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Eve Non-Consentual PvP is just State Changing Tactics

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The Goblin	Posted - 2006.06.06 06:40:00 - [1] Im sick of these things. It seems the majority of non-consensual pvp is all about these periods of state changes causing you to become invulnerable repeatedly. = Warping = Jumping = Instas = Docking = Undocking It is entirely possible to take a ship out and using these periods of invulnerability, to take it almost anywhere, in any situation, and not die. Now state changes are good when they're necessary but players being what they are push these to the limits and even further and turn what was a reasonable protection against exploitation, into another form of exploitation, just as bad the original thing which caused these invulnerability changes in the first place. Id really like to see CCP do something constructive to address these issues and put them to bed once and for all. Docking / Undocking - I would like to see undocking invulnerability be more interactive. I really hate clicking, clicking, clicking, clicking repeatedly until suddenly the target warps away. I dont want to see my target until I can target it and I dont want my target to be able to do anything in space until I also can do something to my target in space. I would like to see a delay on docking. Its rediculous to see a ship hit a station at some unfathomable speed and then suddenly, without injury, vanish in an instant. Jumping - The wonderful feeling I get when I warp scramble, web and start to kill a ship only to have it magically be picked up by the gate and transported to another system is horse poo. Its almost as great as the feeling I get to see an industrial ship hit the gate harmlessly at 153432424234 km/ph and then vanish into thin air after my friends on the other side of the system failed to stop it by sticking -4 Warp on it. Its a terrible system of WCS overload, instajumping and gate crawling to 2.5k and safety. Terrible. Instas - Rediculous things. I think it would be preferable to everyone if we simply had a system which put us straight at jump range. Taking away instas has got to be only beneficial for the server as a whole considering the resource intensive things they are. Seriously. Implement some skill, call it Warp Precision which will put you 20% closer to the gate each level. Kill that mammoth insta-database you have there. Maybe slow time to warp up by 50% to balance the system or something but do something please.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.06 06:43:00 - [2] Originally by: The Goblin Docking / Undocking - I would like to see undocking invulnerability be more interactive. I really hate clicking, clicking, clicking, clicking repeatedly until suddenly the target warps away. I dont want to see my target until I can target it and I dont want my target to be able to do anything in space until I also can do something to my target in space. I would like to see a delay on docking. Its rediculous to see a ship hit a station at some unfathomable speed and then suddenly, without injury, vanish in an instant. Lag. Quote: Jumping - The wonderful feeling I get when I warp scramble, web and start to kill a ship only to have it magically be picked up by the gate and transported to another system is horse poo. Its almost as great as the feeling I get to see an industrial ship hit the gate harmlessly at 153432424234 km/ph and then vanish into thin air after my friends on the other side of the system failed to stop it by sticking -4 Warp on it. Its a terrible system of WCS overload, instajumping and gate crawling to 2.5k and safety. Terrible. Adapt. Quote: Instas - Rediculous things. I think it would be preferable to everyone if we simply had a system which put us straight at jump range. Taking away instas has got to be only beneficial for the server as a whole considering the resource intensive things they are. Seriously. Implement some skill, call it Warp Precision which will put you 20% closer to the gate each level. Kill that mammoth insta-database you have there. Maybe slow time to warp up by 50% to balance the system or something but do something please. Wait for Kali. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
Vincent Gaines	Posted - 2006.06.06 06:44:00 - [3] so you basically want an "i win" button?
Dao 2	Posted - 2006.06.06 06:48:00 - [4] stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that Also the gal
SengH	Posted - 2006.06.06 06:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Dao 2 stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles He has a point though... dictors dont stop ppl if they log off before they decloak on the other side of the gate.
SonOTassadar	Posted - 2006.06.06 06:58:00 - [6] Originally by: Dao 2 stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles 3 replies in and the discussion is already over. I'm impressed. ___________________________
Moghydin	Posted - 2006.06.06 07:16:00 - [7] Some of the OP points are valid, some are just whining IMHO. We really shouldn't see a ship undocking only to get a steady stream of "target invulnerable" messages. It only should appear on the overview when you can lock it. The same goes with warping in. How come that when the ship comes out of warp, I still have loads of failed lock attampts and in-between the ship dissapeares. Wouldn't it be nice to have a small icon on the overview, indicating, whether the ship is still in warp or it's completely out of warp. To the other ppoints of the OP. Looks like whining. Without instas in many regions the traffic would mostly stop. No one will travel if they know that they are in hostile territory and simply can not pass through a hostile camp. Same goes with WCS. Seeing a stronger enemy shouldn't mean certain wtfpwnt.
Jon Hawkes	Posted - 2006.06.06 07:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Jon Hawkes on 06/06/2006 07:38:26 Have you considered that the Industrial ship fitted with 4+ WCS may actually be specifically fitted to avoid being scrambled at gates? Complaining that haulers can escape being ganked by fitting WCS is like complaining that other combat pilots can shoot back by fitting guns...
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.06 07:47:00 - [9] Originally by: SengH Originally by: Dao 2 stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles He has a point though... dictors dont stop ppl if they log off before they decloak on the other side of the gate. That is its own problem, doesn't require a delay jumping or docking. They can fix the invulnera-frieghter while they are at it
Marie Elise	Posted - 2006.06.06 07:57:00 - [10] Truth be told the only time you complain about instas is when an easy prey gets away. Cause i dont see people claiming for them to be removed once you are taking advantage of them :3 In other words, you want your pirate job done easier for you.. im going to say.. NO seriously god damn pirates want everything on a silver plater.

Novarei	Posted - 2006.06.06 08:14:00 - [11] dam noobs +-----------------------------------------------+ lol
Dinique	Posted - 2006.06.06 08:49:00 - [12] I like instas. If you are prepared for a system you are in, they give you a great benefit, if you're not, you're a sitting duck while heading to the gate. If a system is hostile, and you dont have instas, and you're in anything slower than a frigate, you're in trouble. _____ There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones
Novarei	Posted - 2006.06.06 08:54:00 - [13] i think one way to make instas more fair would be to not allow them to be traded... That way everyone has to go out there and take the inital risk. +-----------------------------------------------+ lol
Samurai Saija	Posted - 2006.06.06 09:07:00 - [14] Every once in a while we get these stantard threads on this forums. Guess it was just matter or time before someone come with nerf instas, wcs or dock/redock whine, because they can't get any kills... But all in one thread. Impressive
infraX	Posted - 2006.06.06 09:26:00 - [15] Remove instas, make the default warp in something short like 5km (only leave 2.5km travel) and make it so that you can't use a jump gate while warp scrambled. That's the sort of idea I would like to build on... Comments?
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.06 09:29:00 - [16] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 06/06/2006 09:30:47 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Adapt. Its not possible to adapt to this without using multiple people or multiple accounts. 'Adapting' by making it impossible to solo or small group and just possible with ganking is a very poor solution or not a solution at all. The solution is to balance the game and its modules. Its not possible to adapt to this because the game mechanics dont allow it. Originally by: Vincent Gaines so you basically want an "i win" button? What about a [I Caught You Now Fight Button]. Call me crazy. Wanting to PvP in a PvP game. What next? Originally by: Dao 2 stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles They dont work in 0.1 to 1.0 and in corporation wars and are not the answer to every single engagement even when your trying to kill a specific ship. Originally by: Dinique I like instas. If you are prepared for a system you are in, they give you a great benefit, if you're not, you're a sitting duck while heading to the gate. If a system is hostile, and you dont have instas, and you're in anything slower than a frigate, you're in trouble. Yeah thats called bad luck and its part of the game.
Dinique	Posted - 2006.06.06 09:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Novarei i think one way to make instas more fair would be to not allow them to be traded... That way everyone has to go out there and take the inital risk. I would be fine with that. TBH copying instas is more effort than making em :P _____ There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.06.06 09:48:00 - [18] EvE's combat system could use a lot of lubbing imo. Dock invulnerability / logoff from gate exits, ease of safespotting (and difficulty find ss'd peeps) / short aggro timers on capital ships just to name some of the more obvious ones. A question to the lady who quotes herself in her sig. "What will kali magically fix from all of this?"
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.06.06 10:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Infinity Ziona [What about a [I Caught You Now Fight Button]. Call me crazy. Wanting to PvP in a PvP game. What next? Yeah, I am sure an industrial would put up quite the fight. And please get off your high horse that this is a pure PvP game. It is not. Some people just want to TRAVEL through lowsec. If you make that impossible by forcing every encounter to end in a fight, you might as well remove lowsec completely and have only 0.0 and highsec. Plus 99% of the 'PvPers' that I see (mind you, theyre all lowsec pirates, not the real 0.0 thing) have no interest whatsoever in a real fight anyway. They just want to PK, and any time odds are even close to even, they use the game mechanics (the very same ones they complain about when used by 'carebears') to evade having to actually fight. Imho everything is fine, the problem is not the game mechanics but the widespread mentality to only do combat with overwhelming odds. --------- Originally by: General Apocalypse the game is very well balanced
Dinique	Posted - 2006.06.06 10:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Infinity Ziona [What about a [I Caught You Now Fight Button]. Call me crazy. Wanting to PvP in a PvP game. What next? Yeah, I am sure an industrial would put up quite the fight. And please get off your high horse that this is a pure PvP game. I'd say its supposed to be. But people incorrectly assume that the only form of PvP is combat, it's not. _____ There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones

Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.06.06 10:23:00 - [21] Originally by: The Goblin Jumping - The wonderful feeling I get when I warp scramble, web and start to kill a ship only to have it magically be picked up by the gate and transported to another system is horse poo. Its almost as great as the feeling I get to see an industrial ship hit the gate harmlessly at 153432424234 km/ph and then vanish into thin air after my friends on the other side of the system failed to stop it by sticking -4 Warp on it. Its a terrible system of WCS overload, instajumping and gate crawling to 2.5k and safety. Terrible. Ram it next time, repetedly. A 4 Stab Industrial isnt going to be the most nimble thing in existance. Ram it, and keep ramming it so it cant align.
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2006.06.06 10:31:00 - [22] I partly agree with the OP here. the other night I jumped my two account's into a mission, as soon as the first stopped warping, I attempted to lock the second. No dice. Even though both ships were considered out of warp, I could not lock it for at least 5 seconds. It's be nice to see ships with some sort of glow/overview setting when they are unlockable.
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.06.06 10:45:00 - [23] Its all whinaage here...all these things were placed in the game, to protect players from m0o and M3G4 three years ago.... If you wanted to kill people as they undock you should have been here three years ago.... This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it.
Dan Grommel	Posted - 2006.06.06 14:54:00 - [24] Originally by: The Goblin = Warping = Jumping = Instas = Docking = Undocking It is entirely possible to take a ship out and using these periods of invulnerability, to take it almost anywhere, in any situation, and not die. True.
Chesty LaRoo	Posted - 2006.06.06 15:07:00 - [25] Edited by: Chesty LaRoo on 06/06/2006 15:08:19
Dinique	Posted - 2006.06.06 15:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Flyyn Its all whinaage here...all these things were placed in the game, to protect players from m0o and M3G4 three years ago.... If you wanted to kill people as they undock you should have been here three years ago.... Just imagine the whine thread the OP will come up with if it happened to him. _____ There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones
Zirator	Posted - 2006.06.06 15:41:00 - [27] Regardless of the points the OP makes I think that the OP should post with his main. Cause I really don't believe that a player that started playing today allready has issues about not getting kills in PVP-combat.
Gary Hagon	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:20:00 - [28] Well thread like this do become a bit tedious but there are actually some intresting replys in this one so here is another I hope. Point 1 is when undocking u can do somthing to that plump target at the same time he does.As soon as he move or activates any module when undocking he loses his invonerability from station. Secondly. What you are saying is that your ship should be able to outmatch his ship at all times so he cant escape...hmm that seems fair. i lost my occultor the other day,,around 70 mill woth of ship to gankers. I didnt moan. It was masterfully done using 3 ships and 2 of them had energy destabalizers on wich prevented me making it back to the gate with my MWD even though I had cap boosters on board afetr realising my WCS had been overloaded.Point being, yes there is pvp in this game but it is also a multplayer game. Stop moaning and find some freinds to make your ganking unescapable like the one I walked into. ps you gankers ive got some nice kill rights on you guys cu soon. (was a nice job by the way you gits) And last but by no means least I pick up on a point that was mentioned in an earlier post wich was exactly right. After an attempted gank on me failed I Went back to system with my covert ops ship flew to gankers spot and bookmarked it after he left. Went back half an hour later in my raven to give him a good slappin and guess what yep he had a boat load of WCS on and ran away. Yes the very thing the pirates are moaning about they are using to evade combat with anything that represents any sort of threat. My last point is gate gankers are not real pirates,,some are well organized true but they could not stand the heat of a real battle in 0.0 wich is why they hang aroung 0.4 sytems like flys around s**t. I doubt they ever get a real good loot drop from any of the indys they manage to pop. Please stop moaning about the tools that are being used to evade you then using them urselfs. If you really want this PVP you keep spouting about why not go 2 0.0 where there are lots of people just itching for it. Oh yes it cos you want no risk pvp with indies. Does that really count? I wonder. Take care out there.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:33:00 - [29] people who live in 0.0 really need to remember that a lot of their toys don't work in low-sec/high-sec.
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.06.06 17:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Zirator Regardless of the points the OP makes I think that the OP should post with his main. Cause I really don't believe that a player that started playing today allready has issues about not getting kills in PVP-combat. What do you do in RL? CIA? FBI? NSA? FAA(runs and hides under a rock)? serious you check everyone out here? This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it.



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