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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
The Goblin
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Posted - 2006.06.06 06:40:00 -
[1]
Im sick of these things. It seems the majority of non-consensual pvp is all about these periods of state changes causing you to become invulnerable repeatedly.
= Warping
= Jumping
= Instas
= Docking
= Undocking
It is entirely possible to take a ship out and using these periods of invulnerability, to take it almost anywhere, in any situation, and not die.
Now state changes are good when they're necessary but players being what they are push these to the limits and even further and turn what was a reasonable protection against exploitation, into another form of exploitation, just as bad the original thing which caused these invulnerability changes in the first place.
Id really like to see CCP do something constructive to address these issues and put them to bed once and for all.
Docking / Undocking -
I would like to see undocking invulnerability be more interactive. I really hate clicking, clicking, clicking, clicking repeatedly until suddenly the target warps away. I dont want to see my target until I can target it and I dont want my target to be able to do anything in space until I also can do something to my target in space.
I would like to see a delay on docking. Its rediculous to see a ship hit a station at some unfathomable speed and then suddenly, without injury, vanish in an instant.
Jumping -
The wonderful feeling I get when I warp scramble, web and start to kill a ship only to have it magically be picked up by the gate and transported to another system is horse poo. Its almost as great as the feeling I get to see an industrial ship hit the gate harmlessly at 153432424234 km/ph and then vanish into thin air after my friends on the other side of the system failed to stop it by sticking -4 Warp on it. Its a terrible system of WCS overload, instajumping and gate crawling to 2.5k and safety. Terrible.
Instas -
Rediculous things. I think it would be preferable to everyone if we simply had a system which put us straight at jump range. Taking away instas has got to be only beneficial for the server as a whole considering the resource intensive things they are.
Seriously. Implement some skill, call it Warp Precision which will put you 20% closer to the gate each level. Kill that mammoth insta-database you have there. Maybe slow time to warp up by 50% to balance the system or something but do something please.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.06 06:43:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: The Goblin
Docking / Undocking -
I would like to see undocking invulnerability be more interactive. I really hate clicking, clicking, clicking, clicking repeatedly until suddenly the target warps away. I dont want to see my target until I can target it and I dont want my target to be able to do anything in space until I also can do something to my target in space.
I would like to see a delay on docking. Its rediculous to see a ship hit a station at some unfathomable speed and then suddenly, without injury, vanish in an instant.
Lag.
Quote:
Jumping -
The wonderful feeling I get when I warp scramble, web and start to kill a ship only to have it magically be picked up by the gate and transported to another system is horse poo. Its almost as great as the feeling I get to see an industrial ship hit the gate harmlessly at 153432424234 km/ph and then vanish into thin air after my friends on the other side of the system failed to stop it by sticking -4 Warp on it. Its a terrible system of WCS overload, instajumping and gate crawling to 2.5k and safety. Terrible.
Adapt.
Quote:
Instas -
Rediculous things. I think it would be preferable to everyone if we simply had a system which put us straight at jump range. Taking away instas has got to be only beneficial for the server as a whole considering the resource intensive things they are.
Seriously. Implement some skill, call it Warp Precision which will put you 20% closer to the gate each level. Kill that mammoth insta-database you have there. Maybe slow time to warp up by 50% to balance the system or something but do something please.
Wait for Kali. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
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Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.06.06 06:44:00 -
[3]
so you basically want an "i win" button?
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2006.06.06 06:48:00 -
[4]
stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles
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NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
Also the gal |
SengH
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Posted - 2006.06.06 06:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Dao 2
stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles
He has a point though... dictors dont stop ppl if they log off before they decloak on the other side of the gate.
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SonOTassadar
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Posted - 2006.06.06 06:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dao 2
stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles
3 replies in and the discussion is already over. I'm impressed.
___________________________ |
Moghydin
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Posted - 2006.06.06 07:16:00 -
[7]
Some of the OP points are valid, some are just whining IMHO. We really shouldn't see a ship undocking only to get a steady stream of "target invulnerable" messages. It only should appear on the overview when you can lock it. The same goes with warping in. How come that when the ship comes out of warp, I still have loads of failed lock attampts and in-between the ship dissapeares. Wouldn't it be nice to have a small icon on the overview, indicating, whether the ship is still in warp or it's completely out of warp.
To the other ppoints of the OP. Looks like whining. Without instas in many regions the traffic would mostly stop. No one will travel if they know that they are in hostile territory and simply can not pass through a hostile camp. Same goes with WCS. Seeing a stronger enemy shouldn't mean certain wtfpwnt.
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Jon Hawkes
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Posted - 2006.06.06 07:38:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jon Hawkes on 06/06/2006 07:38:26
Have you considered that the Industrial ship fitted with 4+ WCS may actually be specifically fitted to avoid being scrambled at gates?
Complaining that haulers can escape being ganked by fitting WCS is like complaining that other combat pilots can shoot back by fitting guns... 
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.06 07:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Dao 2
stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles
He has a point though... dictors dont stop ppl if they log off before they decloak on the other side of the gate.
That is its own problem, doesn't require a delay jumping or docking.
They can fix the invulnera-frieghter while they are at it 
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Marie Elise
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Posted - 2006.06.06 07:57:00 -
[10]
Truth be told the only time you complain about instas is when an easy prey gets away.
Cause i dont see people claiming for them to be removed once you are taking advantage of them :3
In other words, you want your pirate job done easier for you.. im going to say.. NO
seriously god damn pirates want everything on a silver plater.
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Novarei
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Posted - 2006.06.06 08:14:00 -
[11]
dam noobs
+-----------------------------------------------+
lol |
Dinique
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Posted - 2006.06.06 08:49:00 -
[12]
I like instas.
If you are prepared for a system you are in, they give you a great benefit, if you're not, you're a sitting duck while heading to the gate.
If a system is hostile, and you dont have instas, and you're in anything slower than a frigate, you're in trouble.
_____
There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones
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Novarei
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Posted - 2006.06.06 08:54:00 -
[13]
i think one way to make instas more fair would be to not allow them to be traded... That way everyone has to go out there and take the inital risk.
+-----------------------------------------------+
lol |
Samurai Saija
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Posted - 2006.06.06 09:07:00 -
[14]
Every once in a while we get these stantard threads on this forums. Guess it was just matter or time before someone come with nerf instas, wcs or dock/redock whine, because they can't get any kills... But all in one thread. Impressive
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infraX
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Posted - 2006.06.06 09:26:00 -
[15]
Remove instas, make the default warp in something short like 5km (only leave 2.5km travel) and make it so that you can't use a jump gate while warp scrambled. That's the sort of idea I would like to build on...
Comments?
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2006.06.06 09:29:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 06/06/2006 09:30:47
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Adapt.
Its not possible to adapt to this without using multiple people or multiple accounts. 'Adapting' by making it impossible to solo or small group and just possible with ganking is a very poor solution or not a solution at all. The solution is to balance the game and its modules. Its not possible to adapt to this because the game mechanics dont allow it.
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
so you basically want an "i win" button?
What about a [I Caught You Now Fight Button]. Call me crazy. Wanting to PvP in a PvP game. What next?
Originally by: Dao 2
stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles
They dont work in 0.1 to 1.0 and in corporation wars and are not the answer to every single engagement even when your trying to kill a specific ship.
Originally by: Dinique
I like instas.
If you are prepared for a system you are in, they give you a great benefit, if you're not, you're a sitting duck while heading to the gate.
If a system is hostile, and you dont have instas, and you're in anything slower than a frigate, you're in trouble.
Yeah thats called bad luck and its part of the game.
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Dinique
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Posted - 2006.06.06 09:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Novarei
i think one way to make instas more fair would be to not allow them to be traded... That way everyone has to go out there and take the inital risk.
I would be fine with that. TBH copying instas is more effort than making em :P
_____
There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.06.06 09:48:00 -
[18]
EvE's combat system could use a lot of lubbing imo.
Dock invulnerability / logoff from gate exits, ease of safespotting (and difficulty find ss'd peeps) / short aggro timers on capital ships just to name some of the more obvious ones.
A question to the lady who quotes herself in her sig. "What will kali magically fix from all of this?"
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Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.06.06 10:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
[What about a [I Caught You Now Fight Button]. Call me crazy. Wanting to PvP in a PvP game. What next?
Yeah, I am sure an industrial would put up quite the fight.
And please get off your high horse that this is a pure PvP game. It is not. Some people just want to TRAVEL through lowsec. If you make that impossible by forcing every encounter to end in a fight, you might as well remove lowsec completely and have only 0.0 and highsec.
Plus 99% of the 'PvPers' that I see (mind you, theyre all lowsec pirates, not the real 0.0 thing) have no interest whatsoever in a real fight anyway. They just want to PK, and any time odds are even close to even, they use the game mechanics (the very same ones they complain about when used by 'carebears') to evade having to actually fight.
Imho everything is fine, the problem is not the game mechanics but the widespread mentality to only do combat with overwhelming odds.
---------
Originally by: General Apocalypse
the game is very well balanced
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Dinique
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Posted - 2006.06.06 10:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
[What about a [I Caught You Now Fight Button]. Call me crazy. Wanting to PvP in a PvP game. What next?
Yeah, I am sure an industrial would put up quite the fight.
And please get off your high horse that this is a pure PvP game.
I'd say its supposed to be. But people incorrectly assume that the only form of PvP is combat, it's not.
_____
There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.06.06 10:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: The Goblin
Jumping -
The wonderful feeling I get when I warp scramble, web and start to kill a ship only to have it magically be picked up by the gate and transported to another system is horse poo. Its almost as great as the feeling I get to see an industrial ship hit the gate harmlessly at 153432424234 km/ph and then vanish into thin air after my friends on the other side of the system failed to stop it by sticking -4 Warp on it. Its a terrible system of WCS overload, instajumping and gate crawling to 2.5k and safety. Terrible.
Ram it next time, repetedly. A 4 Stab Industrial isnt going to be the most nimble thing in existance.
Ram it, and keep ramming it so it cant align.
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2006.06.06 10:31:00 -
[22]
I partly agree with the OP here.
the other night I jumped my two account's into a mission, as soon as the first stopped warping, I attempted to lock the second. No dice. Even though both ships were considered out of warp, I could not lock it for at least 5 seconds.
It's be nice to see ships with some sort of glow/overview setting when they are unlockable.
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Flyyn
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Posted - 2006.06.06 10:45:00 -
[23]
Its all whinaage here...all these things were placed in the game, to protect players from m0o and M3G4 three years ago....
If you wanted to kill people as they undock you should have been here three years ago....
This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it. |
Dan Grommel
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Posted - 2006.06.06 14:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: The Goblin
= Warping
= Jumping
= Instas
= Docking
= Undocking
It is entirely possible to take a ship out and using these periods of invulnerability, to take it almost anywhere, in any situation, and not die.
 True.
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Chesty LaRoo
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Posted - 2006.06.06 15:07:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Chesty LaRoo on 06/06/2006 15:08:19
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Dinique
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Posted - 2006.06.06 15:12:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Flyyn
Its all whinaage here...all these things were placed in the game, to protect players from m0o and M3G4 three years ago....
If you wanted to kill people as they undock you should have been here three years ago....
Just imagine the whine thread the OP will come up with if it happened to him.
_____
There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones
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Zirator
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Posted - 2006.06.06 15:41:00 -
[27]
Regardless of the points the OP makes I think that the OP should post with his main. Cause I really don't believe that a player that started playing today allready has issues about not getting kills in PVP-combat.
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Gary Hagon
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Posted - 2006.06.06 16:20:00 -
[28]
Well thread like this do become a bit tedious but there are actually some intresting replys in this one so here is another I hope.
Point 1 is when undocking u can do somthing to that plump target at the same time he does.As soon as he move or activates any module when undocking he loses his invonerability from station.
Secondly. What you are saying is that your ship should be able to outmatch his ship at all times so he cant escape...hmm that seems fair. i lost my occultor the other day,,around 70 mill woth of ship to gankers. I didnt moan. It was masterfully done using 3 ships and 2 of them had energy destabalizers on wich prevented me making it back to the gate with my MWD even though I had cap boosters on board afetr realising my WCS had been overloaded.Point being, yes there is pvp in this game but it is also a multplayer game. Stop moaning and find some freinds to make your ganking unescapable like the one I walked into.
ps you gankers ive got some nice kill rights on you guys cu soon. (was a nice job by the way you gits)
And last but by no means least I pick up on a point that was mentioned in an earlier post wich was exactly right. After an attempted gank on me failed I Went back to system with my covert ops ship flew to gankers spot and bookmarked it after he left. Went back half an hour later in my raven to give him a good slappin and guess what yep he had a boat load of WCS on and ran away. Yes the very thing the pirates are moaning about they are using to evade combat with anything that represents any sort of threat.
My last point is gate gankers are not real pirates,,some are well organized true but they could not stand the heat of a real battle in 0.0 wich is why they hang aroung 0.4 sytems like flys around s**t. I doubt they ever get a real good loot drop from any of the indys they manage to pop. Please stop moaning about the tools that are being used to evade you then using them urselfs. If you really want this PVP you keep spouting about why not go 2 0.0 where there are lots of people just itching for it. Oh yes it cos you want no risk pvp with indies. Does that really count? I wonder.
Take care out there.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.06.06 16:33:00 -
[29]
people who live in 0.0 really need to remember that a lot of their toys don't work in low-sec/high-sec.
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Flyyn
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Posted - 2006.06.06 17:01:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zirator
Regardless of the points the OP makes I think that the OP should post with his main. Cause I really don't believe that a player that started playing today allready has issues about not getting kills in PVP-combat.
What do you do in RL? CIA? FBI? NSA? FAA(runs and hides under a rock)?
serious you check everyone out here?
This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it. |
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Gary Hagon
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Posted - 2006.06.06 17:01:00 -
[31]
I was of the understanding that if u have someone warp scrambled even if they log they cannot warp and they are at you mercey.Please correct me if im wrong.
Thanks
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Gary Hagon
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Posted - 2006.06.06 17:01:00 -
[32]
I was of the understanding that if u have someone warp scrambled even if they log they cannot warp and they are at you mercey.Please correct me if im wrong.
Thanks
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Death Merchant
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Posted - 2006.06.06 17:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sarmaul
people who live in 0.0 really need to remember that a lot of their toys don't work in low-sec/high-sec.
Thats why we shouldn't go there
Signature removed - File size too large.Laurelin |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.06 17:04:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 06/06/2006 17:04:44
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.06 17:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 06/06/2006 09:30:47
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Adapt.
Its not possible to adapt to this without using multiple people or multiple accounts. 'Adapting' by making it impossible to solo or small group and just possible with ganking is a very poor solution or not a solution at all. The solution is to balance the game and its modules. Its not possible to adapt to this because the game mechanics dont allow it.
At the end of the day, you will need to bring friends. IIRC, Oveur doesnt want anyone to have solopwnmobile. You think it is easy to solo? I also try to adapt like you.
/me looks at Moa with 4 slots x.x
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
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Sin'Jin
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Posted - 2006.06.06 17:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 06/06/2006 09:30:47
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Adapt.
Its not possible to adapt to this without using multiple people or multiple accounts. 'Adapting' by making it impossible to solo or small group and just possible with ganking is a very poor solution or not a solution at all. The solution is to balance the game and its modules. Its not possible to adapt to this because the game mechanics dont allow it. So, lets make it not possible for Indy pilots to travel solo. Screwit, they'll "abapt". Buy using multiple accounts and travel in convoys. . . This is what you're asking, is it not ?
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
so you basically want an "i win" button?
What about a [I Caught You Now Fight Button]. Call me crazy. Wanting to PvP in a PvP game. What next? We can call you crazy for forcing others into PvP with no way for them to get out of it... Other than kill the other guy. Fitting guns on an Indy, makes as much sense as a biker toting around a hammer to knock out automobile windshields of stupid drivers.... Ever see a biker get up off the pavement after getting hit by a car? To break out a windshield?... I thought not. . .
Originally by: Dao 2
stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles
They dont work in 0.1 to 1.0 and in corporation wars and are not the answer to every single engagement even when your trying to kill a specific ship. Well, you have one valid point.
Originally by: Dinique
I like instas.
If you are prepared for a system you are in, they give you a great benefit, if you're not, you're a sitting duck while heading to the gate.
If a system is hostile, and you dont have instas, and you're in anything slower than a frigate, you're in trouble.
Yeah thats called bad luck and its part of the game. Yea it is but yet still, you fail to see this.
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Samirol
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:06:00 -
[37]
I haven't read the entire thread so this may already have been said
for undocking, if you bump them, then you can shoot them for like 20 seconds before they can redock again
OREMONGERS |
Zirator
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:21:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Zirator on 06/06/2006 18:22:08
Originally by: Samirol
I haven't read the entire thread so this may already have been said
for undocking, if you bump them, then you can shoot them for like 20 seconds before they can redock again
As long as the ship doesn't do anything, you will just fly through it if I'm not mistaken.
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Prestis
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:37:00 -
[39]
Agreed.
The worst one has the be the undocking immunity timer. Does anyone actually need two whole minutes? Time for a PC upgrade maybe?
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Dog Knot
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:40:00 -
[40]
this hole post is just plain silly tbh.... everyone want it there way...eve is fine..nothing put forum *****s & little baby whinners...
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:44:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Prestis
Agreed.
The worst one has the be the undocking immunity timer. Does anyone actually need two whole minutes? Time for a PC upgrade maybe?
Life of a war target in some empire system.
1. Buy a battleship.
2. Fit battleship.
3. Undock.
4. Black screen.
5. Wake up in station. Wallet gains +40M.
Node lag. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
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Blind Man
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Dao 2
stop crying, use interdictors and warp bubbles
He has a point though... dictors dont stop ppl if they log off before they decloak on the other side of the gate.
That is its own problem, doesn't require a delay jumping or docking.
They can fix the invulnera-frieghter while they are at it
yep.
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MrTripps
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Posted - 2006.06.06 19:01:00 -
[43]
As I said before: Whiny pirates are funny. Whaaa I can't kill everyone...
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
- Salvor Hardin |
Jason Marshall
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Posted - 2006.06.06 19:04:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Jason Marshall on 06/06/2006 19:07:43
pfft who uses WCS's? real men use armor plates and damage controls.
and yes im one of thoose easy PvP targets, ive rushed HED in many a thorax. I honestly do it cause i like the colors...and i dont have the skills to really solo anyhting...but there dose need to be away for epople who have choosen industry to get out of fights...'oh look 10mil points in industry' ::warps into gate camp 'ahhh **** i have no tank.' would be nice to see a warp presicion skill. also i would be willing to do the whole ransoming thing if anyone would give me the chance. So dont complain you get plenty of guys like me traveling through low sec, i hate being picked on and i choose to travel low sec, but i get over it real easy after a nice nap and some wild turkey.
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Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.06.06 19:10:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 06/06/2006 19:11:36
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
What about a [I Caught You Now Fight Button]. Call me crazy. Wanting to PvP in a PvP game. What next?
I'm sorry, what?
If I'm in a stabbed indy, guess what? you DIDN'T catch me.
This isn't Counter Strike. If you want a game of pure blast-em-up the door is this way -->
You have to think. People will counter your tactics, forcing you to rethink yours. And while yes, this is a PvP game, it's not a PK game.
Not everyone flys around in battleships ganking each other all the time. There are people making sure you have the mods and ships handy to do those ganks. and many of them are part time industrialists.
so you couldn't catch a hauler and get an easy kill. Boo Hoo. for every hauler that gets away, 3 probably didn't somewhere else.
If you want to fight against something that can't out-thnk you, just mission run against NPCs.
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Atlas Oracle
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Posted - 2006.06.06 20:02:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
this is a PvP game, it's not a PK game.
seems more like a PK game to me... maybe just my perception
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.06 20:06:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Atlas Oracle
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
this is a PvP game, it's not a PK game.
seems more like a PK game to me... maybe just my perception
PvP, PK, PKK. All the same.
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
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Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.06.06 21:33:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Atlas Oracle
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
this is a PvP game, it's not a PK game.
seems more like a PK game to me... maybe just my perception
considering 90% of players are in empire, it probably is.
most PvP is through industry and markets.
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Lathera Hen
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Posted - 2006.06.06 21:52:00 -
[49]
well thats becose gankers have seald off low sec and 0.0 with no hope of a samy industrial cherechter pushing thru
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Gretek Lal
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Posted - 2006.06.06 22:48:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Plus 99% of the 'PvPers' that I see (mind you, theyre all lowsec pirates, not the real 0.0 thing) have no interest whatsoever in a real fight anyway. They just want to PK, and any time odds are even close to even, they use the game mechanics (the very same ones they complain about when used by 'carebears') to evade having to actually fight.
Imho everything is fine, the problem is not the game mechanics but the widespread mentality to only do combat with overwhelming odds.
Yep. Most so-called 'pirates' are cowards who only want to fight when they are guaranteed a win.
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The Goblin
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Posted - 2006.06.06 23:43:00 -
[51]
There are a lot of asinine posts here that I wont even bother to respond too.
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Ram it next time, repetedly. A 4 Stab Industrial isnt going to be the most nimble thing in existance.
Ram it, and keep ramming it so it cant align.
Its lends credibility to my point(s) that such a basic low tech solution is necessary. Having to improvise by going outside of the intended game mechanics to achieve a result that should be available inside the game system is not smart programming.
Originally by: Flyyn
Its all whinaage here...all these things were placed in the game, to protect players from m0o and M3G4 three years ago....
If you wanted to kill people as they undock you should have been here three years ago....
Exactly. I was here 3 years ago as well. They were placed in the game to protect the players against JIP camping (which no longer exists), before instas became the holy grail of PvP avoidance, before Concorde became invincible, before the highways were removed and before ships cloaked on jump in. In short they were placed into the game to deal with problems that either no longer exist or that have been alleviated by the players and additional changes made by CCP.
Originally by: Dog Knot
this hole post is just plain silly tbh.... everyone want it there way...eve is fine..nothing put forum *****s & little baby whinners...
Yeah. Eve is PERFECT. It got this way because nobody whined aka suggested changes. The development team should be immediately disbanded. Please CCP no more changes, Dog Knot says 'Eve is fine'.
I feel that a lot of posters here are very ego-centric and dont fully think outside the square they play inside of. I have been a high sec miner, low sec pirate, solo 0.0 space miner npcer / evader of alliance pirates, 0.0 space alliance member, 0.0 space pirate, high sec ganker, high sec warring extortion corporation ceo, a high and low sec missioner.
I have watched Eve develop since I first saw it 'In Development' in a PC Gamer magazine and I know that in a year it'll be quite different then it is today and I hope that CCP will take a little notice of this post and others like it and make the game just a little more balanced towards Catching vs Evading.
If you think thats a bad thing then its YOU that is playing the wrong game - "just trying to get my indy through a system without [any possibility of] PvP" - when that system is a PvP enabled system is plain WRONG.
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Dampfschlaghammer
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Posted - 2006.06.07 00:33:00 -
[52]
Quote:
= Warping
= Jumping
= Instas
= Docking
= Undocking
It is entirely possible to take a ship out and using these periods of invulnerability, to take it almost anywhere, in any situation, and not die.
Life of a war target in some empire system.
Pretty much sums it up. Should be stickied for those who joined EvE for its non-consentual PvP - although it should be noted that CCP has gone some way to deal with this (Bubbles, interdictors, Gallente recons) in the most dangerous area (0.0).
Still safespotting and undock protection are lame as hell.
Quote:
1. Buy a battleship.
2. Fit battleship.
3. Undock.
4. Black screen.
5. Wake up in station. Wallet gains +40M.
Node lag. YARRRR!!
Can be easily fixed. Just make it so that overview does not work during invulnerability time, and everything can load properly.
It is a pity to see that myopic carebears who, out of fear for some percentages on their profit margin, attempt to stand in the way of changes that would, with enough foresight, be good for the game and all of us.
Right now we have two phenomena - haulers with an alt scout face little to no risk, and hardly ever have to enter combat.
Pirates, on the other hand, also face hardly any risk, as all the combat evasion mechanisms (especially stabs and safespots) grant them virtual immunity to any escort a hauler might have decided to field as well.
What is required is simply
-make it very difficult for haulers to make profit in pirate infested terrain
-make it very difficult for pirates to survive appropriate escorts or bounty hunters out for them
-if required, adjust profit rates to reflect the increased need for escorts
Carbears should still be able to gain as much profit as they do now, but would have to make more efforts to succeed than simply copying BM's and using scout alts.
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fisty
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Posted - 2006.06.07 00:43:00 -
[53]
153432424234km/ph
what on earth is a km/ph? lol
i can see you mean km/h and i think you tried to say kph "kilometres per hour"
too funny...
Ciao |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.07 00:48:00 -
[54]
Originally by: The Goblin
I don't like that my gate camping and other tactics don't hand me skill-less kills over and over.
Now that your post is summed up, no, deal.
You're not getting palyability killed in the way you're asking for.
And you can taget someone exiting a station before they warp off, use sensor boosters and scrams to pin them. Yes your 10-20+ second lock isn't going to land before they leave, too bad.
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The Goblin
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Posted - 2006.06.07 03:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: fisty
153432424234km/ph
what on earth is a km/ph? lol
i can see you mean km/h and i think you tried to say kph "kilometres per hour"
too funny...
Actually I meant to type KPS as in Kilometers Per Second. Thanks for dropping bye and contributing so much to this thread
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: The Goblin
I don't like that my gate camping and other tactics don't hand me skill-less kills over and over.
Now that your post is summed up, no, deal.
You're not getting palyability killed in the way you're asking for.
And you can taget someone exiting a station before they warp off, use sensor boosters and scrams to pin them. Yes your 10-20+ second lock isn't going to land before they leave, too bad.
For starters - be careful with how you spell around here - alphabet cops about.
Secondly to address your post - thats not what I said at all - in fact its a gross misrepresentation - and defeats the entire purpose of having a serious forum to discuss the game.
Its not about taking away your playability - its about taking your playability, aims, goals and play style and balancing it with my playability, aims goals and play style.
You seem to want complete safety while gaining great reward in PvP enabled systems. I want to kill people in PvP enabled systems (this includes you if YOU CHOOSE to go to those systems).
Now that I have explained this in detail you can easily see that your style of gameplay is less valid then mine because you choose to affect my style of gameplay by manipulating the mechanics to change a dangerous system to a completely safe system while I do not do the same to you and if I tried I would lose security status, my ship and be flagged.
The end result of these tactics (i prefer to use cheats) is that you have players needing to go to extremes - ganking, long range sniping weak ships, non-ransoming, ramming, logging off in combat, log on traps, lag traps etc etc.
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Voculus
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Posted - 2006.06.07 04:22:00 -
[56]
Goblin, it sounds like you're a pirate who does nothing but camp gates and stations.
I'll be honest. I'm glad your efforts are met with nothing but frustration. It's time for you to evolve into a higher form of warrior.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.07 06:09:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dampfschlaghammer
Quote:
1. Buy a battleship.
2. Fit battleship.
3. Undock.
4. Black screen.
5. Wake up in station. Wallet gains +40M.
Node lag. YARRRR!!
Can be easily fixed. Just make it so that overview does not work during invulnerability time, and everything can load properly.
Think it is the changing of session that creates loading lag in busy nodes like Jita, Rens, systems sharing same node with BWF, etc.
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
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Sigurd Ross
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Posted - 2006.06.07 06:20:00 -
[58]
So Campin' Carl can't shoot me as I'm loading into space from leaving station.
OMGBOOHOO
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The Goblin
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Posted - 2006.06.07 06:24:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Voculus
Goblin, it sounds like you're a pirate who does nothing but camp gates and stations.
I'll be honest. I'm glad your efforts are met with nothing but frustration. It's time for you to evolve into a higher form of warrior.
Lets say I'm describing EVE combat to a friend whos thinking of joining up:
Friend: So how does combat work. Say I find a cargo ship and want to attack it.
Friend: Can I intercept it during its travel (warp)?
Me: No they're invulnerable in warp.
Friend: Can I intercept it as it docks at the station?
Me: No it can instant dock and then its invulnerable.
Friend: Can I stop it from warping at the stargate?
Me: No its probably got WCS modules. Making it, yes, Invulnerable to scramblers and thus combat.
Friend: Hey, what about these interdictor spheres?
Me: NO! Only work for 0.0 people.
Friend: Hey, what about warp bubbles? NO! Again only 0.0 people are able to use them.
Me: And before you ask, no, its invulnerable when undocking too until it does something.
Friend: Like leave?
Me: Yeah
Friend: So... Is there any way I can kill it?
Me: Yeah. Bang into it physically with your ship.
Friend: 0o But my ships only 1/100th the size. How will that stop it.
Me: It just will, don't question it.
Friend: So how do people kill other people in this game then?
Me: Lag and large numbers of people camping zone in points called gates.
Friend: 0o
Sound about right?
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Marie Elise
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Posted - 2006.06.07 06:45:00 -
[60]
Originally by: The Goblin
Sound about right?
Sounds exactly like the way everyone likes it.. except you know.. low-life pirates.
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Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.06.07 07:05:00 -
[61]
Ok, I'll add my 2 ISK. This is from persoanl experience only.
Originally by: The Goblin
Friend: Can I intercept it during its travel (warp)?
Me: No they're invulnerable in warp.
I thought interdictor spheres could pull you our of warp but I'm not sure. Considering you are in a tunnel that warps physical space to the point you can pass 'through' planets being invulnerable from scanners and weapons sounds reasonable.
Originally by: The Goblin
Friend: Can I intercept it as it docks at the station?
Me: No it can instant dock and then its invulnerable.
Not everyone has instas or if they do they don't use them for every station and gate. Sure some people *can* insta dock but not everyone does. If they don't stick a couple of high end webbers on them and they ain't getting to the staiton. They can warp off but ram or scram to stop that.
Originally by: The Goblin
Friend: Can I stop it from warping at the stargate?
Me: No its probably got WCS modules. Making it, yes, Invulnerable to scramblers and thus combat.
More scrams or ram it. If they still get away pursue them to the next gate. Use the old double web and ram to stop them. If they jam you or use an insta to get to the gate then they have probably escaped, wait for another target or take up belt piracy.
Originally by: The Goblin
Friend: Hey, what about these interdictor spheres?
Me: NO! Only work for 0.0 people.
Friend: Hey, what about warp bubbles? NO! Again only 0.0 people are able to use them.
Me: And before you ask, no, its invulnerable when undocking too until it does something.
Friend: Like leave?
Me: Yeah
One of the greatest things about 0.0 is certainly the ability to use all the toys and not have to worry about sec hits, concord or gate guns. Your choice to go there of course. My Prowler got sucked into a bubble camp the other night, I dropped out of warp 26km on the far side of the gate. Thankfully my ship has the agility of a shuttle, can do 0 to 2.5km/s in 3 seconds, has resists to rival a battleship and can still move 4,000m¦ of goods.
The undock timer is like the gate cloak thing. It's there so if you get lagged for whatever reason during the session change you are not at a massive disadvantage. The moment you move or activate a module you are a target. If a hauler pilot can align and jump to warp before you can lock, scram and web they deserve to get away. Sensor boosters are your friends.
Originally by: The Goblin
Friend: So... Is there any way I can kill it?
Me: Yeah. Bang into it physically with your ship.
Friend: 0o But my ships only 1/100th the size. How will that stop it.
Me: It just will, don't question it.
All ships have a collision detection thing to avoid crashing into stuff. That's why a BS will dodge a jet can, it's not actually hitting it, it's avoiding it. "Ramming" people off alignment is a tried and trusted tactic and stands up to being questioned.
Originally by: The Goblin
Friend: So how do people kill other people in this game then?
Me: Lag and large numbers of people camping zone in points called gates.
Friend: 0o
Sound about right?
Hunting in packs gets you kills, in no small part due to the versitility a group of ships can provide but also down to raw firepower. Yes I fly with gank squads from time to time and I have been hunted by gank squads just as often. Humans tend to fight in gangs, we are pack animals.
You can also win a lot of fights solo but in my experience tend to miss out on kills more due to the other guy having stabs or just a fast enough ship to get out of scram range. Bear in mind I am not a pirate. I do get attacked by pirates while I'm out in belts on a regular basis and trust me, they use stabs as often as hauler pilots. Still, not everyone uses stabs so solo kills do still happen on a regular basis.
Solo camping I don't think works well unless you have a fast locking ship with a good alpha strike. Go to the Belts.
>> RECRUITING << |
Bordric
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Posted - 2006.06.07 07:08:00 -
[62]
Goblin you have a hard time finding a fight? Yeah smacking down good hauler money can be a bit of hard work. The smart ones know what they are doing and are difficult to get and that is the way it should be. It should not be easy to do or everyone would be doing it and not a sole would want to have their hard work ruined by gankers in every other system, it would just be bad news for the non-combat side of the game. Sometimes small "cheats" are needed to balance things. I think the game works as is.
To me the "mechanics" is a little weak in the debate section. Simply because the mechanics are designed for as much fun as possible. \
Quote:
Friend: 0o But my ships only 1/100th the size. How will that stop it.
Me: It just will, don't question it.
Yes and if it were more real they would have to turn their ship around after reaching half the distance to their destination and reverse thrust to slow and stop. So yeah a little bump and grind is not really outside the "mechanics" like most physics in the game it is simply their for player "fun". There ain't much fun in getting ganked every time you leave a system or enter one or undock.
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Darineah Charach
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Posted - 2006.06.07 07:24:00 -
[63]
SO you get frustrated that some people get away? I get frustrated when i don't. Difference is i don't come in here and whine about it, i accept ganking and piracy as part of the game and get another ship.
If you want realism, i'm all for it. How about we do everything you suggested and perhaps make it even more real.
Like, known criminals actually getting hunted down which would mean no-one with neg sec allowed in hi sec....ever. Or, allowing someone who is the victim of piracy to report it to the authorities (concorde) who would then go hunt him down. It is low sec, not no sec so surely that would be more realistic?
There is a point at which realism becomes unplayable. What you're suggesting crosses that line. As things stand now, if i'm on a hauler run using instas, doesn't matter how many WCS i'm wearing i am a big fat target from the time i start to align to when i warp. IF you can't get me then, i beat you. If you do get me, you beat me. Not all PVP results in a ships loss, sometimes a victory is just surviving.
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Mavelle
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Posted - 2006.06.07 07:44:00 -
[64]
You know. From my perspective as someone, who's been playing since the beta, but never in long enough stints to actually pass 2 million skillpoints or really learn alot about the game.. I'll say that I frankly hate any PVP where the playing field is at a point that someone can easily destroy you.
There SHOULD be PLENTY of ways for the person who does not want to engage in PVP to avoid it. Not everyone enjoys being ganked. I know that I despise it. Due to this I'm stuck not being able to see any part of the game with the areas under a .5 security level. What fun is that? It's not fun at all I'll tell you. I've played many many MMOGs over the years. It's a shame that the only one that really allows you to avoid true PVP ganking is only a recent release.. World of Warcraft. That is if you avoid PVP servers and world PVP and stick to battlegrounds.
Call me a oddity, but when it comes to PVP, I don't want 'Time spent here. Money spent there. Life lost here.' to be the deciding factor. But a even playing field in any one on one situation. Some people need to get their 'i'm bettr then j00' fix. I'm frankly not interested in giving people that fix at the expense of my personal enjoyment of a area of a game, where I'm actively trying to avoid that aspect of it but find myself, as time goes by, to go into the dangerous areas more and more.
It heartens me to see that there are all these options. It means that when I'm finally unable to avoid going to these places where PVP is unavoidable, I'll maybe have the skills up to have those options. I'm sorry if you feel otherwise, but knowing this stuff means I will probably not end up quitting again when I find myself in these areas and being popped by a 10 year old in a Battlecruiser as he shouts obcenities at me over local while I'm doing my damndest to escape in a destroyer that has tech 1 items and weapons on it. (Yes. I know not all 'pirates' are like that. But still the same mindset is there in all games which allow PVP).
Well, I guess that's my basic little 10ISK rant. Nothing to see here, move along.
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FireLord
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Posted - 2006.06.07 08:38:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Lathera Hen
well thats becose gankers have seald off low sec and 0.0 with no hope of a samy industrial cherechter pushing thru
I'm sorry, thats just utter utter tosh, have you even BEEN into 0.0? its not exactly hard to get out there tbh, and lowsec is hardly sealed off, you get some wannabes using certain systems as their base of gankage, but it hardly makes them all unpassable. |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.06.07 09:04:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Mavelle
You know. From my perspective as someone, who's been playing since the beta, but never in long enough stints to actually pass 2 million skillpoints or really learn alot about the game.. I'll say that I frankly hate any PVP where the playing field is at a point that someone can easily destroy you.
There SHOULD be PLENTY of ways for the person who does not want to engage in PVP to avoid it. Not everyone enjoys being ganked. I know that I despise it. Due to this I'm stuck not being able to see any part of the game with the areas under a .5 security level. What fun is that? It's not fun at all I'll tell you. I've played many many MMOGs over the years. It's a shame that the only one that really allows you to avoid true PVP ganking is only a recent release.. World of Warcraft. That is if you avoid PVP servers and world PVP and stick to battlegrounds.
Call me a oddity, but when it comes to PVP, I don't want 'Time spent here. Money spent there. Life lost here.' to be the deciding factor. But a even playing field in any one on one situation. Some people need to get their 'i'm bettr then j00' fix. I'm frankly not interested in giving people that fix at the expense of my personal enjoyment of a area of a game, where I'm actively trying to avoid that aspect of it but find myself, as time goes by, to go into the dangerous areas more and more.
It heartens me to see that there are all these options. It means that when I'm finally unable to avoid going to these places where PVP is unavoidable, I'll maybe have the skills up to have those options. I'm sorry if you feel otherwise, but knowing this stuff means I will probably not end up quitting again when I find myself in these areas and being popped by a 10 year old in a Battlecruiser as he shouts obcenities at me over local while I'm doing my damndest to escape in a destroyer that has tech 1 items and weapons on it. (Yes. I know not all 'pirates' are like that. But still the same mindset is there in all games which allow PVP).
Well, I guess that's my basic little 10ISK rant. Nothing to see here, move along.
The issue is... thats not what eve is about. There are plenty of MMOs which work just like you want them to. I don't play those MMOs, I play Eve, as does everyone else. I don't play it because I have a firefly complex but I think it should really be World of Starcraft. I play it because it is the game I love, and there are a lot of reasons for this. Chief among those is risk. Everything you do in eve has some risk associated with it, but when you want the better rewards (Lower sec and 0.0), you get the bigger risks (ebil piwates). I don't want Braindeath Online or SimCarebear 2000: they already exist in enough games. What is the point in fighting if you cannot lose? What is risk when you lose nothing?
Removing risk makes everything meaningless. I don't want to stop the adrenaline or the fear that comes from flying in Eve in danger.
If I wanted what you want, I'd play a game that offers it, not try and ruin Eve for people who don't want it.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.06.07 09:38:00 -
[67]
While I agree with you Hippoking. And the OP has some valid points. The whole "OMG someone used ingame mechanics and now I can't kill him" is bull****. Fitting 4 wcs and using instas on a hauler, yeah it's freaking criminal that someone would trade half his cargohold for the ability to survive.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
GLok
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Posted - 2006.06.07 09:57:00 -
[68]
Personally i only have a problem with 1 thing that you have mentioned.
Docking and Undocking, although i moan i use it myself as there is NO risk, i can undock scout and be like "ok la la la outside that station" but also i couldundock sit there annoy people for a second and then just redock to annoy them, there should be an extra delay after the original invuln timer.
As i said i use this, but lets say this will bring covert ops allot more into empire war.
If i wasnt able to undock-redock i would be quite happy to sit a covert ops outside the station so that i can scout whats outside.
As for the people saying they use wcs to combat gankers, it promotes it, if you have wcs they cant kill you solo thus the need for more people and more scramble strength is needed.
If you are camping in certain ships you are mostly unable to fit more than 1 point and fit a viable heavy tank to tank the sentrys solo. Ships such as the raven.
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Mavelle
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Posted - 2006.06.08 02:42:00 -
[69]
Originally by: HippoKing
The issue is... thats not what eve is about. There are plenty of MMOs which work just like you want them to. I don't play those MMOs, I play Eve, as does everyone else. I don't play it because I have a firefly complex but I think it should really be World of Starcraft. I play it because it is the game I love, and there are a lot of reasons for this. Chief among those is risk. Everything you do in eve has some risk associated with it, but when you want the better rewards (Lower sec and 0.0), you get the bigger risks (ebil piwates). I don't want Braindeath Online or SimCarebear 2000: they already exist in enough games. What is the point in fighting if you cannot lose? What is risk when you lose nothing?
Removing risk makes everything meaningless. I don't want to stop the adrenaline or the fear that comes from flying in Eve in danger.
If I wanted what you want, I'd play a game that offers it, not try and ruin Eve for people who don't want it.
I guess you miss my point, more or less. I got to ranting about things but I didn't really make it too clear. I'm simply disagreeing that there should be anything that makes it EASIER for the pirates and PKers to get their ganking fix. Frankly it should be harder. I'm sorry if I come off as to 'carebear' to you. But as I said I'm not generally interested in being in a fight where I can do nothing but scratch their paint job while they laugh loudly and pop me with weapons that do 100% damage past the armor, shields, and hull combined of the little ship I'm piloting.
At some point, it's obvious to me, I'm going to be forced into the lower security areas I'm doing my best to avoid. This became clear when I received a mission from my agent that wanted me to go into a .4.. Which I quickly refused. Luckily after I came back he had a new one.
To bring me to your little line. 'What is the point of fighting if you cannont lose?'.. Back to you: What's the point of fighting PLAYERS if you cannot lose?
That right there is the problem I see with Eve. Don't get me wrong, For some reason this game keeps me coming back since I first pulled my Minmatar ship out of the tutorial in the stress-test. So don't assume that I'm not one of those that 'Love the game'. Some players don't want to be involved in PVP. Non-Consentual is a fairly nasty word, if you ask me. There are other words you can add to it that would make whatever act the two words describe when together as highly illegal in most country's laws.
Am I even demanding that I want to cause a change to anything? No. I'm just disagreeing in my own little way of being overly wordy at times. Keep the PVP as it is. Give the attacker in a one on one situation the disadvantage. The attackee may not be some masochistic person who enjoys watching his ship get blown to a thousand pieces and sent back to his clone. (Don't get angry at that little analogy. It's just that, a analogy)
Frankly, the only point I'm trying to make is that I'm glad that there are these several options (insta's, invulnerablities on undocking, etc.. These things weren't in last time I played).
One more thing: Sorry with my 'tone' here. But I felt your tone in reply to me was rather.. not-to-nice.
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Voculus
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Posted - 2006.06.08 06:23:00 -
[70]
Quote:
Sound about right?
No, it doesn't. Haulers, and similar defenseless targets get killed all the time.
Your profession, piracy, would vanish if the chages you propose were put into play. You would never see a hauler in low-sec again, ever. Everything would be transported in battleships, dreadnoughts, and carriers. And you thought killing your targets was hard already.
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Dinique
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Posted - 2006.06.08 07:39:00 -
[71]
Originally by: The Goblin
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Ram it next time, repetedly. A 4 Stab Industrial isnt going to be the most nimble thing in existance.
Ram it, and keep ramming it so it cant align.
Its lends credibility to my point(s) that such a basic low tech solution is necessary. Having to improvise by going outside of the intended game mechanics to achieve a result that should be available inside the game system is not smart programming.
No it doesn't. Ramming someone prevents them from warping, but oh no, you don't want that. you want a button you can press and just sit back.
And ramming isn't necessary at all, if you have enough scramblers fitted. And if you don't, ramming works and is perfectly valid.
Since when is thinking outside the box bad? And who are you to decide what is intended game mechanics or not? By the very fact that you need to align and speed up to warp, and that you can be bumped around and moved shows that this is might just be intended game mechanics for all we know.
Not everything that you can do in EVE has been planned out in detail by the developers. And you don't know if they explicitly wanted ramming to prevent warping or not, or if that's just emergent gameplay. Either way, its a good thing all the same.
_____
There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones
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