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Tron Aeolean
Brutor Collective
0
   |
Posted - 2014.05.25 17:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Apparently players are allowed to make fake buy orders on the market that cant be full-filled.
I'm no trader, I don't know how to read those fancy charts. Thinking that the marketplace could not provide false information, I saw what looked like a fairly simple way to make 200mil, There was a faction item for sale in contracts for 500mil, and a buy order on the MP for 700mil! My exact thought process was, "They cant fake a buy order! They must not know the value of their item!" Upon attempting to sell it, nothing happened, the order just sat there mocking me refusing to pay out.
Now I wont be able to afford plex and who knows when my bills will allow me enough extra cash to re sub (family's are expensive).
I wonder how many honest players who deposit and help fund the game have been forced to quit because of this scam.
I wonder how many different ways there are that CCP could improve this situation.
I wonder how little the scammes actually bring to the game. Both money and content wise.
Is there any hope that this is going to change in the future?
Research yields no official CCP response, can someone point me to where it is?
Screenshot:
http://minus.com/i/bqZkcBHCNmYLQ |
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
Create Alliance
270
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 17:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
can i get your stuff?
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Tron Aeolean
Brutor Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 17:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:can i get your stuff?
Didn't say I was quitting, But I wont be able to play for a few months! |
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
Create Alliance
270
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 17:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
i can hold them for you...
Troll for hire. Cheap prices. |
Tron Aeolean
Brutor Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 17:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Trolls are fast on these forums.  |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
486
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 18:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shrug. That wasn't even an margin trading scam.
Even though the offer is very likely a margin trading scam, the problem you encountered has nothing to do with margin trading. You couldn't sell to the order because of the minimum quantity required. Which is clearly stated in the market interface. Although you seem to have setup your windows so that the column is just barely visible. So, before crying about how the interface is lying to you, maybe you should read what the interface is actually saying.
That being said, if you could find the four items required, I'd expect the sale to still fail, because of the margin trading scam. |
Far Wanderer
Bank of Far
64
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 18:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tron Aeolean wrote:Trolls are fast on these forums. They're also easy to ignore.
The margin trading scam is part of the game. Always has been and always will be, because risk and uncertainty are part of what makes EvE the game it is.
Just think of your loss as a learning tax vis-a-vis an element of the game that you didn't understand as well as you thought you did.
Teachers deserve to be paid well, after all.
I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors.
--Elizabeth Norn |
Tron Aeolean
Brutor Collective
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 18:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
All-right, thanks guys. I see that I should have been able to catch it now.
Ill make a point when I am able to re-sub to learn how the marketplace works more thoroughly.
I still think that CCP could do something to warn players about this. Perhaps a section in the tutorial about the dangers of the marketplace. Maybe there is allready one and I just missed it.
Learning on my own cost me 15$. Seems kinda steep for a lesson, but what do I know eh?
|
PyroxQ
Pinpoint Pierce
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 19:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tron Aeolean wrote:...Perhaps a section in the tutorial about the dangers of the marketplace.
...
Welcome to a pvp-game. Everything is dangerous.
Also, much as in real life, if it looks to good to be true, it is most likely not true. If you learnt that lesson only now, and it was 15 bucks, Id say thats a freakin' bargain.
|
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
1047
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 19:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tron Aeolean wrote:All-right, thanks guys. I see that I should have been able to catch it now.
Ill make a point when I am able to re-sub to learn how the marketplace works more thoroughly.
I still think that CCP could do something to warn players about this. Perhaps a section in the tutorial about the dangers of the marketplace. Maybe there is allready one and I just missed it.
Learning on my own cost me 15$. Seems kinda steep for a lesson, but what do I know eh?
Other teachers in eve charge a far higher price.
The people that suicide gank 18 bill mission boats.
the people that charge a 500 mill security deposit to join a corp and then offer to move all your ships.
the isk doublers.
the awoxers
the corp thieves.
the gate campers.
the reverse awoxers
They teach people valuable lessons in research, corp security, dotlan/in game maps etc.
These lessons all come with price tags and are all easily avoided by a little basic thought/ research.
When you see something too good to be true it is wise in eve as in life to think about where the catch is hidden or even just accept that there is a catch and you can't find it. The most trusting might even try it after accepting they may lose what they are putting at risk.
The margin trade scam only works on people willing to suppress rational thought in thrall to their greed. some self reflection may be called for here.
Money at its root is a form of rationing.
When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Arec Bardwin
1388
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 19:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tron Aeolean wrote: There was a faction item for sale in contracts for 500mil, and a buy order on the MP for 700mil! You wouldn't happen to spot this contract being spammed in local would you?
|
Gwen Sotari
Free Conglomerate
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 20:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
If its too good to be true it probably is. there is no such thing as free isk. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1977
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 20:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gwen Sotari wrote:If its too good to be true it probably is. there is no such thing as free isk.
except the isk you get killing red crosses.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Gwen Sotari
Free Conglomerate
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 22:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
well that's not free as you're using resources to get it and it requires time |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2959
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 00:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
About 30% of contracts offered in local are scams (with 50% being 'non-deceptive, well priced' and 20% 'non-deceptive, very badly priced'). However, that 30% get posted dozens of times each because the hit rate is quite low.
Moral to the story: Don't trust contracts in local. If it looks like a trap, it's a trap. If it doesn't look like a trap - chances are you do not know the trap.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content.
www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
203
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 01:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
If someone is trying to sell you something for less than they could get by dumping it to a buy order in the same system, there is a 100.00% chance that it is a scam of some sort or another. If you can't figure out how the scam works, that just means the scammer knows more about bizarre market mechanics than you do. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
333
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 04:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bonus: Market is nothing but a BROKER for sales. The market posts orders for people who are buying. The guy was lying or unable to pay. Welcome to a very rational scam, if only you knew what a market was! |
voetius
BITB Support Services
225
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 08:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tron Aeolean wrote:
Research yields no official CCP response, can someone point me to where it is?
There is a dev post in the Features & Ideas forum that turned into a mini-threadnaught where CCP asked for people's views on this and what, if anything, needed to be done. |
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
233
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 15:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
OP: Good try selling that thing in Jita spamming local though. Did anyone actually buy it from you?
Move along! |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
376
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 18:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
TBH, people usually fall for buy order 'scams' or 'mistakes' only once in their entire EVE career.
It's unreasonable to expect new players, even smart ones, to know about the Margin Trading skill.
A small explanation/warning in the tutorial wouldn't hurt. If you skip it, or forget about it, then it's unquestionably your own fault.
'Enterpreneurs'  can still make money off of fools (there's always plenty) or by upping their game towards more subtle market manipulation. |
Misuzuchan
Push Industries
Push Interstellar Network
13
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 21:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
This could also be margin trading too though.
Lovely skill-book to let people put up a buy-order at a high price without having the ISK available.
This person goes to fulfil that order and it doesn't work because buyer doesn't have the ISK in his wallet! Then it goes into the sell-order queue instantly.
The best rule to remember is: If it's too good to be true, it probably is.
My rule for marketing involves only dealing with items of which 100+ get shifted a day, and that have more than 2 buy and sell orders.
Better luck next time. :) |
Tron Aeolean
Brutor Collective
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 21:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Im not a new player by any means. Im just not a trader. I agree scams should be allowed, as a matter of fact ive taken part in corporate espionage, so dont think Im some goodie too-shoe's who knows nothing. The thing that got me is that I was warned of all the other kinds of scams from the tutorial and was able to avoid them my entire play-through. I wasent warned about this.
And no it wasent from local, I saw the item listed in the contracts, and subsequent market lookup showed probable profit. I had no contact with other players. Just me, myself, and a wee bit of dumbass. lol
If I had taken the time to research the items value properly I would have been able to see it for what it is. Sadly I immediately took it at face value and assumed someone made a mistake.
Witch leaves me to wonder, how do you tell the difference between someone who has simply made a mistake in their pricing vs a scam?
Also lets say I legitimately want to buy something at an absurdly overpriced amount, would I then have a harder time finding a seller because people would assume my orders are a scam?
I just feel theres got to be something that could be done to make this whole thing better for everyone. I have no clue how though >_< |
munitqua
Perkone
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 13:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Haha i got scammed the exact same way, this cost me 800m
At that time i could not even afford the 800m so i borrowed 300m from a friend.
When i figured out it was a scam, my heart stopped for a moment, but I wasnt mad. I thought: that's EVE and I loved the game even more ever since. I did smoke 5 sigarettes to calm me down haha, good times. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
15662
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 13:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Oh look it's this thread again
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
350125GO
Transcendent Sedition
Protean Concept
62
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 15:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tron Aeolean wrote:
Witch leaves me to wonder, how do you tell the difference between someone who has simply made a mistake in their pricing vs a scam?
Mistakes are made in contracts, but not that often. You spot them by watching contracts continually for a long period of time and until you learn the market. I scrutinize every contract I ever accept, two-three times to make sure I'm not missing anything.
If you want to make money on the market, contracts usually aren't the place to look.
You're young, you'll adjust.
I'm old, I'll get used to it. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
285
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 15:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
350125GO wrote:
If you want to make money on the market, contracts usually aren't the place to look.
I would have to strongly disagree with that, you just need to know what to look for. What you've said is like advising people not to trade on the market because of margin scams or manipulation.
.
|
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Ineluctable.
797
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 16:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tron Aeolean wrote:I wonder how many honest players who deposit and help fund the game have been forced to quit because of this scam.
They couldn't as the situation is perfect. Smart people can take money from the dumb people.
Tron Aeolean wrote:I wonder how little the scammes actually bring to the game. Both money and content wise.
Probably more then the clueless carebears who fall for it and then rage quit like 6 year olds. 
DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS | Coreli Corporation, Serpentis Loyalists
DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS | Small gang PVP & drug production
DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS | Ship Replacement program
DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS | Multiple roaming fleets per day |
350125GO
Transcendent Sedition
Protean Concept
62
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 16:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:350125GO wrote:
If you want to make money on the market, contracts usually aren't the place to look.
I would have to strongly disagree with that, you just need to know what to look for. What you've said is like advising people not to trade on the market because of margin scams or manipulation.
I updated my post to clarify it. was missing a crucial part of a sentence. 
Wasn't meaning to warn off contracts, just meaning to say that they're just like the market, you really need to know what you're trading in before you'll be able to reduce risk.
You're young, you'll adjust.
I'm old, I'll get used to it. |
Tron Aeolean
Brutor Collective
3
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 17:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Amazingly I left the item on the marketplace at the high price you can see in the screenshot, and someone actually purchased it!
I think my jaw may have literally hit the floor when I noticed lol. |
Zahara Cody
Imperial Corrections Service.
113
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 17:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
I have a trillion isk that says contracts are a good way to make isk.  |
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