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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2006.06.09 06:35:00 -
[61]
Also its probably impracticle and silly to change the way the EVE system works unless its a system wide change.
I can warp in one system but another system I can't?
I can log off in one system but another system I cant?
I can see people in local in one 0.0 system but another system I cant? < - Well actually that makes sense if there are no gates and all jumps are made by using capital ships with pilots and their ships in bays. Thats an idea.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.06.09 07:56:00 -
[62]
"Nanobot your opinion is clearly biased and based on incorrect assumption.
The fastest probe cannot scan a ship within 30-60 seconds and put the seeker within scrambling distance of you. It takes longer than that and there is ample opportunity for even the slowest ship to warp off before even a very fast tackler can get in range to scramble it.
Now I know thats its traditional to come to this forum and generalize, hypothesize and speculate or just flat out lie to get your point across but I thought Id point this out to you just in case you have the capability of being reasonable."
Wanna talk about hypothesize, generalize, and speculte? Or maybe flat out lie? the time it takes is a moot issue since you don;t show up in local you got ALL THE TIME YOU WANT. I am not sure WTf you are rambling about. But most people will be at a farking belt,station or some sort of landmark actually doing something.... not picking thier nose at a safe spot in the middle of no where. In which case I have no idea what game YOU PLAY but in the eve I play people can warp into a system i am in and probe me out in 60 secs easily. then they just warp to the object I am at and within a few seconds bam they are in range and scrambling me. If you are in any ship that takes any amount of time to align your done period end of story because the rest of his gang is warping with said tackler as well.
The fact that you will have ZERO clue they are even there makes it even more unlikely you will notice and react in the very few seconds you might have. You wanna talk about being capable of being reasonable? pfft g-f-y. Sorry buddy your full of crap it is a total crap shoot how close then end up to me when they warp in, and your 100% wrong slow ships WILL NOT align and get out in time... I mean for real you even play this game? Can take some ships well over 5 seconds align and warp out how long it take a fast tackler with a MWD to get in range lol. that is If you notice the EXACT instant they pop up something very unlikely to happen when you do not evne know they are in the system lol.
Again this is nothing but carebear gankers wanting EZ mode to gang *****people unprepared for pvp.... IE be bullies. Grow a pair and go fight people wanting a fight. It gets soo old to hear all the begging and whining for more ways and more ease to gank people who have no chance in the first place.
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Tiree
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Posted - 2006.06.09 08:00:00 -
[63]
About local: Yes, I suggested this once too, but some other changes need to happen first. Like constellation control, I like the idea of empire still having the same local as it is now (as it's a Empire controlled piece of space with probably lots of scanners) and 0.0 having an empty local where you only see people when they start talking.
There are pro's and cons for both sides, but it will make 0.0 more realistic and exciting. I'm a miner/ratting myself and would probably need to take some more safety precautions if this ever happens, but it will also mean I can't be detected when at a random belt. Pirates will really have to check the system then as rat hunters and miners will have to be on the look out too. 0.0 isn't really meant for soloing anyway (as much as I like it), you should be mining or ratting in gangs for safety. It will make gate camps harder to detect, but it'll also make it easier to bust them when eventually found, so camps have to move around.
Cov ops and ceptors (perhaps a scout class frig could be introduced) will become more important. Scanning needs to be improved perhaps as it will become more important too (perhaps the new seamless map will help in this too).
As for logout timer: No, no change. There's just too many things that can cause you to lose connection with Eve. ISP's can disconnect, computers can fail and Eve client still isn't perfect either (CTD's anyone?). I still get multiple CTD's a day and have tried many things to prevent it.
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2006.06.09 08:32:00 -
[64]
 Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
"Nanobot your opinion is clearly biased and based on incorrect assumption.
The fastest probe cannot scan a ship within 30-60 seconds and put the seeker within scrambling distance of you. It takes longer than that and there is ample opportunity for even the slowest ship to warp off before even a very fast tackler can get in range to scramble it.
Now I know thats its traditional to come to this forum and generalize, hypothesize and speculate or just flat out lie to get your point across but I thought Id point this out to you just in case you have the capability of being reasonable."
Wanna talk about hypothesize, generalize, and speculte? Or maybe flat out lie? the time it takes is a moot issue since you don;t show up in local you got ALL THE TIME YOU WANT. I am not sure WTf you are rambling about. But most people will be at a farking belt,station or some sort of landmark actually doing something.... not picking thier nose at a safe spot in the middle of no where. In which case I have no idea what game YOU PLAY but in the eve I play people can warp into a system i am in and probe me out in 60 secs easily. then they just warp to the object I am at and within a few seconds bam they are in range and scrambling me. If you are in any ship that takes any amount of time to align your done period end of story because the rest of his gang is warping with said tackler as well.
The fact that you will have ZERO clue they are even there makes it even more unlikely you will notice and react in the very few seconds you might have. You wanna talk about being capable of being reasonable? pfft g-f-y. Sorry buddy your full of crap it is a total crap shoot how close then end up to me when they warp in, and your 100% wrong slow ships WILL NOT align and get out in time... I mean for real you even play this game? Can take some ships well over 5 seconds align and warp out how long it take a fast tackler with a MWD to get in range lol. that is If you notice the EXACT instant they pop up something very unlikely to happen when you do not evne know they are in the system lol.
Again this is nothing but carebear gankers wanting EZ mode to gang *****people unprepared for pvp.... IE be bullies. Grow a pair and go fight people wanting a fight. It gets soo old to hear all the begging and whining for more ways and more ease to gank people who have no chance in the first place.
Lets say your a large barge mining in a belt.
You have 1 stab on cus your smart. You have positioned yourself at the end of the belt, NOT AT THE WARP IN POINT LIKE A LAZY NUB, cus your smart. A gang warps in to the belt and your EYEBALLS which are looking at the scanner as well as your phat orez tells your brain to make the necessary movements to warp out.
Now you should be about 50km from the warp in point. Interceptor does about 5kps and has to get to 7.5k so its going to take a minimum of 8 seconds but probably more like 10 - 15 due to you being able to see the ship warp in before he comes out of warp, him identifying, approaching, activating mwd.
You have options also. You can fit a multijammer, you can fit a webber and use your light drones, you can even warp out because.
You have on a stab.
So what are you complaining about. If your eyeballs are not looking at the screen, its not our fault. If your too lazy to strategically set up your ship so its not instantly pawned at warp in then its not our fault. If you dont fit the almighty stabilizer of invulnerability then its not our fault.
Bad luck.
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Psilocybe Cubensis
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Posted - 2006.06.09 08:35:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Chaddy
Originally by: Aramova
If they remove the fact that the ship vanishes, they need a system to detect if it was a CTD, the ISP died, a computer failed (harddrive/motherboard/etc), etc, there are times when someone disconnects where is it not their fault.
This can not be done.
Not exactly. It shouldnt take many moments to do so.
CCP just have to implent, that when the client quits(I guess it sends a QUIT command to the server), the server dosent do anything. It just leaves the ship where it is).
People would just pull their network plug when they've finished playing EVE for the day.
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Akiama
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:13:00 -
[66]
Using local as an omniscent 100% accurate scanner is ridiculous and screams cheater to me. I would like for CCP to make electronic warfare more interesting by creating a need for specialty scanners, radar ships, or scanning outposts as POS'. Increase the complexity of the game and make it more realistic. Having a list of local ships that's 100% accurate all the time is just unrealistic.
p.s. How do I get my character image there instead of the "!" mark? 
Akiama ~ aka Autumn Rain |
Ilany
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:55:00 -
[67]
I quite like the idea of having a "local communications" module to add to POSs (and built into 0.0 stations/outposts) for the sovereignty holder. It would finally give a proper strategic benefit to claiming sov and redress the balance slightly away from the casual gank-attacker and back towards the defender. But it would have to be brought in with a raft of other changes (sovereignty ping-pong would be a nightmare).
Also, what about the map? Certain people like to home in on map blobs. If you change local you need to change the map too.
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:32:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Ilany
I quite like the idea of having a "local communications" module to add to POSs (and built into 0.0 stations/outposts) for the sovereignty holder. It would finally give a proper strategic benefit to claiming sov and redress the balance slightly away from the casual gank-attacker and back towards the defender. But it would have to be brought in with a raft of other changes (sovereignty ping-pong would be a nightmare).
Also, what about the map? Certain people like to home in on map blobs. If you change local you need to change the map too.
Nah you dont need to change the map. The map doesnt tell you who is in a system. Even if the local chat remained as well as a counter of how many pilots where in the system, it would still be a massive boost to PvP and excitement, to remove names. The killer thing is people knowing who you are rather then how many you are.
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:37:00 -
[69]
Edited by: madaluap on 09/06/2006 10:39:24
Wouldnt guerilla warfar be screwed with those logoff chances. A lot of 0.0 has npc stations, but sometimes you just have to log off because of RL issues. Being visible for hours isnt very pleasant than.
I can live with these changements IF pods cloak after his ship got killed.
About no local:
This is working waaaaay to well for blobbers, get a blob camp a gate, **** everyone up.
+ Most people want more people in 0.0, well GL finding them.
Most pirates whine that places like syndicate are empty from carebears and only has hardcore pvp dudes and blobs in it. This will make it even worse, goodbye 0.0 pirating it was nice to know you.
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Gabby05
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Posted - 2006.06.09 18:48:00 -
[70]
The changes are to LOCAL not the map your still see those white and red dots of number of ships/destroyed in the system in the passed hour.
So yes if your a miner and you have been mining Crokite for several hours in 0.0 then theres a goood chance someones checked the map and spotted your dot!. But once they've entered the system they still cant be certain your still in there.
Anything below 0.5 should not have local show who is in the system as it leaves no element of surprise if anyone feels really lonely not seeing anyone in the local screen just type "hello" your get an answer if anyone wants to chat.
If the devs did something about local sooner than they last attempted they wouldn't of got a dozen pages of whiners complaining about how hard it is to find people cos they would of adapted already.
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Tssa
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Posted - 2006.06.09 20:02:00 -
[71]
Originally by: James Duar
No that would be a crappy world. No local means I can't guesstimate the threat level at the gates, while a gank squad can just sit there.
I've flown through 0.0 without insta's - had a blast dodging pirates along the way - but without local it would have been an even slower and much less fun process.
That's a good point. I love the idea of a new local, but perhaps a prerequisite would need to be the elimination of instas. i.e., to travel 0.0 in even moderate safety, you'd need to train up Warp Drive Precision or something so you could warp reasonably close to gates. Otherwise, the sellers of insta-sets are gonna rake in some serious ISK.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.06.09 20:51:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/06/2006 20:51:43
Originally by: Gabby05
The changes are to LOCAL not the map your still see those white and red dots of number of ships/destroyed in the system in the passed hour.
The current system is so unreliable you can pass a 100-ship fleet throught without makign a ripple as long as you keep moving.
Infinity Ziona, it may interest you to spend hours and hours seeing on alt scouts on gates because they are the ONLY mechanism to allow early spotting, and nothing else but I prefer to see the actual enemy. And NOT all of them will get away.
There is NO other way to provide ANY degree of safety under the systems suggested. Hence people are forced to use it, and will.
If you nerf local, expect a LOT of PvP corps back in empire wardeccing newer players*. Expect the core system populations to soar, for agents to be more popular...sigh.
(*And yes, I'm aware that that charge can be leveled with some degree of accuracy at my corp)
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Mortuus
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Posted - 2006.06.09 23:45:00 -
[73]
Remove people from local chat unless they speak. Add a gang module that acts like an AWACS. Allows you to see people in local while active, or at least numbers. Then toss in some sort of anti cloak tech2 destroyer. Still allows intel gathering, and also means selective killing of enemy ships makes a long term tactical difference. If a couple snipers blast your BC, and then a gang jumps into local, you'll never know.
Occassus Republica, PoE |
ragewind
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Posted - 2006.06.10 00:35:00 -
[74]
lots needs to happen to the game befor local changes.
aliances would need the ability to have some way of detecting forces aproching them or you would have any 00 to empire pipe runs needing very large high skilled gangs to move odd singel ships.
this would also limet the introduction of newer players to 00 as they would have no for warning of any posibel hostiles.
local may be hated but it works well and until it replaced by something that works as fairly as local dose currently then it shouldent change
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fix eves industrial sector!
advanced industrial ship |
Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2006.06.10 04:28:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/06/2006 20:51:43
Originally by: Gabby05
The changes are to LOCAL not the map your still see those white and red dots of number of ships/destroyed in the system in the passed hour.
The current system is so unreliable you can pass a 100-ship fleet throught without makign a ripple as long as you keep moving.
Infinity Ziona, it may interest you to spend hours and hours seeing on alt scouts on gates because they are the ONLY mechanism to allow early spotting, and nothing else but I prefer to see the actual enemy. And NOT all of them will get away.
There is NO other way to provide ANY degree of safety under the systems suggested. Hence people are forced to use it, and will.
If you nerf local, expect a LOT of PvP corps back in empire wardeccing newer players*. Expect the core system populations to soar, for agents to be more popular...sigh.
(*And yes, I'm aware that that charge can be leveled with some degree of accuracy at my corp)
And you should be able to pass a 100 ship fleet through if theres nobody in local doing the covert ops job.
It doesnt interest me at all to sit on a gate scouting with an alt but thats what local forces me to do. If I jump into a system then people see that and run.
With Local I have needed to train up a covert ops alt, who goes first, finds the player, gets close and then I jump in and warp to my covert ops alt. Quite a lot of time even that fails because they see me in local and warp to a safe or insta dock.
Who cares if a lot of PvP corps run back and hide in empire. So what. They don't deserve to be out in 0.0 if they have no spines.
Infinity Ziona
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.06.12 08:55:00 -
[76]
"And you should be able to pass a 100 ship fleet through if theres nobody in local doing the covert ops job.
It doesnt interest me at all to sit on a gate scouting with an alt but thats what local forces me to do. If I jump into a system then people see that and run.
With Local I have needed to train up a covert ops alt, who goes first, finds the player, gets close and then I jump in and warp to my covert ops alt. Quite a lot of time even that fails because they see me in local and warp to a safe or insta dock."
LMAO, thanks for confirming your a carebear ganker. I mean come on? Your the perfect example of why local needs to stay as in every system... you go through the trouble of using an covert ops cloaked alt to gank people not wanting pvp.... get a life there are tonnes of people wanting pvp in eve go fight them what a gutless wimp.... amazing part is you suggested people shouldnt be there if they don;t have a spine? hahahahahaahaha take a look in the mirror MR jellyfish.
Of course you rambled on and ignored the part when i corrected you above explaining it really wouldnt matter how long it took to scan and drops probes if you wanted to warp RIGHT to the person because they have no idea your're there... I wont even touch your silly idea that 2 WCS will save a barge from a dedicated tackler rofl. oh ya and what do you do when you think your on the far side of the belt but actually because they entered from that side of the system your ACTUALLY at the near side of the belt to them smarty... Oh ya and we all know how there is unlimited amounts of roids exactly where you want them LOL, oh ya and the rats always spawn in the right spot for you too!
Anyrate dumb idea glad it won't happen. Eve alreayd favors the "hunter" far to much simply due to set ups the last thing we need is having no clue your being hunted. I mean there should be some challenge to pvp no? Not even sure what you do is considered pvp? I mean you use a cloaked alt to essentially locate ships you know that cannot beat you and you gank them... talk about a spineless gamer?
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Wizard
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Posted - 2006.06.12 09:55:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Wizard on 12/06/2006 09:55:09
Originally by: Oveur
Indeed. Any changes to local and other changes connected to that would apply to everything, not just 8 regions of all 0.0.
However, we might have different setups for Empire and low security, since it makes more sense that Empire has public communication channels, while low sec doesn't.
That sounds bloody brilliant
Delayed timer on people showing in local in low sec maybe?
No local in 0.0 at all...really not that unreasonable at all.
Without Reason corp website
^^looking for a PvP corp with little stress then look no further. |
Indy X
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Posted - 2006.06.12 09:59:00 -
[78]
About the log off timers etc
First of all, if you're targeted you should get a log off timer, not only if u have been attacked.
Secondly I think there should also be a timer when logging in. Two weeks ago a m8 of mine became a victim for a 20 man login trap. It just seems rediculous how 20 ppl can log off in a system for like 2 hours, only to login and all warp in at sniper range immideiately. What i propose is that the ships navigation and weapon systems have to be started up and that should take a few minutes. On addition to this, you shouldn't warp in on the point you warped out when logging off, it should be more random.
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marcouk2
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Posted - 2006.06.12 10:06:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Indy X
On addition to this, you shouldn't warp in on the point you warped out when logging off, it should be more random.
May sound good but when the positions are reversed it will cause more problems as people will log off in combat to escape being ganked and then just log straight back in and reappear in a different spot in system escaping any forces that may have been at their log off location
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2006.06.12 10:16:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
"And you should be able to pass a 100 ship fleet through if theres nobody in local doing the covert ops job.
It doesnt interest me at all to sit on a gate scouting with an alt but thats what local forces me to do. If I jump into a system then people see that and run.
With Local I have needed to train up a covert ops alt, who goes first, finds the player, gets close and then I jump in and warp to my covert ops alt. Quite a lot of time even that fails because they see me in local and warp to a safe or insta dock."
LMAO, thanks for confirming your a carebear ganker. I mean come on? Your the perfect example of why local needs to stay as in every system... you go through the trouble of using an covert ops cloaked alt to gank people not wanting pvp.... get a life there are tonnes of people wanting pvp in eve go fight them what a gutless wimp.... amazing part is you suggested people shouldnt be there if they don;t have a spine? hahahahahaahaha take a look in the mirror MR jellyfish.
Of course you rambled on and ignored the part when i corrected you above explaining it really wouldnt matter how long it took to scan and drops probes if you wanted to warp RIGHT to the person because they have no idea your're there... I wont even touch your silly idea that 2 WCS will save a barge from a dedicated tackler rofl. oh ya and what do you do when you think your on the far side of the belt but actually because they entered from that side of the system your ACTUALLY at the near side of the belt to them smarty... Oh ya and we all know how there is unlimited amounts of roids exactly where you want them LOL, oh ya and the rats always spawn in the right spot for you too!
Anyrate dumb idea glad it won't happen. Eve alreayd favors the "hunter" far to much simply due to set ups the last thing we need is having no clue your being hunted. I mean there should be some challenge to pvp no? Not even sure what you do is considered pvp? I mean you use a cloaked alt to essentially locate ships you know that cannot beat you and you gank them... talk about a spineless gamer?
Good lord. Its a game. Stop frothing at the mouth as though I'm actually killing real people.
In response to this blathering post all I have to say is Eve is primarily a NON_CONSENTUAL PVP game. Of course I'm going to try to get past the godlike local to get a kill because otherwise I would have to go and gank random players for absolutely no reason whatsoever. At least the way I kill, I kill people who are specifically targeted and who know that I am hunting them.
So they have a chance.
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