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Benefactor
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Posted - 2006.06.08 23:49:00 -
[1]
... and walks in circles.
Yes, that's right. Why is the right wing's engine flare smaller than the left? I'd be going in circles with this thing if the thrust was applied as such!
I know it's way down on the priorities list, but I hope the graphical update fixes this.
Oh, does the Retibution have the "short leg" too?
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inSpirAcy
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Posted - 2006.06.09 00:00:00 -
[2]
I always wondered how my Typhoon flies at all, with a huge rocket duct taped onto its side.
Although having said that, the rocket is probably the least of its aerodynamic worries... 
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Angus Torg
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Posted - 2006.06.09 07:49:00 -
[3]
Aerodynamic is probably one of your least important problems in space. The air is quite thin up there, you know...
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Wilfan Ret'nub
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:23:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Benefactor
... and walks in circles.
Yes, that's right. Why is the right wing's engine flare smaller than the left? I'd be going in circles with this thing if the thrust was applied as such!
You'll be in such a shock when you see Caldari ships up close...
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:34:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Angus Torg
Aerodynamic is probably one of your least important problems in space. The air is quite thin up there, you know...
It's not a case of aerodynamics, it's a case of moment of force.
You still need equal effective force either side of the centre of gravity to go in a straight line, even in a vacuum.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:39:00 -
[6]
Reading comprehension people?
Originally by: Benefactor
Yes, that's right. Why is the right wing's engine flare smaller than the left? I'd be going in circles with this thing if the thrust was applied as such!
Where does the OP mention *anything* related to aerodynamics? It's about engine thrust. If you have on the right side an engine with 2* the thrust than on the left side your ship will move in circles, be it in space, in the air or on or under the ocean.
That being said, most ships have a rather strange engine configuration, in particular the caldari. Yes, it's unrealistic, but it's not like it's the only thing in EvE.
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Talori'i
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Aramendel
Reading comprehension people?
Originally by: Benefactor
Yes, that's right. Why is the right wing's engine flare smaller than the left? I'd be going in circles with this thing if the thrust was applied as such!
Where does the OP mention *anything* related to aerodynamics? It's about engine thrust. If you have on the right side an engine with 2* the thrust than on the left side your ship will move in circles, be it in space, in the air or on or under the ocean.
That being said, most ships have a rather strange engine configuration, in particular the caldari. Yes, it's unrealistic, but it's not like it's the only thing in EvE.
Could always write it off as the bigger engine is less efficient and the smaller engine is more efficient.
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:43:00 -
[8]
Thrust, no size. Thrust is their effeciency. 
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Kashke E'chara
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:52:00 -
[9]
It is strange to see ships which are symmetrical to have different ammount of engine thrust, e.g. the engine on the left side bigger than the engine on the right. However, for the unsymmetrical ships, I find that the engine placements are logical, not to say that the ship design itself is the best.
For example, one side of the ferox has more engines than the other side (can't remember whether it's the port or starboard side). However, the side with more engines also has the engines closer to the main hull. The other side which has less engines are farther away from the hull. So, taking torque into account, the ferox should fly in a straight line down its center, as the torque of both sides of the hull are equal.
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inSpirAcy
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Aramendel
Reading comprehension people?
Where does the OP mention *anything* related to aerodynamics?
You don't get out much IRL, do you?
I was fully aware that aerodynamic means nothing in space as I wrote that, for want of a better word. But, you know, sometimes humour takes priority over pedantic nerdiness? 
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
I was fully aware that aerodynamic means nothing in space as I wrote that, for want of a better word...
Again, reading comprehenshion. What he wrote had as much to do with aerodynamics as with cooked noodles. "Aerodynamic means nothing in space" was never the issue, neither did I hint you wouldn't be aware of that.
Originally by: Kashke E'chara
It is strange to see ships which are symmetrical to have different ammount of engine thrust, e.g. the engine on the left side bigger than the engine on the right. However, for the unsymmetrical ships, I find that the engine placements are logical, not to say that the ship design itself is the best.
For example, one side of the ferox has more engines than the other side (can't remember whether it's the port or starboard side). However, the side with more engines also has the engines closer to the main hull. The other side which has less engines are farther away from the hull. So, taking torque into account, the ferox should fly in a straight line down its center, as the torque of both sides of the hull are equal.
Well, the ferox is exept it's middle engines almost perfectly symmetrical. But I mean, look at the raven, that on should perperpetually fly to the left.
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inSpirAcy
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Aramendel
Again, reading comprehenshion.
If you keep making sniping comments on people's ability to read, it's going to bite you in the end...
Originally by: Aramendel
What he wrote had as much to do with aerodynamics as with cooked noodles. "Aerodynamic means nothing in space" was never the issue, neither did I hint you wouldn't be aware of that.
The OP made no reference to aerodynamics. I made the first reference to it, for want of a better word.
Originally by: Aramendel
Where does the OP mention *anything* related to aerodynamics? It's about engine thrust.
And here's your little pedantic correction.
Oh look, it bit you.
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Aramendel
But I mean, look at the raven, that on should perperpetually fly to the left.
whats a Raven need to move for?
It just warps in and spams. 
Signature Remove, not Eve related. -ReverendM ([email protected] |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.09 10:35:00 -
[14]
The only person you are biting is yourself I'm afraid. But carry on, I can use some amusement while on autopilot.
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Khory Thunderstar
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:35:00 -
[15]
If you have problems with your Punisher, you really should try flying a Moa...
Or a Raven.... Scorpion..... or prativally anything thats Caldari...
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kessah
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:50:00 -
[16]
Edited by: kessah on 09/06/2006 12:50:32
Originally by: inSpirAcy
I always wondered how my Typhoon flies at all, with a huge rocket duct taped onto its side.
Although having said that, the rocket is probably the least of its aerodynamic worries...
Aerodynamics in space ROFL..
sorry but it is quite funny.
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http://www.eve-files.com/media/0604/Forever_pirate.wmv[/ur |
Kashke E'chara
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Posted - 2006.06.09 12:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: inSpirAcy
I was fully aware that aerodynamic means nothing in space as I wrote that, for want of a better word...
Again, reading comprehenshion. What he wrote had as much to do with aerodynamics as with cooked noodles. "Aerodynamic means nothing in space" was never the issue, neither did I hint you wouldn't be aware of that.
Originally by: Kashke E'chara
It is strange to see ships which are symmetrical to have different ammount of engine thrust, e.g. the engine on the left side bigger than the engine on the right. However, for the unsymmetrical ships, I find that the engine placements are logical, not to say that the ship design itself is the best.
For example, one side of the ferox has more engines than the other side (can't remember whether it's the port or starboard side). However, the side with more engines also has the engines closer to the main hull. The other side which has less engines are farther away from the hull. So, taking torque into account, the ferox should fly in a straight line down its center, as the torque of both sides of the hull are equal.
Well, the ferox is exept it's middle engines almost perfectly symmetrical. But I mean, look at the raven, that on should perperpetually fly to the left.
I looked at the raven after reading your post and I still believe in what I said.
The two engines on the starboard side is indeed farther from the "main" hull and based on my logic above, would indeed turn the raven to the left. However, there is also more mass (the bulking that also houses one of the engines) on the starboard side of the raven than the port side. It seems that the center of mass is inline with the flying bridge rather than the "beak" of the raven. So to achieve an even acceleration of the ship in a straight line, there should be an equal amount of thrust on both sides (port and starboard) of the flying bridge, BUT that is under the assumption that there is equal mass on both sides of the center of mass.
On the port side of the flying bridge, the "main" hull adds a lot of mass that the starboard side does not have. Thus, the port side need either more engines than the starboard side or more power engines. Indeed, there is the "main" engine that is much larger than the other engines on the starboard side of the center of mass.
In other words, the Raven will move in a straight line, though it wouldn't be my first choice for ship design.
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.09 13:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kashke E'chara
The two engines on the starboard side is indeed farther from the "main" hull and based on my logic above, would indeed turn the raven to the left. It seems that the center of mass is inline with the flying bridge rather than the "beak" of the raven. So to achieve an even acceleration of the ship in a straight line, there should be an equal amount of thrust on both sides (port and starboard) of the flying bridge, BUT that is under the assumption that there is equal mass on both sides of the center of mass.
On the port side of the flying bridge, the "main" hull adds a lot of mass that the starboard side does not have. Thus, the port side need either more engines than the starboard side or more power engines. Indeed, there is the "main" engine that is much larger than the other engines on the starboard side of the center of mass.
In other words, the Raven will move in a straight line, though it wouldn't be my first choice for ship design.
Edited: Removed potentially confusing sentence.
Yes, I noticed, too, that the ravens center of mass seems to be a little bit to the right side of the main engine. But it seems to me that this offcenter is actually *caused* by it's secondary engine which is almost as big as the main engine. If I remove it in my imagination the raven seems to be pretty symmetrical (ignoring the numerous small observation pods).
But this does of cource say nothing about the actual density map of the ship, so it can still be a (realistically) valid configuration.
It still looks kinda dumb, though.  And the Raven is harmless compared to monstrosities like the Blackbird or Griffin.
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Vathar
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Posted - 2006.06.09 13:29:00 -
[19]
Well, try flying a pod and wonder how it gets propelled (granted it's small and light, so I doesn't really need a powerful propulsion system, could be fun though)
____________
Space Shaman
Don't take life seriously, you'll not survive it anyway |
Panheimer
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Posted - 2006.06.09 13:44:00 -
[20]
because everything left is bigger ?
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.09 14:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Vathar
Well, try flying a pod and wonder how it gets propelled (granted it's small and light, so I doesn't really need a powerful propulsion system, could be fun though)
Beans. Lots of Beans.
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Astrum Ludus
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:04:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Astrum Ludus on 09/06/2006 15:04:38
Originally by: Aramendel
But, you know, sometimes humour takes priority over pedantic nerdiness?
YOU ARE HENCE FORTH BANNED FROM THE EVE-O FORUM
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Denwen
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:20:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Denwen on 09/06/2006 15:20:42
You know none of us know whats in these ships and where the center of mass is. Maybe the lighter side of the ship has fewer engines and the side with "ovepowered" engine design is where all the l337 machinery is that makes it run, yet wieghs 1 hojillion units of uber. Assuming the ship's mass is baced entirely on what you see outside is pointless. There are any number of excuses you could make to reason this out. So far as I know they coudnt go to NASA for their questions on warp drive mass and bulk.
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:33:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 09/06/2006 15:33:04
[pedantic mode on]
While we're on the subject, can we make all the ships in EVE maneuver properly? I want to see small reaction control rockets firing, and for slowing down I want to see my ship flip 180* so its main engines are firing off in the current direction of movement?
[/pedantic mode]
Signature Remove, not Eve related. -ReverendM ([email protected] |
GlimmerMan
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Posted - 2006.06.09 16:45:00 -
[25]
You sure it isn't just the same problem with one of the thrusters of the omen? - They're all the same size, but one has got the wrong coordinate on the long axis of the ship so it starts further back or forward (can't recall which) than where it should.
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Vathar
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Posted - 2006.06.10 01:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
While we're on the subject, can we make all the ships in EVE maneuver properly? I want to see small reaction control rockets firing, and for slowing down I want to see my ship flip 180* so its main engines are firing off in the current direction of movement?
Would look great on inties, but I wonder how an apoc doing a u-turn to fire main engines would look 8)
____________
Space Shaman
Don't take life seriously, you'll not survive it anyway |
Ikusa
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Posted - 2006.06.10 02:46:00 -
[27]
you kno there is aloso a foot space betwin the bottem part of the wing and the wing too.. and the flap things by the thruster... there are alot of misplaced items on amarr ships i rember something with the maller but i havent flown one in awhile so i cant rember what... hmm no not the GREEN eyebrows it has either
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Cruz
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Posted - 2006.06.10 06:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Angus Torg
Aerodynamic is probably one of your least important problems in space. The air is quite thin up there, you know...
Yah but symmetrical placement of engines IS a problem or else your ship is going to go all twisty turvy all the time.
Which is why some of the ships in this game make my head explode...
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Yual
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Posted - 2006.06.10 06:28:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Yual on 10/06/2006 06:30:34
On the F-15, the engines are canted twords the center of mass rather than pointing straight ahead and use variable exhaust topology to compensate so the thrust is always through the center of mass. This slightly reduces the effeciency of the engine due to the fact that instead of 100% of the thrust of both engines being used to propel it forwards, instead part of the thrust of each engine is used to counter its distance from the center line of the plane. This allows the plane to continue in straight flight even if one engine is disabled.
Also the center of mass isnt always the center of symmetry. Placement of subsystems, thickening of the armor to protect certain vital areas, extra reinforcement for structural integrity, cargo mass/placement, etc all can shift the center of mass from the "perceived" or visual center of the ship.
But yeah, sounds more like someone messed up with a value setting on the con trails
Edit: I always figured the engine "pod" out to the side on my 'phoon was an expediant that allowed the minmatar to shift things around(or let things fall off) and instead of having to adjust the thrust vector on the main drive, just compensate with the outrigger.
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Draahk Chimera
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Posted - 2006.06.10 07:25:00 -
[30]
The pod is propelled by the force of the cruise missiles bluntly inserted into your ships hull. :)
And when you jump your pod into a gate camp in 3-F its propelled by sheer willpower :D
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