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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
332
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Posted - 2011.11.17 01:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seems to me the whole argument here is that the game isn't fun because it doesn't reward you for being a bittervet as much as you'd like. A lot of your OP centers around newer players like me having too much fun and the fact that older players like you aren't in charge of everything. Forgive me if I don't sympathize. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
335
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Posted - 2011.11.17 01:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was typing out point-by-point response to the second post made by the OP, when I realized something: he just needs his ego stroked because Eve is failing to do it. He wants a universe where only the elite with perfect skills, intimate knowledge of game mechanic (ab)uses, and the dedication to a game to set alarms for the sake of skill training are rewarded with success. He's not satisfied with Eve now because lowly newcomers like myself aren't staring up in awe at him. He wants a game where balance and accessibility are eschewed in favor of players who deem themselves "hardcore".
If you're that badly in need of affirmation, go talk to yourself in a mirror. Tell yourself over and over "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggonit, people like me." Nevermind that the last part is a lie--people don't care for arrogant pricks. The rest of us are here to play a game, not make it a way of life. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
346
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Posted - 2011.11.17 14:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Silent Lamb wrote:someone made a claim I hadn't made valid points to state that EVE is WoWifying... in WoW, everyone has the ability to get on equal footing within a short amount of time. I've said various things on how new players and idiots can get on similar footing in less time than the older players have taken in different parts of my posts over my posts in this topic. if you haven't seen them yet it's because you haven't read my posts yet.
New players NEED to be able to feel like they're catching up, or they'll leave. Simple as that. If "the top" is forever unattainable to those of us who didn't start in the first year of the game, we'll leave. So making the game favor people based on how long they've been playing is a recipe for a slow death for Eve.
As for Eve being idiot-friendly: it's not. Idiots still get scammed, ganked, conned, and demolished by smarter players.
I have voiced concerns about some recent actions by CCP that reflect a *short-term* lack of balance in the way they are handling game mechanics, but it's something I expect will stop short of anything game-ruining and hope will be fixed properly in the coming months. CCP has been scrambling to do things quickly to save face after Incarna, and that haste is resulting in some sloppy work. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
346
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Posted - 2011.11.17 14:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tore Vest wrote:I guess its time for oldtimers to leave their place to the new generation... ?
Is this where we tell them to get the hell out of our galaxy? |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
346
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Posted - 2011.11.17 14:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Silent Lamb wrote:My chosen style of game play is to monopolize things. And you're complaining that CCP, in an attempt to attract new players, has prevented a handful of people from monopolizing everything.
Are you even thinking this stuff through before you type it? Do you REALLY think that you should be able to just arbitrarily "own" a market?
What I cut out was a long-winded rant about how invention means you can't own all the T2 BPOs for something and then set the prices however you want. What I find patently absurd is that you think there should only BE a fixed number of T2 blueprints which you can control.
Instead of unsubbing, start over. Make a new character and don't give it anything from your others. Play a single toon starting from scratch for six months. You'll find out just how good you have it. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
346
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 14:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Silent Lamb wrote: I am dumbstruck that there are 'industrialists' that willingly spend hundreds of millions of isk on 1 ship just to get a measly 2 to 5 mil isk profit.
It works for Wal-Mart. They make remarkably small margins, but deal in enough bulk to still make piles of cash.
Silent Lamb wrote:if I were to start a new toon, I'd end up in the same situation I am now.... which is 'CCP took away the ability to have monopolies, and then nerfed/negated/removed everything that made older players able to possess an 'effective control'. You completely missed my point. You don't know what it's like to be a new player. Forget what you know, and try it.
Or go sob in a corner about how CCP isn't making you feel special enough. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
346
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 15:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
I just realized how much the OP sounds like the recording industry fighting hard against digital downloads in the face of a changing market being driven by a changing world.
"No our revenue stream must be protected! Change cannot be allowed! It's not fair, we worked hard to build this monopoly and shouldn't be forced to adapt to survive!"
Yeah, that worked out for them, too. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
346
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Posted - 2011.11.17 15:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Forums ate my first reply.
Silent Lamb wrote: I'm not entirely selfish out of game... and I really love rubbing success in people's faces.
You actually typed this out, looked at it, and thought it made sense? Wow.
I've decided that you're an arrogant, self-important, delusional prick who fancies himself one of the intellectual elite. The reality is you're just a douchebag who makes enough money that he can buy stuff for other people either so that they'll like you, or so you can show off how much money you have. You're trying to convince the internet that you're something special because in real life, nobody cares.
You probably make more money than me. Good for you. I'm deliberately under-employed so that I can come home at the end of an eight-hour day without bringing home the load of a stressful job. When I walk in the door, I'm not thinking about work. I won't think about work again until I'm getting ready to leave the next day. It's about my priorities: I've got a wife and two young sons. I take pride not in my paycheck, but in the compliments I get on how well-behaved and how intelligent my children are. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
346
|
Posted - 2011.11.17 15:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Forums ate my first reply.
Silent Lamb wrote: I'm not entirely selfish out of game... and I really love rubbing success in people's faces.
You actually typed this out, looked at it, and thought it made sense? Wow.
I've decided that you're an arrogant, self-important, delusional prick who fancies himself one of the intellectual elite. The reality is you're just a douchebag who makes enough money that he can buy stuff for other people either so that they'll like you, or so you can show off how much money you have. You're trying to convince the internet that you're something special because in real life, nobody cares.
You probably make more money than me. Good for you. I'm deliberately under-employed so that I can come home at the end of an eight-hour day without bringing home the load of a stressful job. When I walk in the door, I'm not thinking about work. I won't think about work again until I'm getting ready to leave the next day. It's about my priorities: I've got a wife and two young sons. I take pride not in my paycheck, but in the compliments I get on how well-behaved and how intelligent my children are. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
348
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Posted - 2011.11.17 15:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Silent Lamb wrote:it isn't about survival. I don't want to merely 'survive', I want to surpass and control, like so many did for the first half decade or so of EVE. I want to control, possess, master, and monopolize. you really can't do that like you could for the first 5 and a half years or so. hence why i've stated a few times that I have effectively unsubscribed from EVE and am not resubscribing.
to be completely honest, no person should ever accept a mere survival. it means they've given up of actually succeeding.
Sometimes you have to redefine success.
Bye. Can I have your stuff? |
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
349
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Posted - 2011.11.18 01:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Silent Lamb wrote:CCP is nerfing the older players to the point of new players not needing to catch up to the older players. part of this is completely removing entire skill branches (the learning skills specifically) while removing other valid skills (like in the social skill branch) and then giving newer players ships that take vastly less time to train for are on par with the older players' ships that took 1 year+ to train. if you had read my posts and are capable of adding 1 and 1 to get 2 you'd see I have already brought up your subject in different ways.
Learning skills were basically a pointless prerequisite. CCP removed them because it became standard practice to simply waste the first month of a character's training developing learning skills. They were merely an annoyance when I started the game and I was glad to see them go.
The social skills were related to the needlessly convoluted mission system, and I think CCP did a good job cleaning that up (though The Mittani gave me a good reason to not wholly like the Q20 mission buff)
As for the "easy ships" bit, you seem to be complaining solely about T3s. I agree that CCP needs to buff command ships to make them viable again, but if one class of ship being made less useful is a serious problem to you, I'm pretty sure there won't be any pleasing you any way.
Silent Lamb wrote:Since EVE is supposed to be time based, not action based Says who? Eve is all ABOUT action. Skills take time, but EVERYTHING ELSE takes action. The entire Eve universe is driven by the actions of the players.
Silent Lamb wrote:one would only hope those who have spent longer times in EVE would naturally be more powerful/effective than those who have spent a year in EVE. They are. it's impossible to achieve perfect skills for anything above a frigate in a year.Add months to that in order to be competitive in a battleship. And that's just comparing skill effects, it doesn't take into account the fact that an older player should have deeper pockets and more experience.
Do you seriously want to have EVERY advantage over me, just because I subscribed after you?
Silent Lamb wrote:I mean... why spend years playing EVE if it doesn't give you an advantage when the mechanics that get you skills were made to give older players an advantage?
Because it's FUN?
Silent Lamb wrote:oh, btw, the instant gratification mentality is the WoW mentality... effectively proving that EVE is WoWifying. if you refuse to acknowledge this then congratulations, you don't have a sense of accomplishment in the things you set out to do 1 or more years in advance... wait... you probably are then incapable of doing that in RL since you can't do it in a game. n/m
Aaaaand we're back to self-important douchebag mode.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
350
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Posted - 2011.11.18 03:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Silent Lamb wrote:Learning skills kept a lot of the WoW player mentality away. it also kept a lot of undesired trash away, which is why a lot of older players left, and continue to leave with said levels of trash coming into a game designed to be an elitist's game. the Q20 thing I am completely against, and did not think to bring that point up. thank you for seeing the problems with the Q20 buff.
Learning skills didn't keep anyone away. They slowed down learning for noobs who didn't know what they were, and were an annoyance for those of us who bothered to figure them out and realized that they were going to basically cost $15 to train before going on to stuff that actually mattered.
The Q20 buff really didn't do much other than make it easier to hide mission bots. Mission runners didn't notice a huge bump in payout since the serious ones that produce a lot of isk were already on Q18-20, and the simplification of mission agents was a good thing, in that the previous system served no purpose but to annoy missioners.
Silent Lamb wrote:as for a solution to my command ship/T3 complaint... how about CCP comes out with a new ship class that would effectively take me at least a year to train for in addition to skills I already have and would be superior to its current counterpart? whether it is a frigate or battleship or t2 dread or t2 carrier... I kinda don't care.
I'm not a cap pilot--I have no intention of ever being one--but it was always my understanding that it took a year or more to get into a cap ship with decent support skills. And like I said before, you can train support skills for a year to build a "perfect" frigate pilot. After 18 months of training, I'm *finally* starting to branch out and fly more than one race of ships. You make it sound like anyone can just jump into high-end ships, and that's just not the case. It takes several months even with support skills in place just to train up to a battleship with T2 weapons.
Silent Lamb wrote:I am leaving EVE, like thousands before me have, because I am fed up with trash moving in and taking over.
Contract me a T2 BPO on your way out the door. Do it for the lolz. Embrace the chaos. Hell, give me all your stuff if you just feel like making things interesting :) |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
350
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Posted - 2011.11.18 03:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Silent Lamb wrote:are you aware that there are spoiled rich kids that go to mommy and daddy for money, and then don't have to put forth any effort for said money, spend said money on PLEX's, and then just regularly buy whatever they want because they have a way to legally buy ISK?
Those same rich kids could also illegally buy isk and purchase a bittervet toon on the bazaar. That's something I think you're overlooking here: there are enough characters for sale that no amount of "make it harder for new players" will stop them from spending cash and getting around "the system".
Also, I think it's funny that you talk about throwing around money like it's no big deal, but when someone else does it, they're clearly just spending daddy's paycheck.
Man if you're a troll, you deserve 100/10. Because this is a GLORIOUS thread. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
350
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Posted - 2011.11.18 03:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Oh, and for the record, how many SP do think separates a T3 from a Command Ship (the former supposedly being newbie-friendly, and the latter not)?
Out of curiosity, I evemon'ed the prereqs for both the legion and the absolution (because I own both, and because they can use similar fits with similar support skills). I planned the command ship and strat cruiser skills to 4, and all of the subsystem skills to 5.
Legion: 95 days 22h 31m 20s Absolution: 127d 23h 53m 29s
The difference: 32 days, 1 hour, 2 minutes and 9 seconds.
A whole month's difference. Command ships 5 takes about 15 days longer than strat cruiser 5. So AT MOST you're talking about 45 days' difference between them. He's complaining about a month more training AND lamenting at the loss of learning skills, which took a month or more to train.
Sigh. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
350
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Posted - 2011.11.18 04:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand even then, you probably missed one thing that is required to make them comparable: the T3 must train Warfare Link Spec V; the CS does not (because fleet CSes get extra command module slots by default). That's a rank 6 skill where that last level alone adds another 1.2M SP to the T3 build, which eats into and further reduces the time difference. That assumes you're using them to run gang links. I've seen command ships used as solo PVP ships, and they are quite good at that. In any case, I fail to see where a player who thinks a year is too short to be able to fly "the good stuff" is entitled to complain about 30 days of training. Also, it should be mentioned that along the way to training for a command ship, you also pick up these skills:
Weapon Upgrades 5 Spaceship Command 5 Leadership 5 Warfare Link Spec 4
There's your 30 days right there. All of them are skills you'll likely need for far more than either of these ships. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
350
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Posted - 2011.11.18 08:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
So we've established that T3s actually take at LEAST as long as command ships to train up base skills in order to provide boosts. Funny how it's the "new" guys who actually bothered to look into the claims, while the bittervet who claimed to have such impressive game knowledge made incorrect assumptions.
I think we just figured out where his monopoly went: he lost it due to some fundamental misunderstanding of the game. "But I've been playing it longer, I should be better at it than you!" he'll bluster. As if time spent playing a game somehow qualifies you as an expert in its own right. |
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