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Pirating in Recon Force Ships

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Tea Spoon	Posted - 2006.06.08 13:27:00 - [1] I've heard things like the Pilgrim, Rapier and Arazu can be extremely effective ransom/killing pirate ships for solo work and especially handy to have in a gang. I couldnt see any threads that mentioned much about Recon Force Ships but after looking over them it seems completely viable considering the slots availible. Anybody have much success with any of these ships and would like to share their opinions? possibly setups o_O? :P Would certainly be a nice change from my AF's and Inty's.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.08 13:29:00 - [2] I'd consider doing it in pilgrim, probably isn't worth it solo in the others.
James Snowscoran	Posted - 2006.06.08 14:03:00 - [3] All but the pilgrim have hefty issues with damage dealing and won't be able to break many tanks. The pilgrim, on the other hand, can be a real killer with nos+drones. -----
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.08 14:08:00 - [4] I use a Rapier, Pilgrim is garbage to me. --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------
Xendie	Posted - 2006.06.08 14:13:00 - [5] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri I use a Rapier, Pilgrim is garbage to me. that depends on how you have setup your rapier and how he has setup his pilgrim. Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.08 14:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri I use a Rapier, Pilgrim is garbage to me. that depends on how you have setup your rapier and how he has setup his pilgrim. Yeah I know, just like ****ing off the mimics. I had some tundragon guy going on how great the pilgrim was this and that after he insulted my Rapier. Some people just don't understand that other ships are good too. Not about following the herd of what's the flavor of the week. --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------
ian666	Posted - 2006.06.08 14:37:00 - [7] Rapier with 2x Webs and a AB can dictate the range and stay out of the 20k std scam range and would be very useful in a gang for holding the target and stay out of its fire range, even 1 vs 1 it can pull apart frig class ships but i'm not sure how it would hold its own if something came along with drones. The Pilgrim is more of a sneaky up close and engange ship, with ECM, Nos and Drones its going to pwn pretty much anything 1 vs 1.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.08 15:06:00 - [8] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 08/06/2006 15:09:09 Originally by: ian666 Rapier with 2x Webs and a AB can dictate the range and stay out of the 20k std scam range and would be very useful in a gang for holding the target and stay out of its fire range, even 1 vs 1 it can pull apart frig class ships but i'm not sure how it would hold its own if something came along with drones. The Pilgrim is more of a sneaky up close and engange ship, with ECM, Nos and Drones its going to pwn pretty much anything 1 vs 1. Ahh more ignorant pilots 4tw! -Damages- Lets say you're dumb enough to use 3xNoS and 5xMedium tech II drones. DPS : 119.057 Lets say you're a bit smarter and don't depend all damage on drones. DPS 1xNoS/2xHeavy Pulse II : 154.512 DPS 2xHeatSink : 171.178 Good stuff really. Lets see the Rapier 3x220 II, 4xValk II's DPS : 173.856 3x220 II, 4xValk II's, 2xGyro II DPS : 224.67 What's wrong guys can't figure out what the Rapier has more DPS and why Ian666 just doesn't know what he is talking about? Here is the Pilgrim not using NoS... 3xHeavy Pulse Laser II, 2xHeat Sink II, 5xValk II's DPS : 275.359 So yeah besides all of that. Rapier can solo 2 tech 1 cruisers fine. I did last night matter of fact. Rapier has 6 med slots for awsome ECM platform. I usaly run 4xHypnos multispecs. Sometimes 5 with no webber. Either way, it's pretty powerful AS the pilgrim is. However, Rapier has a drone bay too you know. It might not have a nos bonus or drone bonus but it can still put down ships just the same. If you picked the pilgrim because it would pwn the other recons then you're doing something wrong. As well if you think relying on just your drones for majority of your dps then your doing something wrong. Only a 75m3 drone bay, don't be risky with it. --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------
Mihae	Posted - 2006.06.08 16:42:00 - [9] What about Laechis then? It seems nice with 7x Medslots.
Prestis	Posted - 2006.06.08 16:48:00 - [10] I wanted to try this until I saw the Minmatar force recon bonus I can't think of one possible use for 40km webbing. Use it with 720 artil? They'll track most stuff fine at that range anyway. Stop runners? Maybe if it was scrambling too.
tomw	Posted - 2006.06.08 17:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Mihae What about Laechis then? It seems nice with 7x Medslots. ive been playing with one off and on and basic setup ive come up with was "off the top of my head, not ingame atm" high = 2 named nos, 3 t2 heavy launchers mid = 1 sensor booster, 2 20km disruptors, 4 named dampeners "named stuff uses less cap" low = med armor rep, passive t2 hardeners. t2 drones as well. done a bit of testing and its a balencing act between ganking and getting ganked as the nos means your close. nos is really needed to sustain ecm very long without some sort of capacitor mods. against a bs in testing its come out pretty good every time unless it was a bs with 2-3 sensor boosters, then i was just locked and had to resort to tanking or running. against cruisers it seemed to fair much better but i think a web would be in order then to keep you out of lock range and keep them in scramble range. might suck, might not still tweeking _______________________________________________ Signature removed, it must be related to eve -Eldo Dragons united is now recruiting, contact tuberider or myself for info
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.06.08 18:20:00 - [12] Originally by: Prestis I wanted to try this until I saw the Minmatar force recon bonus I can't think of one possible use for 40km webbing. Use it with 720 artil? They'll track most stuff fine at that range anyway. Stop runners? Maybe if it was scrambling too. Can you say death to all inties? Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.08 18:27:00 - [13] Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Originally by: Prestis I wanted to try this until I saw the Minmatar force recon bonus I can't think of one possible use for 40km webbing. Use it with 720 artil? They'll track most stuff fine at that range anyway. Stop runners? Maybe if it was scrambling too. Can you say death to all inties? Indeed, it's not even about the web bonus. It's about the painter bonus really, being you can snipe with the painter (60km falloff). Most inties, for example in 0.0 just hug on the gates. Then you uncloak, kind of got the "stun" thing going on for me being im blinky. Lock, paint, and laugh as the 720 tech II does it's work on a target not moving and painted. :P --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------
cRaNbErRy MuFfInMaN	Posted - 2006.06.08 18:29:00 - [14] i fly a rapier but also Arazu and Rook and it doesnt take a 40km web to anti ceptor its called the Enyo
Deathhawk	Posted - 2006.06.08 20:18:00 - [15] ive done some testing with the arazu on sisi and i think it would work really well for ransoming and just plain killing, so i will be using one in the near future.. well when the isk starts to flow again lol killed bs with it so i think itll be fine -------- I Ransom plz pay when asked
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.08 20:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Deathhawk ive done some testing with the arazu on sisi and i think it would work really well for ransoming and just plain killing, so i will be using one in the near future.. well when the isk starts to flow again lol killed bs with it so i think itll be fine -------- I Ransom plz pay when asked I'm training for it and it also looks like a good recon for piracy. I don't know if I'll use damps on it though. The ECM platform with the scrambler range bonus should be useful. As well Deathhawk, the armor resistances are pretty nifty too. --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------
Verone	Posted - 2006.06.08 22:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri As well Deathhawk, the armor resistances are pretty nifty too. Tank 4tw. I've tried the curse and pilgrim, can fly the gallentes too... so i'll be trying them soon. All are great for solo stuff so far, and are pretty sweet at support in a small gang of frigates anc cruisers VETO RECRUITMENT
Kehmor	Posted - 2006.06.08 23:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri some DPS info with 3 ogre II's pilgrim gets like 300+ dps think with interfacing 5 its like 350, but i worked this out quickly on paper so may be wrong
Bosie	Posted - 2006.06.08 23:55:00 - [19] Only used the Falcon so far for piracy, it is great as support but sucks solo as it lacks any teeht. I'll be using the Gall ones in about 7 days and I think they it will be possible to selective solo some things. Bosie. "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND." ...Winston
Verone	Posted - 2006.06.09 00:33:00 - [20] Originally by: Bosie Only used the Falcon so far for piracy, it is great as support but sucks solo as it lacks any teeht. Bosie means to say "Teeth" but he's from the north east like me, and hasn't yet fully grasped the concept of using a keyboard rather than chiseling the letters into rocks... VETO RECRUITMENT
Bosie	Posted - 2006.06.09 00:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Bosie Only used the Falcon so far for piracy, it is great as support but sucks solo as it lacks any teeht. Bosie means to say "Teeth" but he's from the north east like me, and hasn't yet fully grasped the concept of using a keyboard rather than chiseling the letters into rocks... Uhh? /emote smacks a rock of his head to clear the confusion... Bosie. "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND." ...Winston
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.09 03:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Kehmor Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri some DPS info with 3 ogre II's pilgrim gets like 300+ dps think with interfacing 5 its like 350, but i worked this out quickly on paper so may be wrong 3 is just not good enough to run with being that's all you can fit. It's cool it boosts DPS higher and all but when you factor in speed, chasing, and the on going drone bugs. It's much better to just have 5 or a bunch of light drones. All your play style anyways. --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------
The End	Posted - 2006.06.09 04:43:00 - [23] My Arazu is awesome get 2x domination scramblers and your scrambler range is like 45km i have maxed out sensor damp skills so my dampners do about -70% sensor range a piece. as i use 3 of them even with maxed hybrid skills the damage output is a bit weak. drones help out a bit I can scramble at 40km and sensor dampen the target to death with ease. if the target has a good tank i will not be able to kill it solo. but against most people it works.
Xendie	Posted - 2006.06.09 07:42:00 - [24] nevertheless how much everyone spins it, the recons are at their best in packs with a damage dealer also. Originally by: F'nog This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
TuRtLe HeAd	Posted - 2006.06.09 08:11:00 - [25] Rapier Rocks at belt piracy. So does Arazu.
Don Carn'age	Posted - 2006.06.09 08:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Kehmor Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri some DPS info with 3 ogre II's pilgrim gets like 300+ dps think with interfacing 5 its like 350, but i worked this out quickly on paper so may be wrong What happens when you loose a drone or two? You become useless. Take 5 medium and 5 light drones. % light drones will tear through a frigate in second if using T2
Zandramus	Posted - 2006.06.09 12:21:00 - [27] i took my curse out for a stroll lastnight it was pretty nice i like the curse better then the pilgrim
kessah	Posted - 2006.06.09 13:24:00 - [28] ive had some good success with the pilgrim. I do love thos when ur about 5km from ur unaware target then pm them asking for the ransom then. Get given the fu and show him the error of his ways and ofc bump the ransom up by 25% becus of his fair warning but tbh im looking forward to the matari FRC, i generally hate drones there still completly stupid for me atm, but yes its a nice ship. -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.eve-files.com/media/0604/Forever_pirate.wmv[/ur
Asphyxia DeNoir	Posted - 2006.06.09 15:49:00 - [29] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 08/06/2006 15:09:09 Originally by: ian666 Rapier with 2x Webs and a AB can dictate the range and stay out of the 20k std scam range and would be very useful in a gang for holding the target and stay out of its fire range, even 1 vs 1 it can pull apart frig class ships but i'm not sure how it would hold its own if something came along with drones. The Pilgrim is more of a sneaky up close and engange ship, with ECM, Nos and Drones its going to pwn pretty much anything 1 vs 1. Ahh more ignorant pilots 4tw! -Damages- Lets say you're dumb enough to use 3xNoS and 5xMedium tech II drones. DPS : 119.057 Lets say you're a bit smarter and don't depend all damage on drones. DPS 1xNoS/2xHeavy Pulse II : 154.512 DPS 2xHeatSink : 171.178 Good stuff really. Lets see the Rapier 3x220 II, 4xValk II's DPS : 173.856 3x220 II, 4xValk II's, 2xGyro II DPS : 224.67 What's wrong guys can't figure out what the Rapier has more DPS and why Ian666 just doesn't know what he is talking about? Here is the Pilgrim not using NoS... 3xHeavy Pulse Laser II, 2xHeat Sink II, 5xValk II's DPS : 275.359 So yeah besides all of that. Rapier can solo 2 tech 1 cruisers fine. I did last night matter of fact. Rapier has 6 med slots for awsome ECM platform. I usaly run 4xHypnos multispecs. Sometimes 5 with no webber. Either way, it's pretty powerful AS the pilgrim is. However, Rapier has a drone bay too you know. It might not have a nos bonus or drone bonus but it can still put down ships just the same. If you picked the pilgrim because it would pwn the other recons then you're doing something wrong. As well if you think relying on just your drones for majority of your dps then your doing something wrong. Only a 75m3 drone bay, don't be risky with it. Out of curiosity, why are you so hostile? People are only presenting their opinions; you make it sound as though these people are complete idiots (or following the herd) simply because they're using the ships bonuses. Lighten the f up.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.09 16:15:00 - [30] Na, it's not hostile. I'm just loud spoken :) Everyone is ignorant on different things including myself. Sometimes people confuse the use of ignorance as a insult when it's just a statement. Cheer up :) --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------
ian666	Posted - 2006.06.12 16:03:00 - [31] Edited by: ian666 on 12/06/2006 16:54:52 Edited by: ian666 on 12/06/2006 16:54:34 Edited by: ian666 on 12/06/2006 16:53:28 Edited by: ian666 on 12/06/2006 16:50:57 Famine Aligher'ri, your Pilgrim setup's that are only using 1 nos are lame, and a total waste or the ships bonus considering the pilgrim gets a bounus to nos, Disruptors don't u think? the DPS also depends on your drone skills which you should carry 1x T2 Small, 2x T2 Med and 2x T2 Heavy, if you don't have them well then used something else that you are skilled for. On your Rapier setup with 4x ECM? what are you going to do about Cap? take another slot for the Booster? so now you have 1 left? Webber? great no scram so you need a tackler? and wouldn't another Webber be useful? as you don't have a AB or MWD on that so they can get out of your web and scram range? The idea of dropping the Webber is rublish? again your not using the 60% bounus to the Ship, LOL. Do you even look at what the ship gets bouns to? or Cap usage? The Rapier is a good support ship but 1 vs 1 the Pilgrim win's hands down. 1 vs 1 the pilgrim will pwn the rapier with its ecm, disruptor and drones thats with out nos and nutrilizer. The right pilot would only engage the rapier under 10k in a pilgrim which means your poor rapier is doomed. I think it is maybe you Famine Aligher'ri that requires some alone time with setups before mouthing off
Cmi Labudovi	Posted - 2006.06.12 17:03:00 - [32] The arazu is a nice wee ship, especially when the soon to be 20% per level to warp disrupter range patch comes out. Lots of juicy mids mmmmm
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.12 18:16:00 - [33] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 12/06/2006 18:21:26 Originally by: ian666 Famine Aligher'ri, your Pilgrim setup's that are only using 1 nos are lame, and a total waste or the ships bonus considering the pilgrim gets a bounus to nos, Disruptors don't u think? the DPS also depends on your drone skills which you should carry 1x T2 Small, 2x T2 Med and 2x T2 Heavy, if you don't have them well then used something else that you are skilled for. On your Rapier setup with 4x ECM? what are you going to do about Cap? take another slot for the Booster? so now you have 1 left? Webber? great no scram so you need a tackler? and wouldn't another Webber be useful? as you don't have a AB or MWD on that so they can get out of your web and scram range? The idea of dropping the Webber is rublish? again your not using the 60% bounus to the Ship, LOL. Do you even look at what the ship gets bouns to? or Cap usage? The Rapier is a good support ship but 1 vs 1 the Pilgrim win's hands down. 1 vs 1 the pilgrim will pwn the rapier with its ecm, disruptor and drones thats with out nos and nutrilizer. The right pilot would only engage the rapier under 10k in a pilgrim which means your poor rapier is doomed. I think it is maybe you Famine Aligher'ri that requires some alone time with setups before mouthing off Well where to start hrrm Lets start with my setup for the rapier with 4xECM and cap issues. Let's go over some facts here. Tech II ECM Multispecs are 132.0 energy per 20 second cycle. That's pretty heavy I know, but lets look at the named ECM Multispec that's the same strength but less cap (Hypnos). The 'Hypnos' ECM Multispec is 96.0 energy stock. Now when we factor in skills to the Hypnos it drops down to 76.8 with level 4. The tech II ECM is around 105 energy per 20 second cycle. That's a HUGE cap difference for the same strength you know? Let's now look at the 4xECM cycle times and rapier cap recharge ect. Rapier on my end has 1050 cap with 220 cap recharge. This is pretty decent IMHO and will work well with the named ECM. With the named ECM running all 4 at once will go for a total of 6 cycles. That's 20x6=120 seconds a target is jammed till you have to drop 1 ECM for a total of 3xECM next cycle. That's stock cap recharge mind you. So lets add a cap relay to 1 of our 4 low slots. Now our cap recharge is 176.0sec for our ECM support. That's 10 cycles before we start losing ECM support for 1 ECM. So that's 20x10=200 seconds a target is jammed. Now let's throw on one more cap relay just to be safe, when really 1 is more than enough for support being cruisers for example can be jammed almost all the time with just 2xECM Multispecs. With 2xCap relays in our 4 low slots we have 132.0 cap recharge, which is crazy! So now our ECM is going way beyond 20 cycles with all 4 running, I'll pretty much deem this setup unlimited ECM cycles because either you're dead or the target is dead by the time you push these mainy cycles. Moving along... I like to use WEB/WS/4xECM with my rapier. Good setup, I don't need speed because I can web without being WEBBED. Target tries to MWD away, then well he better be in a inty with max speed of 3500+ to really avoid me. Thoraxs and ect well, yeah you're going to be going my default speed webbed 90%. MWD/WS/4xECM is what I like for belt piracy. Good stuff because astroids uncloak you in warp. So you need to start running towards your victim before he runs. Good stuff eh? Pilgrim is such a great ship. Love the ship and love what it can do. Yet I still love the rapier. You might down 1 nos on a pilgrim but then again, you use more than 1 nos you're sacrificing all your DPS as destructable. Not to mention the amount of dron bugs and not being able to chase a target = bad. It's your call really... Quote: I think it is maybe you Famine Aligher'ri that requires some alone time with setups before mouthing off Trying so hard not to insult you, but atleast fly the ships before commenting on them :) --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------
Kayoss	Posted - 2006.06.12 19:26:00 - [34] I'm not a pirate but wouldn't the Rook make a good pirate ship
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.12 19:48:00 - [35] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 12/06/2006 19:48:35 Originally by: Kayoss I'm not a pirate but wouldn't the Rook make a good pirate ship Yes, it would. I think the style for most of the recons will always be the cloaking style. Most of us do get ganged and attacked at gates/stations. So cloaking gives us the ability to pick our fights and not get probed. Not to mention, you can leave the system while criminaly flagged without instas and dock without instas after you uncloak 0km from station. So you can roam in more regions/systems you don't have bookmarks for. The cloaking recon for caldari the Falcon would be much harder to use though. This is only because it has 3 high slots for missiles and no drones. Part of the reason why other cloaking recons work well is because you can fit guns/missiles with 5 drones of the chosen size where the Falcon and even Rook can't. So really, fight time on the Falcon is very long but on the other hand you can pretty much perm jam people with both ships which is really good. Always fun in having style :) --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------

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