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Zortiander
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Posted - 2003.09.24 15:15:00 -
[1]
OK, in my last topic I got to know which ship I will be flying. Now is just the question with which defense against missiles I should go.
As I understand it I can either fit one large smartbomb and get my cap blown out of my ship in the matter of seconds, or I can fit one or two launchers with Defender Missiles. So here are my questions:
1.) Have you got experience with Defenders? How reliable are they? How effectif?
2.) Would you use 1 or 2 launchers for them, and if yes, then which?
3.) How many missiles per Torpedo do you need?
And finally the all-important-I-am-unexperienced question: how do they function? Do I have to target the missile? Or are they auto-targetting? Or should I get an auto-targetting module?
As always, thanks a lot for your feedback and your time.
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AlexisMachine
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Posted - 2003.09.24 21:43:00 -
[2]
Edited by: AlexisMachine on 24/09/2003 22:14:52
Edited by: AlexisMachine on 24/09/2003 22:12:09
Since the last patch i've been using defenders alot. They are an extremely effective anti-missile system. I cannot speak for their effectiveness against Torpedos, since i've not tried them VS. that yet. I would guess that you *can* take out torps, but it takes more than one defender. Can anyone speak to this?
Defenders are autotargetting which means they dont require any other special equipment and dont require *you* to target anything. Launch a defender when you have an incoming missile and it will intercept it.... easy as that. Ofcourse if you launch too late you may get hit by the missile... and i find this part annoying, the defender will just fly around till it runs out of fuel then detonate instead of locking onto a new hostile missile. Seems to me they should be smart enough to pick up a new target, but maybe that would unbalance them a bit.
I recommend 2 launchers (at least on most cruisers) and carry defenders as well as other missiles in your hold, switching between launcher load in space depending on what you're up against.
M-12 (or named variant) launchers seem to be a good fit for the defenders for RoF and capacity. M-12 carries 12 defenders and can most likely keep up with any other launcher to knock out incoming missiles in time. They do ok with heavier launchers (i.e H-50) also though, which is nicer if you want to use offensive missiles on occasion. The RoF is ofcourse a bit lower though, so if you *absolutely* want to make sure you are safe vs. hostile missiles, you're probably better off with the M-12. In some cases it's more efficient to use a slower launcher... say you dont want to be bothered with manually launching and use autorepeat. With M-12's you'll almost certainly stay safe... but you'll also probably waste a couple defenders against an enemy with a slower launch rate... not to mention running out of ammo and having to reload.
I've tried the smartbomb technique and find that it has too many disadvantages, Cap... clipping drones or other friendlies... forgetting to turn it off and blowing up your hard earned loot  etc...
I've no experience with using AT's to shoot down missiles... but some people seem to stick to that technique. Seems like alot more hassle and dangerous to me (your turrets wont be busy taking out the *source* of the missles as quick). TBH, i dont really know how AT's function. Does the AT automatically *fire* your turret for you in addition to targetting it?
IMO, defenders offer the best solution... but this is an interesting topic so i'd like to hear what others have to say, especially since the missile improvements in the last patch.
-A. Machine
Edit: I just noted your other post about the ship you'll be using (BS?). Please bear in mind my experience has all been Cruiser-based.
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Storme
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Posted - 2003.09.25 10:02:00 -
[3]
I believe that in the last patch, all missiles hit points were reduced so that one defender will now take out any missile/torpedo etc.
Certainly I have had npc cruisers tale out the a torpedo I fired at npc's (when I was testing them)
"I like these calm little moments before the Storm..." - Gary Oldman, Leon |
Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2003.09.25 16:08:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Bobby Wilson on 25/09/2003 16:34:26
Good to hear defenders are working properly. That were excellent units for a few months, then seemed to get all confused for awhile and hit you more often than incoming missiles.
Darn, with all these improvements to missiles I might have to give up my Domi and go to a Megathron...
To the original question, I would actually suggest that you consider an A-3 for Defenders. It'll put three in the air in a heatbeat on autorepeat. That's more for PvP I guess if you're facing a mass of missile boats, for NPCs the suggested m-12 should work fine. Larger launchers for defenders are a bad idea usually, as sometimes a pile of missiles just seems to come out of nowhere, and m and L launcher RoF just isn't fast enough.... Mostly it depends how full your cargo hold is and whether you're going to need that launcher for offensive missiles as well (A-3 can't hold heavy or larger missiles).
As for the autotargetter option, although I was a huge fan of this technique for a long time, increases in missile hitpoints, increases in missile max speed and the fairly bad tracking of L turrets makes this an impractical option for a battleship. Now if long range targetting skill had an affect on the autotargetter modules, allowing it to lock the incoming missile at say 15 KM, I'd change my tune. As it is you're getting a lock too late ATM to get off more than a shot or two, which with tracking may not be enough to kill the darned things.
 Originally by: Selim
Cool, congrats.
Oh, stupid idea by the way.
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The Major
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Posted - 2003.09.25 17:21:00 -
[5]
Defender missiles in an A3 will save your life and they only cost 60isk a shot now which is only twice the cost of a Rocket and a tiny fraction of a cruise/heavy/torpedo.
With missiles getting so popular again (I have the Sell transactions to prove it) you'd be a fool to leave home without them.
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Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2003.09.25 17:27:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Defender missiles in an A3 will save your life and they only cost 60isk a shot now which is only twice the cost of a Rocket and a tiny fraction of a cruise/heavy/torpedo.
60 Isk a shot? Is that mineral prices? Did they take out the Zydrine requirements?
Originally by: Selim
Cool, congrats.
Oh, stupid idea by the way.
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The Major
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Posted - 2003.09.26 09:47:00 -
[7]
60 isk a shot f you buy them from the right place.
For example: New Caldari ini The Forge.
Although I may have sold out by now but yes at 60isk each I'm still making a profit.
Denders only need trit, pyr, mex and nox I think. No Zydrine that's for sure.
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The Major
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Posted - 2003.09.26 12:44:00 -
[8]
I just checked and I have run out of Defender missiles so I can't guarentee you can find them at 60isk at the moment. But they are very cheap now.
Since the missile buff I've been unable to keep up with demand actually.
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Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.09.26 22:12:00 -
[9]
The auto-targeter method of killing missiles used to be good for Amarr cruisers (since they HAVE no missile slots). There's usually one or two Medium Beam Lasers on my Omen, while the Heavy beams fired at the target I'd use the Mediums to pick off missiles.
Now that missiles are faster, you'd need to be running away from the missile source or have a very fast lock time to use a targeter. But if you're not using that last high slot for a smartbomb, might as well put a targeter in... it's better than nothing. Battleships would be better off with a smartbomb unless they have an INSANE targeting speed boost though.
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