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Economics 101 or is it?

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K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.16 23:50:00 - [1] - Quote wtf is it with people whining how much is made by players in all the various ways in Eve, in particular L4 missions and Incursions? Economics 101 - When you provide better income it drives demand because there is more disposable income being spent. - When things are cheaper, people will also buy more, creating more demand. Result - Greater demand reduces supply thus increasing prices etc. It's basic economics and we see it every day all over the world in RL. In Eve, this translates to "lesser" pilots flying better ships which makes for richer targets. Given that these same pilots will also have less aversion to risk because they can replace easier. It means more BPO's sold, more towers with better mods and so on. This in turn generates demand in other areas such as fuels and even ships to do the logistics for said extra towers etc. Why is this a problem? Jealousy?
Zynar11 RennTech Fatal Ascension 11	Posted - 2011.11.16 23:53:00 - [2] - Quote That would be true except for that inflation thing.
Mr Kidd Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 169	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:05:00 - [3] - Quote Zynar11 wrote: That would be true except for that inflation thing. There is far more wrong with the Eve economy than inflation. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX!
K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:06:00 - [4] - Quote Zynar11 wrote: That would be true except for that inflation thing. Inflation has the effect of increasing prices due to demand because of greater disposable income. Unless I've read the markets wrong, I'm seeing most prices fall. (except PLEX but that has external contributing factors) That's a result of oversupply. If it were the result of isk faucets it'd be the reverse.
Zleon Leigh 18	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:20:00 - [5] - Quote All the extra income in going into hedging -PLEX because of manipulation and CCP development uncertainties. Because of skill limits - people limit themselves to a given level of purchases. Since you can only drive a one shiney BS's per account, and the high PLEX price, which leads to fewer accounts, the isk drains are blocked even more. Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day
Terminal Insanity Convex Enterprises The Silent One's 105	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:20:00 - [6] - Quote It became a problem when people realized how much control they have over CCP, mostly via CSM. Other developers can just flat out rip people off (look at tf2 store) and they would simply ignore / move / lock posts by people who really raged about the issue CCP has been really awesome, too awesome, in this dept. CSM was a really cool idea, but in the end, they've given way too much power to the players, and now the players can essentially destroy the game Valve charges players 5000+ real dollars for a glowing hat, and did you see any news on game websites over that? Nope. But CCP dare place a 150 dollar monocle on their store? GRABS PITCHFORKS (And those 5000 dollar tf2 hats are NOT available via any other means)
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:21:00 - [7] - Quote Economy is an lie. Money is an idea. People are ******. And soon we will all feel it.
K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:26:00 - [8] - Quote Zleon Leigh wrote: All the extra income in going into hedging -PLEX because of manipulation and CCP development uncertainties. Because of skill limits - people limit themselves to a given level of purchases. Since you can only drive a one shiney BS's per account, and the high PLEX price, which leads to fewer accounts, the isk drains are blocked even more. And this can be easily offset by CCP by injecting PLEX or reducing RL cost for PLEX. Keep in mind that PLEX prices have external factors (less expenditure in RL is one of them) and their bearing on the Eve economy should be mutually exclusive insofar as "fiddling the books" to make it fit. As for 1 x shiney BS per account, I beg to differ. MOST players would have many ships available because most core SP allows for mutliple types to be flown. Players with greatest income to buy said ships also have the greatest SP to make it possible.
ASadOldGit School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 14	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:30:00 - [9] - Quote K Suri wrote: wtf is it with people whining how much is made by players in all the various ways in Eve, in particular L4 missions and Incursions? I didn't think it was the amount they made that they were complaining about, but the vastly reduced level of risk compared to making the same amount of ISK in nullsec... My container is NOT imploding! It's just a bit upset that it only sees cheap crap.
Henry Haphorn Aliastra Gallente Federation 75	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:30:00 - [10] - Quote Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Economy is a lie. Is that a thinly-disguised Portal reference? Btw, fyp.
betoli Morior Invictus. Velocitas Eradico 11	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:40:00 - [11] - Quote K Suri wrote: Economics 101 I'm going to guess at this point that you haven't studied any economics.
K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:43:00 - [12] - Quote ASadOldGit wrote: K Suri wrote: wtf is it with people whining how much is made by players in all the various ways in Eve, in particular L4 missions and Incursions? I didn't think it was the amount they made that they were complaining about, but the vastly reduced level of risk compared to making the same amount of ISK in nullsec... I'm inclined to agree but that's not the fault of highsec bears. Nerfing highsec seems to be the popular call but L4's have been making the same coin for a longtime so it's only the milking of Incursion sites that may have been overlooked or underestimated by CCP that is relatively new. And CCP has already stated that they ****** up insofar as 0.0 income so hopefully the new anom regime will start the correction. But it doesn't explain why ship/mod prices are so low. PLEX prices may have increased dramatically (lack of PLEX coming into Eve is what is causing the issue I think) but the "new" income being generated should easily offset that for most players and still keep demand high. I'm still of the view that the amount of material available - i.e. oversupply - is the cause of price drops. Is it because there's no serious wars and/or perhaps a large part of the playerbase has gone indy?
K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 00:45:00 - [13] - Quote betoli wrote: K Suri wrote: Economics 101 I'm going to guess at this point that you haven't studied any economics. Basics only a long time ago. But I pose the topic more as a question than a statement. I'm not sure the rage against missioners and Incursions is justified. Looking for views as to the causes of the grief.
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 76	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:14:00 - [14] - Quote K Suri wrote: Economics 101 - When you provide better income it drives demand because there is more disposable income being spent. - When things are cheaper, people will also buy more, creating more demand. Result - Greater demand reduces supply thus increasing prices etc. It's basic economics and we see it every day all over the world in RL. LOL. Four years getting an economics degree: $28,000 plus interest Attending twenty-six "occupy" protests: $198 for lattes to be able to use the Starbucks bathroom Graduating into unemployment and loan shark debt: one kidney Laughing at people who don't have a clue as to what they're talking about: *priceless* There are some things money *can* buy. For everything else, there are ignorant people making public observations on the Internet.
K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:33:00 - [15] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: K Suri wrote: Economics 101 - When you provide better income it drives demand because there is more disposable income being spent. - When things are cheaper, people will also buy more, creating more demand. Result - Greater demand reduces supply thus increasing prices etc. It's basic economics and we see it every day all over the world in RL. LOL. Four years getting an economics degree: $28,000 plus interest Attending twenty-six "occupy" protests: $198 for lattes to be able to use the Starbucks bathroom Graduating into unemployment and loan shark debt: one kidney Laughing at people who don't have a clue as to what they're talking about: *priceless* There are some things money *can* buy. For everything else, there are ignorant people making public observations on the Internet. Quite. 2 posts stating I have no idea while not providing any actual evidence that they do. I reiterate. It's a QUESTION based on the premise of what I understand in RL based on MY spending habits etc. And yes, the world's economy is working just dandy. All created and operated by people with "Economics degrees". And in your case, it's working so well, you paid 28k for it and you're outta work and spend your time making protestional gestures to fix the "economic problems". I'm just a dunderheaded lumberjack without a economic degree earning 100k a year. LOL
Iam Widdershins Project Nemesis Moar Tears 253	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:37:00 - [16] - Quote K Suri wrote: [quote=Destiny Corrupted]I'm just a dunderheaded lumberjack without a economic degree earning 100k a year. LOL Well, if you really do make that much money cutting down trees, I'm glad you managed to find a place in the world, because your ideas of the workings of economics are wrong in so many ways that it is difficult to summarize.
Otocinclus FODT 1	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:42:00 - [17] - Quote K Suri wrote: I reiterate. It's a QUESTION based on the premise of what I understand in RL based on MY spending habits etc. It's a good thing you fly spaceships IRL, otherwise what you learned about economics in high school might not apply.
K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:42:00 - [18] - Quote Iam Widdershins wrote: K Suri wrote: I'm just a dunderheaded lumberjack without a economic degree earning 100k a year. LOL Well, if you really do make that much money cutting down trees, I'm glad you managed to find a place in the world, because your ideas of the workings of economics are wrong in so many ways that it is difficult to summarize. That's 4. Besides me NOT knowing what I'm talking about is there anywhere out there that DOES? Incidentally, the lumberjack reference is to imply stupidity which is not in fact synonymous with ignorance. However, TITLE == Economics 101 or is it? I don't know. I'm ASKING. Edited to modify count of "You're an idiot and I'm an expert" posts.
Otocinclus FODT 1	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:45:00 - [19] - Quote K Suri wrote: But it doesn't explain why ship/mod prices are so low. PLEX prices may have increased dramatically (lack of PLEX coming into Eve is what is causing the issue I think) but the "new" income being generated should easily offset that for most players and still keep demand high. Do you actually know this little about the game?
K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:47:00 - [20] - Quote Otocinclus wrote: K Suri wrote: But it doesn't explain why ship/mod prices are so low. PLEX prices may have increased dramatically (lack of PLEX coming into Eve is what is causing the issue I think) but the "new" income being generated should easily offset that for most players and still keep demand high. Do you actually know this little about the game? Obviously not it seems. Perhaps you'd be patient enough to enlighten me?
Vigdis Thorisdottir Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:52:00 - [21] - Quote Can you imagine what would happen if the Eve economy allowed you to spend money you don't have?
Iam Widdershins Project Nemesis Moar Tears 253	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:53:00 - [22] - Quote K Suri wrote: Edited to modify count of "You're an idiot and I'm an expert" posts. I'm not an expert, nor have I ever claimed to be, but I know enough to know that you ARE an idiot. PLEX prices are rising because, as the new expansion is on the verge of release, poor college students with no money and no jobs who built up massive amounts of ISK over the summer are coming back to play and spending their ISK reserves on PLEX to keep their accounts alive. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with your crazy backwards idea of supply, demand, and sinks/drains.
Iam Widdershins Project Nemesis Moar Tears 253	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:56:00 - [23] - Quote K Suri wrote: my solo earned multi-billion empire GUYS he knows how to grind missions all day CCP should hire him to replace their economics expert immediately.
Otocinclus FODT 1	Posted - 2011.11.17 01:58:00 - [24] - Quote K Suri wrote: Otocinclus wrote: K Suri wrote: But it doesn't explain why ship/mod prices are so low. PLEX prices may have increased dramatically (lack of PLEX coming into Eve is what is causing the issue I think) but the "new" income being generated should easily offset that for most players and still keep demand high. Do you actually know this little about the game? Obviously so it seems. Perhaps you'd be patient enough to enlighten me? (I will have to preclude knowledge of my solo earned multi-billion empire as any kind of expertise though. I'm OK with that.) People make billions of isk off the market, it's nothing new. If anything, it serves to show how much of a flaming ****** you are, as it's clearly not given you any knowledge of how an economy actually works.
K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 02:03:00 - [25] - Quote Iam Widdershins wrote: K Suri wrote: Edited to modify count of "You're an idiot and I'm an expert" posts. I'm not an expert, nor have I ever claimed to be, but I know enough to know that you ARE an idiot. PLEX prices are rising because, as the new expansion is on the verge of release, poor college students with no money and no jobs who built up massive amounts of ISK over the summer are coming back to play and spending their ISK reserves on PLEX to keep their accounts alive. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with your crazy backwards idea of supply, demand, and sinks/drains. If the post was about PLEX specifically I'd be most humble and retract my sarcasm but unfortunately you failed so I'll pass on that. I am in fact asking why there are so many complaints about how much highseccers are earning and calls for nerfing of L4's and Incursion income as a "fix". I'm making suppositions - based on my limited knowledge - as to why that might be hoping to illicit answers. Perhaps you "economists" can get off the holier-than-thou train and move into the education arena.
K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 02:05:00 - [26] - Quote Iam Widdershins wrote: K Suri wrote: my solo earned multi-billion empire GUYS he knows how to grind missions all day CCP should hire him to replace their economics expert immediately. In fact no. I started BPO aquisitions from the get-go and have enough invested in S&I to play very, very passively. I have so much time on my hands while I make these 100's of millions that I come here to be abused by people with little else to do obviously.
K Suri Red Gooey Bananas 42	Posted - 2011.11.17 02:07:00 - [27] - Quote Otocinclus wrote: K Suri wrote: Otocinclus wrote: K Suri wrote: But it doesn't explain why ship/mod prices are so low. PLEX prices may have increased dramatically (lack of PLEX coming into Eve is what is causing the issue I think) but the "new" income being generated should easily offset that for most players and still keep demand high. Do you actually know this little about the game? Obviously so it seems. Perhaps you'd be patient enough to enlighten me? (I will have to preclude knowledge of my solo earned multi-billion empire as any kind of expertise though. I'm OK with that.) People make billions of isk off the market, it's nothing new. If anything, it serves to show how much of a flaming ****** you are, as it's clearly not given you any knowledge of how an economy actually works. Oh the rage is palpable. I have dared to question the economic theorists. (I might even send you a postcard next time you buy one of my cap BPC kits. Can you afford it?) EDIT: Triple Post!! Yahooo.
Otocinclus FODT 2	Posted - 2011.11.17 02:11:00 - [28] - Quote K Suri wrote: Iam Widdershins wrote: K Suri wrote: Edited to modify count of "You're an idiot and I'm an expert" posts. I'm not an expert, nor have I ever claimed to be, but I know enough to know that you ARE an idiot. PLEX prices are rising because, as the new expansion is on the verge of release, poor college students with no money and no jobs who built up massive amounts of ISK over the summer are coming back to play and spending their ISK reserves on PLEX to keep their accounts alive. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with your crazy backwards idea of supply, demand, and sinks/drains. If the post was about PLEX specifically I'd be most humble and retract my sarcasm but unfortunately you failed so I'll pass on that. I am in fact asking why there are so many complaints about how much highseccers are earning and calls for nerfing of L4's and Incursion income as a "fix". I'm making suppositions - based on my limited knowledge - as to why that might be hoping to illicit answers. Perhaps you "economists" can get off the holier-than-thou train and move into the education arena. No, you specifically put down people who were actually arguing against an extremely unbalanced isk faucet, specifically incursions. You called them jealous whiners, and now you're annoyed that they're pointing out that you clearly have no clue what you're talking about, even as you continue to dig yourself deeper into your self-centered pit of cluelessness? Incursions, when run properly, produce an insane amount of isk for an activity that is almost completely free of risk, and is even moreso with the recent aggro mechanics changes. If you would like to continue to propose your half-assed theories based on your nonexistent knowledge of economics, then by all means...
Otocinclus FODT 2	Posted - 2011.11.17 02:14:00 - [29] - Quote K Suri wrote: I have so much time on my hands while I make these 100's of millions that I come here to be abused by people with little else to do obviously. Oh the rage is palpable. I have dared to question the economic theorists. (I might even send you a postcard next time you buy one of my cap BPC kits. Can you afford it?) EDIT: Triple Post!! Yahooo. Shocked You'll notice, students, that the OP began to realize that his argument was indeed lost right around here.
JitaJane Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 47	Posted - 2011.11.17 02:18:00 - [30] - Quote First: I have no doubt that is what your econ 101 prof told you. It is also completely wrong. Your Chem 101 prof told you that electrons orbit the nucleus in neat valence orbits. This is also good fertilizer. Second: The reason some group gets blamed for the general state of the economy almost never has anything to do with the economy. Usually it is whomever the speaker think's is 'getting over' This is true in RL as well as Eve.

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