That would be true except for that inflation thing.

That would be true except for that inflation thing.

All the extra income in going into hedging -PLEX because of manipulation and CCP development uncertainties.

Because of skill limits - people limit themselves to a given level of purchases. Since you can only drive a one shiney BS's per account, and the high PLEX price, which leads to fewer accounts, the isk drains are blocked even more.

wtf is it with people whining how much is made by players in all the various ways in Eve, in particular L4 missions and Incursions?

Economy is a lie.

Economics 101

I didn't think it was the amount they made that they were complaining about, but the vastly reduced level of risk compared to making the same amount of ISK in nullsec...

I'm going to guess at this point that you haven't studied any economics.

Economics 101
- When you provide better income it drives demand because there is more disposable income being spent.
- When things are cheaper, people will also buy more, creating more demand.

Result
- Greater demand reduces supply thus increasing prices etc.

It's basic economics and we see it every day all over the world in RL.

LOL.

Four years getting an economics degree: $28,000 plus interest
Attending twenty-six "occupy" protests: $198 for lattes to be able to use the Starbucks bathroom
Graduating into unemployment and loan shark debt: one kidney
Laughing at people who don't have a clue as to what they're talking about: priceless

There are some things money can buy. For everything else, there are ignorant people making public observations on the Internet.

[quote=Destiny Corrupted]I'm just a dunderheaded lumberjack without a economic degree earning 100k a year.

LOL

I reiterate. It's a QUESTION based on the premise of what I understand in RL based on MY spending habits etc.

Well, if you really do make that much money cutting down trees, I'm glad you managed to find a place in the world, because your ideas of the workings of economics are wrong in so many ways that it is difficult to summarize.

But it doesn't explain why ship/mod prices are so low. PLEX prices may have increased dramatically (lack of PLEX coming into Eve is what is causing the issue I think) but the "new" income being generated should easily offset that for most players and still keep demand high.

Do you actually know this little about the game?

Edited to modify count of "You're an idiot and I'm an expert" posts.

my solo earned multi-billion empire

Obviously so it seems. Perhaps you'd be patient enough to enlighten me?

(I will have to preclude knowledge of my solo earned multi-billion empire as any kind of expertise though. I'm OK with that.)

I'm not an expert, nor have I ever claimed to be, but I know enough to know that you ARE an idiot.

PLEX prices are rising because, as the new expansion is on the verge of release, poor college students with no money and no jobs who built up massive amounts of ISK over the summer are coming back to play and spending their ISK reserves on PLEX to keep their accounts alive.

It doesn't have a damn thing to do with your crazy backwards idea of supply, demand, and sinks/drains.

GUYS

he knows how to grind missions all day

CCP should hire him to replace their economics expert immediately.

People make billions of isk off the market, it's nothing new. If anything, it serves to show how much of a flaming ****** you are, as it's clearly not given you any knowledge of how an economy actually works.

If the post was about PLEX specifically I'd be most humble and retract my sarcasm but unfortunately you failed so I'll pass on that.

I am in fact asking why there are so many complaints about how much highseccers are earning and calls for nerfing of L4's and Incursion income as a "fix".

I'm making suppositions - based on my limited knowledge - as to why that might be hoping to illicit answers. Perhaps you "economists" can get off the holier-than-thou train and move into the education arena.

I have so much time on my hands while I make these 100's of millions that I come here to be abused by people with little else to do obviously.

Oh the rage is palpable.

I have dared to question the economic theorists.

(I might even send you a postcard next time you buy one of my cap BPC kits. Can you afford it?)

EDIT: Triple Post!! Yahooo. Shocked

...as to why that might be hoping to illicit answers.

(I might even send you a postcard next time you buy one of my cap BPC kits. Can you afford it?)

No, you specifically put down people who were actually arguing against an extremely unbalanced isk faucet, specifically incursions. You called them jealous whiners, and now you're annoyed that they're pointing out that you clearly have no clue what you're talking about, even as you continue to dig yourself deeper into your self-centered pit of cluelessness?

Incursions, when run properly, produce an insane amount of isk for an activity that is almost completely free of risk, and is even moreso with the recent aggro mechanics changes.

If you would like to continue to propose your half-assed theories based on your nonexistent knowledge of economics, then by all means...

wtf is it with people whining how much is made by players in all the various ways in Eve, in particular L4 missions and Incursions?

Economics 101
- When you provide better income it drives demand because there is more disposable income being spent.
- When things are cheaper, people will also buy more, creating more demand.

Result
- Greater demand reduces supply thus increasing prices etc.

It's basic economics and we see it every day all over the world in RL.

In Eve, this translates to "lesser" pilots flying better ships which makes for richer targets. Given that these same pilots will also have less aversion to risk because they can replace easier.

It means more BPO's sold, more towers with better mods and so on. This in turn generates demand in other areas such as fuels and even ships to do the logistics for said extra towers etc.

Why is this a problem?

Jealousy?

A good Incursion runner can pull at least a plex a day so why the "rush" to purchase driving prices?

DEMAND for PLEX has increased under whatever guise and SUPPLY has obviously reduced. A lot of theories about "poor college kids prepping for summer" etc. do not hold water because we'd be seeing similar massive spikes every year. There have been marginal seasonal spikes in PLEX prices before, but NOTHING compared to now.

A good Incursion runner can pull at least a plex a day so why the "rush" to purchase driving prices?

DEMAND for PLEX has increased under whatever guise and SUPPLY has obviously reduced. A lot of theories about "poor college kids prepping for summer" etc. do not hold water because we'd be seeing similar massive spikes every year. There have been marginal seasonal spikes in PLEX prices before, but NOTHING compared to now.

So where's all this "insane income" being spent?

And you clearly didn't read my description of what is happening to PLEX. This time of year, students are settling into school and either they are still playing or are re-subscribing now that school is in a rhythm, but they are out of money. That is what happens. This year's spike is bigger because the new expansion is one of the best yet, and it is being widely publicized as such.

Most people can't make 6 billion isk in 2 weeks. You clearly are an ass.

I think I mentioned somewhere about not enough RL coin buying plex to bring into Eve. Which is surprising given the ROI atm.


Yes I was being an ass when I said it - that was my point tbh. The yapping going on about the amount of isk being generated via L4's and Incursions is bullshit imho

(I saw recently someone stating 1 billion for a 8-10 hour Incursion session - that's 100m+/hr!! My questioning includes whether some of the rage directed at Incursions runners is as a result of stupid comments like this rather than any ACTUAL effect.)

A lack of PLEX supply isn't causing the rise in price. I don't know how many posts will be required for you to understand this.

I can also personally tell you that 8-10 hours for a billion isk is understated, unless you're running one account with a slow, unorganized group for some reason.

Quite. 2 posts stating I have no idea while not providing any actual evidence that they do.

I reiterate. It's a QUESTION based on the premise of what I understand in RL based on MY spending habits etc.

And yes, the world's economy is working just dandy. All created and operated by people with "Economics degrees". And in your case, it's working so well, you paid 28k for it and you're outta work and spend your time making protestional gestures to fix the "economic problems".

I'm just a dunderheaded lumberjack without a economic degree earning 100k a year.

LOL

(Protip. Read the title of the OP and start again)

On the former, so what is? It doesn't make sense. If there were plenty available why would the price go up. You say you've explained this?? Where?

As for the latter, you're telling me that they DO make this kind of cash. Someone else said I was wrong when I suggested if that were true they could make 6b in 2 weeks easily. Effectively a years plex!

Which is it guys?

On the former, so what is? It doesn't make sense. If there were plenty available why would the price go up. You say you've explained this?? Where?

As for the latter, you're telling me that they DO make this kind of cash. Someone else said I was wrong when I suggested if that were true they could make 6b in 2 weeks easily. Effectively a years plex!

Which is it guys?

Again, if you understood the basics of economics, the increase in price wouldn't be so difficult to grasp. Various people have tried to explain it to you, but you seem to be too preoccupied replying to widders and myself.

wtf is it with people whining how much is made by players in all the various ways in Eve, in particular L4 missions and Incursions?

oh ffs.

Oto says >>> A lack of PLEX supply isn't causing the rise in price. I don't know how many posts will be required for you to understand this.

Iam says >>> The fact remains that there are a limited number of people who can afford to spend extra money IRL and are willing to do so to get money in EVE, a limited amount they can spend, and a limited amount of ISK they actually need. Meanwhile, the number of people paying for the game by purchasing PLEX is rising rapidly.

K Suri SAID >>> Demand in game is obviously exceeding supply from RL.

Iam says >>> I don't understand how you can be so blitheringly dim.

Neither can I. I'm more confused now than when I started.

I won't go into the econ. part of your post, because I don't know enough to address it. What I will say, is that there is a perception amongst various groups in the game, that having Hi-Sec being the *best* answer for all manufacturing, R&D and isk making activities when the "risk/reward" ratio is so slanted to "minimal risk" in Hi-sec, compared to other areas of space.

Having all (or most, or just a good portion of it) concentrated in Hi-sec, reduces the population of other areas of the game.

See the "farms and fields" thread (I think it's still there). So it's not "jealousy" as much as it is, a game balance idea. Another good thread is Malcanis' thread "A Hi-Sec Manifesto" wherein he explicitly states that it is *not* a good idea to force people to move, rather it is better to "attract" people towards moving zones of operation.

Hope that helps.

Alas. Someone read my OP. Muchos gracias.

As much as I usually disagree with Malcanis (and he with me), the attraction to other sectors by inducement has always been my belief too rather than the nerf bat continously yielded.

(On the economics, I'm just seeing too much "it's messing with the economy" as a reason for the bitching about highsec income. Hence "jealousy?" was questioned as a motive behind it.)

K Suri SAID >>> Demand in game is obviously exceeding supply from RL.

Are you going to continue to pick and choose quotes from the two of us, or listen to the collective reason of everyone telling you essentially the same thing?

SELLER >> I've got it, you want it, you pay.
BUYER >> I can't afford it. Bye.

Neither. You guys go argue amongst yourselves. It's been more about playing semantics with supposed experts than getting answers. I mean let's face it, a quick look at "economics" on Wiki alone tells me that even you experts can't agree on what is an appropriate economic principle! Why so many damned economic theories if it's all so precise?

I'll stick with the 2 broadest forms of economic principle there is for simple plebs:-

SELLER >> I've got it, you want it, you pay.
BUYER >> I can't afford it. Bye.

(It takes 28k and 4 years to learn THAT!?)

As an addition to my previous post, I want to add that demand isn't always natural. Demand can be artificially created through market manipulation.

Not too long before the PLEX system was introduced, we bought and sold 30 and 90 day time codes in a special section of the forums. At some point, the sellers wised up, and realized they could drive the prices up very quickly. What they did was create many sell threads, and then use alts to pretend to purchase them. They then inflated their prices, as well as the fake bids their alts gave. Within only a few months, time code prices skyrocketed to twice the cost. A few months after that, the PLEX system was implemented. I believe PLEXes initially cost a bit less than 300 million a pop. Compare that to the 270-360 million price tag for a 90 day GTC just a year earlier.

I can't say with absolute certainty that PLEXes are currently being manipulated in the same manner. It could be that a bunch of big market players are buying them out and stockpiling them. It could be that less PLEXes are being bought because of difficult real-life economic times. It could also be that there is more ISK than materials being created, and the equilibrium point has been shifted.

And then both people starve.

oh ffs.

Oto says >>> A lack of PLEX supply isn't causing the rise in price. I don't know how many posts will be required for you to understand this.

Iam says >>> The fact remains that there are a limited number of people who can afford to spend extra money IRL and are willing to do so to get money in EVE, a limited amount they can spend, and a limited amount of ISK they actually need. Meanwhile, the number of people paying for the game by purchasing PLEX is rising rapidly.

K Suri SAID >>> Demand in game is obviously exceeding supply from RL.

Iam says >>> I don't understand how you can be so blitheringly dim.

Neither can I. I'm more confused now than when I started.

Probably fair to assume discretionary expenditure don't you think.

EDIT. Even then, so Seller doesn't starve isn't he likely to reduce prices to get Buyer to buy?

All of these are saying the same ******* thing, in a nearly unending hail of conceptual baseball bats hammering your God-forsaken skull:


1. Supply is more or less the same
2. Demand is skyrocketing, as is the wealth of certain groups of players
3. This is why PLEX prices are going up


It is you who are incapable of reading, even when you go to the trouble of highlighting the sa. (I did read your OP, it made my brain bleed a little bit.)



edit:

Obviously people are still buying them, you blithering mudkip.

Absolutely. But now it's not "It takes 28k and 4 years to learn THAT!?" simple anymore.

(I couldn't make Occupy Wall Street sorry - I was too busy making money in RL)

K Suri SAID >>> Demand in game is obviously exceeding supply from RL.

So looking past the anger it would have been easier to say "yes" when I asked the question before. I KNOW they're going up. I KNOW people are buying them. I KNOW SUPPLY is not keeping up with DEMAND.

I was asking WHY?!!?!??! (i.e. Was highsec income the sole contributing factor?)

No wonder the world's economy is so ******.

You are a douche.

get a job

(
It's a bit like this topic. A lot of people are getting rich using the games many options. The complaints are coming thick and fast that highseccers shouldn't be "allowed" to because they can do so with less risk.

I ask, why not join them? Instead of complaining and looking to change payouts etc. because YOU can't get it right!
)

Inflation has the effect of increasing prices due to demand because of greater disposable income.

I mentioned this in another post a few weeks ago. Imagine an auto industry that was limited only to the first consumer vehicle produced on a large scale: the Ford Model T. What would happen to this industry a few years down the line, after many factories go up, and the entirety of the world's population owns cars? Sure, some cars would be wrecked in crashes every year, and some would just break down on their own. But you see what I'm getting at, right?

Glad to see the overlooked aspect of the Broken Window Fallacy get some light shed upon it.

Well, that's one of the more important things that separates the EVE economy from the real-world economy: around here, the broken window is no longer a fallacy, but a key component

Eve needs some consumables, hungry mouths to feed, a derivatives market, a capital market, more places for excess wealth to go with high risk. True invention, player created content that can be sold in-game (massive consumer of time those would be.)

etc etc

You are a douche.

wtf is it with people whining how much is made by players in all the various ways in Eve, in particular L4 missions and Incursions?

Economics 101
- When you provide better income it drives demand because there is more disposable income being spent.
- When things are cheaper, people will also buy more, creating more demand.

Result
- Greater demand reduces supply thus increasing prices etc.

It's basic economics and we see it every day all over the world in RL.