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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3299
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 11:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:This is a legitimate question because its been proven that CCP has directly influenced the market artificially. As gross and inappropriate as it is, it is a reality. How are CCP supposed to operate without influencing the market? Everything they do affects the market in some way. Oh god. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
795
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 12:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
The only people that really care about PLEX prices are newer players struggling because they are trying to PLEX far too early.
In the end PLEX are ONLY in the game at all as a way to counter RMT so its pretty safe to assume they are not actually "player driven" and CCP will interfere when necessary. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
6542
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 12:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Look.
CCP has embraced Ayn Rand's warped view of a utopia created by people making decisions based on "enlightened self-interest".
In the real world, we have seen how well that works with object lessons like Somalia, Ethiopia, and to some extent Russia. The u.s is heading as fast as it can down that path with their "libertarianism = freedom" insanity.
CCP has decided if someone can corner the market on plexes, which requires something in the high hundreds of billions / low trillions, that is perfectly acceptable, even celebrated, within the Eve universe. We have dozens of acolytes of Ayn Rand rushing to defend this Eve culture as one that is "good for the game", every day on the forum, especially the ones ruthless enough to use the constructs provided by CCP to achieve a dominant position within the game.
But bottom line, the vast majority of humans, no matter how morally flawed we are as a species, recognizes that this kind of behavior should be abhorred, not celebrated. That is why Eve subs are stagnant, even falling (which CCP refuses to acknowledge as they won't release full CSM voting data). CCP has captured the full market of sick individuals that think crushing all others makes for great fun. There is not a lot of movement left in that that market segment. But on the other hand, there is large downside on driving people from the game, the ones that like to play a co-operative, or at the very least., a benign game.
As CCP continues down the path that the null sec cartels have laid out for them, CCP will learn that advertising "be the villain " might not be the best marketing strategy, sort of like New Coke was not that great.
Every once in a while a poster will give you a glimpse of their real world beliefs and suddenly their in game insanity makes all kinds of sense. I'm not one who believes 100% that how a person acts in game is how they act out of game, but for some people it's true.
The bolded part is an example. You display the false consensus crap in game all the time on these forums (when you pretend to be the appointed speaker of the high sec majority, which is somehow the majority AND the oppressed all at the same time).
And it seems you do it out of game too. Is it really so hard to understand that you are merely an individual like the rest of us and can speak for none other than yourself (unless you have the express consent of others to speak for them, like having been elected to something lol)? Is it really that hard to jsut say "I don't like things about CCP and EVE Online" rather than "the majority of us are victimised by CCP and we'll show them!" lol.
The underlined bit proves what I already know. It's not EVE that is the problem, it's you.
EVE was conceived as a competitive game. It allows 'benign co-operation' but demands competition. Yet you still chose to play it, despite the fact that you knew of should have known that you don't like competitive (dare i say "capitalistic") gameplay. Ironically it's your choosing to play it that has helped prop it up for so long. If you 'I hate EVE, capitalism, Ayn Rand and Freedom but maybe one day CCP will sell it to some socialist or anarchist developers and i'll like it' crowd would stop giving CCP money , what you want to happen may have happened a long time ago lol.
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stoicfaux
4849
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Posted - 2014.05.23 12:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
-1 a T2 PLEX BPO would be bad for the game.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22142
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 13:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Yes, no, none.
Xenuria wrote:This is a legitimate question because its been proven that CCP has directly influenced the market artificially. As gross and inappropriate as it is, it is a reality. Not really, no, so what?
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:But bottom line, the vast majority of humans, no matter how morally flawed we are as a species, recognizes that this kind of behavior should be abhorred, not celebrated. That is why Eve subs are stagnant, even falling (which CCP refuses to acknowledge as they won't release full CSM voting data). CCP has captured the full market of sick individuals that think crushing all others makes for great fun. There is not a lot of movement left in that that market segment. But on the other hand, there is large downside on driving people from the game, the ones that like to play a co-operative, or at the very least., a benign game. No, not really, no, not really, not really.
Quote:As CCP continues down the path that the null sec cartels have laid out for them, CCP will learn that advertising "be the villain " might not be the best marketing strategy, sort of like New Coke was not that great. No, no, yes it is, idiotic comparison.
There, that should take care of most the nonsense in this thread. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1910
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 13:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Guess the post was so bad even Tippia couldn't be bothered to give more than 2 word answers. CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE-á/ Dynamic New Eden |
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs Independent Operators Consortium
237
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 13:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tippia is just demonstrating how to post responses in an efficient manner for those of us reading the forums at work. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22143
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 13:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Guess the post was so bad even Tippia couldn't be bothered to give more than 2 word answers. The only reason it''s not just a single GÇ£noGÇ£ is because it either would confirm an incorrect negative claim, or be bad answer for a non-binary question.
Then again, I suppose GÇ£wrongGÇ¥ repeated 18 times would work tooGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Laughable Xhosa Girl
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 13:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Look.
CCP has embraced Ayn Rand's warped view of a utopia created by people making decisions based on "enlightened self-interest".
In the real world, we have seen how well that works with object lessons like Somalia, Ethiopia, and to some extent Russia. The u.s is heading as fast as it can down that path with their "libertarianism = freedom" insanity.
CCP has decided if someone can corner the market on plexes, which requires something in the high hundreds of billions / low trillions, that is perfectly acceptable, even celebrated, within the Eve universe. We have dozens of acolytes of Ayn Rand rushing to defend this Eve culture as one that is "good for the game", every day on the forum, especially the ones ruthless enough to use the constructs provided by CCP to achieve a dominant position within the game.
But bottom line, the vast majority of humans, no matter how morally flawed we are as a species, recognizes that this kind of behavior should be abhorred, not celebrated. That is why Eve subs are stagnant, even falling (which CCP refuses to acknowledge as they won't release full CSM voting data). CCP has captured the full market of sick individuals that think crushing all others makes for great fun. There is not a lot of movement left in that that market segment. But on the other hand, there is large downside on driving people from the game, the ones that like to play a co-operative, or at the very least., a benign game.
As CCP continues down the path that the null sec cartels have laid out for them, CCP will learn that advertising "be the villain " might not be the best marketing strategy, sort of like New Coke was not that great.
I love it when you talk dirty |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6487
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 13:40:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tippia for CSM 10. A candidate who truly believes in the sandbox. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
666
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 14:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
Are we back to treating Xenuria like people? |
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
564
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 15:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Are we back to treating Xenuria like people?
No. The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal
The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted
584
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 16:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Either way, while I do see the plex market as a gauge of the value of ISK, I don't see it as the central point of New Edens Economy. If you really want to crash the New Eden Economy, manipulate the tritanium market, which I believe is near impossible.
Basically this. If you really want to mess up the economy, you'll have to manipulate trit, which is insanely difficult. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Aralez
Epidemic. Nulli Secunda
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 17:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
Steve Celeste wrote:PLEX is just another ingame item that should be 100% in the domain of the player run economy.
This last wednesday there was another intevention on the PLEX market when we were about to break through towards 800m plex. It is absolutely disgusting that CCP directly intervenes in this way.
What's next? Spawning Tritanium on the market when the price goes up too fast? Locking down sovereignty when a single entity is about to take over all of nullsec?
The people that use their hard earned money to buy PLEX deserve to get as much ISK as possible for it. CCP, stop trying to force people into having to buy more PLEX for real money to get that shiny ship they want.
Plex intervention is scamming customers out of their money. It needs to stop immediately.
I remember when plex was roughly 365m a pop, it was so easy to plex accounts then, now its getting to a point where I got to decide if its worth the grind or just pay subscription fee's.. and I'm rocking 2 fewer accounts than before and I often gotta let my alt go inactive. Its a slippery slope and as much as people don't like ccp intervening with the market when it comes to something like plex which effects subscriptions and active users.. it does need to be monitored unfortunately |
Steve Celeste
Overdogs
281
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 17:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
People need to realize that EVE is not a free to play game.
Either you pay for the game or you have the market skill or lots of free time to grind for your monthly PLEX. Can't do either of those things? Then CCP should not subsidize you by artificially trying to keep PLEX prices down (and failing 9 out of 10 times I might add).
I really like that EVE is not free to play, it keeps the riff raff out. Once Dr. Enyo and his socialist "help the poor" policies are in the public sector where they belong, this back door of letting freeloaders in can be permanently closed.
Want to play for free and have an army of alts? Get good or get out. |
Maxpie
MUSE Buy-n-Large Metaphysical Utopian Society Enterprises
422
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 17:50:00 -
[46] - Quote
Send me all your isk and plex. I'll test it out for you and let you know the results.
No good deed goes unpunished |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
856
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Xenuria wrote:This is a legitimate question because its been proven that CCP has directly influenced the market artificially. As gross and inappropriate as it is, it is a reality. How are CCP supposed to operate without influencing the market? Everything they do affects the market in some way.
I always figured that the idea or at least the goal was to have a market run by and for players. With the reality that CCP CAN and WILL intervene to prevent economic collapse, it is no longer a player market then is it?
It's another concept that sounds nice expect for the above mention caveats.
Even if the item in question is not PLEX, there is still a very real possibility that CCP would intervene if that item caused enough problems. This is an upsetting and problematic concept for me because I want to think that players earn and loss isk of their own merit of failure.
CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22148
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:I always figured that the idea or at least the goal was to have a market run by and for players. With the reality that CCP CAN and WILL intervene to prevent economic collapse, it is no longer a player market then is it? Yes it is. One does not exclude the other. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Xenuria
The Scope Gallente Federation
856
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Xenuria wrote:I always figured that the idea or at least the goal was to have a market run by and for players. With the reality that CCP CAN and WILL intervene to prevent economic collapse, it is no longer a player market then is it? Yes it is. One does not exclude the other.
I disagree, they are in fact mutually exclusive.
A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable. CSM 9 Candidate Philanthropist Polymath Savant Hero |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1094
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Tippia wrote:Xenuria wrote:I always figured that the idea or at least the goal was to have a market run by and for players. With the reality that CCP CAN and WILL intervene to prevent economic collapse, it is no longer a player market then is it? Yes it is. One does not exclude the other. I disagree, they are in fact mutually exclusive. A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable.
Even if you were right, so what? Does it make you unhappy? If so, unsub. |
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Aralez
Epidemic. Nulli Secunda
10
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:33:00 -
[51] - Quote
Steve Celeste wrote:People need to realize that EVE is not a free to play game.
Either you pay for the game or you have the market skill or lots of free time to grind for your monthly PLEX. Can't do either of those things? Then CCP should not subsidize you by artificially trying to keep PLEX prices down (and failing 9 out of 10 times I might add).
I really like that EVE is not free to play, it keeps the riff raff out. Once Dr. Enyo and his socialist "help the poor" policies are in the public sector where they belong, this back door of letting freeloaders in can be permanently closed.
Want to play for free and have an army of alts? Get good or get out.
I do understand where your coming from but, really how fun would this game be if when you log in theres only 5-10k active pilots instead of 40-60k pilots on, because us ol' vetrans had the "get good or get out" mentality. wheres your noobs to kill,and your mass's that keep that market going.. Just saying them plex prices go over 800m and creep toward 1b per plex.. its gunna be rough times for alot of players.. And i personally pay for 1 year subscription and plex other accounts as needed. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1786
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:34:00 -
[52] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:
I disagree, they are in fact mutually exclusive.
A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable.
EVE is CCP's money maker. It would be silly of them NOT to have "back doors" into such things. You're never going to have a "pure" economy, because CCP has a compelling interest to step in and control things when crap gets out of whack.
We're playing a video game for funsies here, and if maintaining "fun" levels means we have to sacrifice the ultimate purity of a totally player controlled market, so be it. CCP has been pretty subtle about their tweaks so far, so there's not a whole lot of evidence warranting going off the deep end. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22148
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:I disagree, they are in fact mutually exclusive. Nope. In fact, they are inherently linked: if it wasn't a player-run market, dev intervention would not even be possible, much less necessary.
Quote:A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. CCP have artificially changed everything. That doesn't make it a player-controlled market GÇö it just makes it a player-controlled market that occasionally needs adjustment, which if it comes as shocking news to you, means you have no idea about how the market works.
In this case, it's not even particularly artificial or a change GÇö it's just a slight stir in the pot. They haven't set any prices or altered any mechanics or stats.
Quote:The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable. Not only is the potential for abuse zero, but also utterly pointless. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
5227
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:This year at fanfest a CCP dev said that when the plex market was peaking, he took it upon himself to artificially modify the game economy. I have a few questions about this.
1. If a player has enough in-game currency to buy all the plex on the Jita market, if that player within their right to do so?
2. If the same player puts all this plex into a cargo container and then blows up said container, has this player violated any rules?
3. Should any of the above listed events occur what safety measures are in place to prevent CCP from counter acting this large scale change in the market?
Yes, No, Potato
Also, I am outraged that you are trying to incite outrage at this outrageousless act.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
311
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:1. Yes 2. No 3. What measures have you taken in case aliens abduct you in the night?
3. What makes you think that this hasn't happened?
GÇ£No man ought to commit his life into the hands of that Physician, who is ignorant of Astrologic: because he is a Physician of no value.GÇ¥ - Nicholas Culpeper |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
844
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 19:59:00 -
[56] - Quote
I thought this was more or less why PLEX was already so high? |
Sibyyl
Brave Collective
1228
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 20:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Tippia wrote:Xenuria wrote:I always figured that the idea or at least the goal was to have a market run by and for players. With the reality that CCP CAN and WILL intervene to prevent economic collapse, it is no longer a player market then is it? Yes it is. One does not exclude the other. I disagree, they are in fact mutually exclusive. A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable. No system is perfect forever. Adjustments will always need to be made. Talking about live systems as if they are perfect socioeconomic models is pointless.
There's plenty of potential for abuse when currencies get adjusted and corporations get bailed out but it happens anyway. |
Marsha Mallow
693
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 20:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:A player controlled market cannot be such if there are back doors for CCP to artificially change things. The potential for abuse is not only really high but readily demonstrable. I love how you moan about Plex prices being adjusted, but I've never seen the slightest whiff of outrage when CCP or any of their resellers run a Plex offer. Or power-of-two, or any of the enhanced buddy features. No-one seems to be crying over BPOs still being NPC seeded either.
Plex doesn't follow the normal sandbox elements as it can be purchased out of game and directly ties in to subs. It should be monitored independently and have it's own regulation.
As far as we've been told, Plex price stabilisation is done is by releasing plex/goods from confiscated accounts. If you think carefully, assets removed via bans also falls into economic interference (and may well cause inflation) so releasing it back into the economy is not artificial, whereas holding it in confiscation is.
If you want to generate some outrage over something, try to find a less feeble topic/argument. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
75
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 21:37:00 -
[59] - Quote
Nice troll
(either you thought it out or too stupid to realize its epic trollness) already dead, just haven-¦t fallen over yet.... |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
1421
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 22:04:00 -
[60] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:This year at fanfest a CCP dev said that when the plex market was peaking, he took it upon himself to artificially modify the game economy. I have a few questions about this.
1. If a player has enough in-game currency to buy all the plex on the Jita market, if that player within their right to do so?
2. If the same player puts all this plex into a cargo container and then blows up said container, has this player violated any rules?
3. Should any of the above listed events occur what safety measures are in place to prevent CCP from counter acting this large scale change in the market?
Plex is a Fiat currency, ccp just create more and seed the market again. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
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