this) ...training in eve just isn't that slow and how much fun you have depends on what you as a player consider to be fun and your willingness to jump in and get on with it |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
220
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 13:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Its been two years since I started a noob character and did the full noob route, but I am pretty sure that each character starts out with some essential skills at level 3. That is more than enough in my opinion.
Two years in and I still don't use T2 weapons with any of my 9 characters. What's the big deal? Meta 4 works just as well, if not better sometimes.
Starting out the characters like you propose sets the stage for players, new and old, demanding more instant gratification which then leads to power creep and constant rebalancing. Beyond that, instant gratification gets boring quickly.
One game based on a re-imagined TV series went this route. Training a skill from level 9 to 10 took 24 hours. You were skilled out in a few months and had nothing for which to work. You hung on a little longer then started noticing the flaws in the game (there were and still are MANY) then, one day you decide to check out another game and moved on to that. The developers giving your kind of instant gratification just lost a player after 6 to 12 months.
Eve moves plenty quick in the early stages. You still get the sense of "I have to work for this", but it isn't painful to wait to get there. Once you progress into the realm of T2 and T3 ships, it rightfully slows down, the skill times get longer.
The long skill times also mitigate the effect of wallet warriors on the game. In the previously mentioned game, you are eligible to fly the "end game" capital ship in about a month if you are to dump about $100 to purchase game currency. Whether you grind for ISK or whip out the credit card to purchase PLEX you get to the good stuff at about the same rate.
Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues. |
Sorana Bonzari
Paradox Collective
Choke Point
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 13:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
The Truth About Eve.
So I am just going to come out and say it because it seems that everyone is afraid to admit it. Eve is a MMORPG / RTS / Space Sim.
Basically Eve is split in half.
One Half:
The fighting aspect of eve screams RTS. Fighting in eve is about strategy. It comes down to Ship class, tactical advantage, ship fits, and in fleets, fleet comps, and ability to work as a team. These are all aspects of a dynamic strategy game.
RTS games are not for everyone. RTS takes short term and long term strategy in order to achieve goals and requires players to sometimes lay in wait for an opportunity to present itself. This makes the game "Slow" to some people and is simply not for them.
Other Half:
Its a Space Sim. Does everyone you know like Sim City.....of course they do and that's why they are playing eve. The Sim half of eve has an even smaller audience then the RTS gamer.
What can we do?
We can't and honestly don't want to change the game fundamentally to cater to instant gratification gaming. This is not why we play eve. The learning curve has always been a barrier to eve, and CCP is actively working to eve lessen the cliff we call the eve learning curve but simply eve is a highly in-depth game that takes a lot knowledge and strategy to be victories. This is why most of us play eve and it will never go away and should never EVER be lessened.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |