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Foulis	Posted - 2006.06.11 23:41:00 - [31] Ruptures with 650mms, Thrashers with 280mms, Kestrels (=D). ---- Cake > Pie - Imaran Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
Mordocik	Posted - 2006.06.11 23:48:00 - [32] Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 11/06/2006 23:38:17 Originally by: Ryoko Sakada Heya recently my corp of young aspiring pvP pilots (3 months average)have been fighting a corp of 1-2 year veterans. We've done fine, being about equal in ISK loss if not number of kills. Recently though, they've started using gangs of 5-6 Crows setup for long range and 20km scrambling. They stay out of web and medium nos range, and disengage as soon as a BS with heavy nos shows. Light drones also don't seem to cut it. So, given the low sp's of 95% of my pilots, how would you deal with this? Help would be appreciated :D Cruisers with frig weapons. for example tanked Maller with medium beam lasers ... bye bye crows, af's, destroyers, the beams can hit at about 30 Km and have more then enough tracking to hit the intys. You won't hit them. All of the above suggestions KIND of work, with the most effective being the spread out and use webs. The real problem though is how fast are the crows going? If the crows are going close to 4km then turrets just won't hit them (unless we are talking tech 2 ships + good skills things like eagles etc). All he talk of missiles is rubbish as well, as again short of big skill points for tech 2 missile skills (ie precision) the speed will negate the missiles dmg so much as to once again be ineffective. Realistically though it's not likely that your opponents are that experienced in flying crows so they will probably make mistakes on approach / warp out where they drop their speed so thrashers with 250s (280's have a lot worse tracking)howies you should have a good chance of getting them, but make no mistake, if you are fighting 6 fast crows you will need tech 2 + skills to defeat them if they are any good.
Tadis	Posted - 2006.06.12 00:12:00 - [33] Caracels fitted out like that would be what, 1/3 price of a crow? A tech II crow... maybe 1/5 price. So taking 1 out for the loss of a caracel... not too bad ^^ If your boys are gallente tho, imo catalyst. Plated up (because of the low fitting req of the 75mm). A good few catalyst can go through inties (was testing with my bro, and a Crusader orbiting at 4.2k/s at ranges from 5-20k he got hit). Unfortunately imo arty's are going to be useless against Crow pilots. Because by the sounds of it, your against very cautious Crow pilots (i.e missle spam from range rather than rocket up) so I doubt they will even risk getting near to web/nos even if they are damped, they'll stay at their safety range or warp out/in. So best go for durability, and guns that can track them even when orbiting out at 19k odd. And remember, crows are expensive. You may loose ships, but if you more collatoral to them, go home smiling :) ___________________________________ NRG Recruiting
Foulis	Posted - 2006.06.12 00:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Tadis Unfortunately imo arty's are going to be useless against Crow pilots. Because by the sounds of it, your against very cautious Crow pilots (i.e missle spam from range rather than rocket up) so I doubt they will even risk getting near to web/nos even if they are damped, they'll stay at their safety range or warp out/in. So you'd want to use long range guns, like say artillery. 280mms will wtfpwn inties at 15-20km. ---- Cake > Pie - Imaran Originally by: CCP Hammer Boobies
Audri Fisher	Posted - 2006.06.12 00:24:00 - [35] well, if you can do this with your skills, 6 150 mm tech II's 2 tracking comps, 2 sensor boosters and a mag stab in lows use spike ammo. that is a sniping setup, with skills you get around 87km optimal with that short range gank is 7 125 mm tech II guns 3 tracking comps. kinetic active hardener mag stab in low. If they aren't extended to hell with a med shield extender II, they die 1 vs 1 fast, I have never gotten halway through armor with that .
Dorah Hawkwing	Posted - 2006.06.12 01:09:00 - [36] Low Sp Caracals won't have missiles fast enough to engage the average fast crow. They go over 5km/s, wich is faster than missiles and missiles explosions in my experience. Destroyers with 125mm can track very fast and leave room for extenders (wich buy you time) Same goes for destroyers with dual light beams. No experience on Minni ones. Don't forget your web for those who try to get under your guns. Try to fly in larger gangs than 2, as well. 2-3 destroyers prepared for such usually will hurt a crow badly. Destryoers are cheaper than caracals, too. Your foes will read teh forums, as well.
gfldex	Posted - 2006.06.12 01:21:00 - [37] Use 2 target painters and high tracking med turrets. Long range ceptors pop quite fast and you wont scare them off as you would with damps or ECM. -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
Tadis	Posted - 2006.06.12 02:17:00 - [38] Originally by: Foulis So you'd want to use long range guns, like say artillery. 280mms will wtfpwn inties at 15-20km. Chances are by the time you get a lock on the Crow it will already have entered its orbit and engaged its MWD. Ever tried tracking a 4km/s Crow on a 15k orbit with 280's? No thankyou :) ___________________________________ NRG Recruiting
Audrea	Posted - 2006.06.12 02:38:00 - [39] sensor dampers wont work even for defence, since they would simply switch to FoF missiles ------------------ If you are tired of fleet combat lag, post HERE All posts are my personal opinions.
Waenn Ironstaff	Posted - 2006.06.12 02:45:00 - [40] FoF missiles are the complete suck. Your best bet is to use Destroyer. Pretty inexpensive but require at least all gunnery skills to level 3-4 to make good use of them. I don't know how effective Thrashers are with Artillery but I know that a matching numbers of Cormorants and Catalysts should provide for a good match. You can try several setup for Cormy. Either a full rack of 75mm rails (best tracking but low damage and lack of range) and use 2 medium extenders to give you a nice passive tank (don't forget the invul field). The other setup makes use of 125mm rails, better range and dmg, good tracking but the tank takes a hit. You can go with a small extender + small booster and the rest of the slots with a mix of EWAR. I'd go with the first option as it gives you a good tank and damage won't be an issue if you can focus the fire on a single interceptor at the time.
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.06.12 02:56:00 - [41] A BB gun will do the trick...
Aramova	Posted - 2006.06.12 03:30:00 - [42] Thanatos; Highs: 5x Drone Link Augs Mids: 2x Sensor Booster II 3x Drone Nav Computer Low: Tank of choice 9x or 10x (if you have carrier 5) Warrior II's Works quite well -- signature nerfed due to 700 bytes :(
The MelonMan	Posted - 2006.06.12 03:59:00 - [43] Originally by: Bazman crows orbiting at 15 to 20km tend to go fast enough to reduce missle damage, even from light missles. I like the instagank solution. Thrashers with arties will gank them before they can react and run away Yes they reduce damage but when the alliance i was in was at war with mercs they used crows and other intys and i could take their shield and armor down with 1-2 volleys with an assault caracal. Its once they mwd out of range that is the poroblem.
Altrex Stoppel	Posted - 2006.06.12 04:35:00 - [44] Originally by: HippoKing Get everyone in thrashers with arties, and you will one volley them Thatll be a shock. Also, consider fitting sensor damps so they can't lock you from outside web range Best advice yet, 280s with sensor boosters will get you the same range as them and concentrated fire will destroy them in one volley easy. Originally by: HippoKing This is not the raven you are looking for.
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2006.06.12 05:31:00 - [45] This is the hidden secret with dealing with crows. I might get killed for saying this but I don't care anymore. It has to come out and it's time this hidden secret is known. So everyone including myself can be safe from the all mighty wrath that is known the "Crow". So here it is. The secret - MWD to gate and jump Spread the word! --------------- Vile - Recruiting 0.0 Pirates ---------------
Leon 026	Posted - 2006.06.12 05:40:00 - [46] A pack (yes, I did say PACK, ie plural) of Caracal cruiser with x5 assault launchers and ECM in the mid-slots, and watch them run. ------------------------------- [20:05:51] Cyshade > Leon 026, making Crow BPO owners trillionaires since 29.08.2005
Ryoko Sakada	Posted - 2006.06.12 05:59:00 - [47] The "spread and web" technique certainly seems to make them back off. They started having trouble keeping range, which resulted in a few of them exploding and getting podded (which cost more than our whole gang in fact). Thanks for the help guys :D
Systra	Posted - 2006.06.12 07:31:00 - [48] hrm. a vexor with medium drones seems to kill very quickly any frigs and intys
Flaming sambuka	Posted - 2006.06.12 07:41:00 - [49] Edited by: Flaming sambuka on 12/06/2006 07:42:09 Originally by: Systra hrm. a vexor with medium drones seems to kill very quickly any frigs and intys Change those drones to lights and you got a nice anti-inty boat. Still if you can use caracals with assault launchers, nothin takes out intys as fast as a caracal with assaults.
Systra	Posted - 2006.06.12 07:44:00 - [50] Originally by: Flaming sambuka Edited by: Flaming sambuka on 12/06/2006 07:42:09 Originally by: Systra hrm. a vexor with medium drones seems to kill very quickly any frigs and intys Change those drones to lights and you got a nice anti-inty boat. Still if you can use caracals with assault launchers, nothin takes out intys as fast as a caracal with assaults. the thing is, with t2 valks, i dont web the target, they can more than keep up with any orbiting inty. they drop in 10-15seconds tops
Ozzie Asrail	Posted - 2006.06.12 07:57:00 - [51] Snipe them Get a few of your guys into long range snipers. As long as you can get, iirc destoryers can easy reach 60km+ and moa can 100km+. Destroyers, moa's or any other turret ship filled with sensor boosters and tracking computers\enhancers. Also try Dread guristas iron ammo (or other faction long range ammo?), not too expensive really for jsut 500 rounds and much moire dmg than regular iron. Bait them out with a easy looking target, a super tanked cruier or bc then have all your snipers warp into the bait at 100km and all target the SAME crow (best if you can get on TS and someone calls primary). I guarentee it'll insta pop within a couple of vollies. ----- Geotech is recruiting!
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.12 08:06:00 - [52] OK, enough already. Train Target Jamming to level 1 Mount Caldari racial jammers (gravometric ones) Win Testy's Eve Blog, Updated 12/06/06
BaneMaker	Posted - 2006.06.12 08:08:00 - [53] QFT!
Mirasta	Posted - 2006.06.12 08:18:00 - [54] Carra+ECM+Target painters+BCU=win
Kinsy	Posted - 2006.06.12 09:48:00 - [55] Curses are awesome anti-inty platforms, too. Drop one nos on each inty and watch everything on it shut down immediately.
DeadDuck	Posted - 2006.06.12 09:58:00 - [56] Edited by: DeadDuck on 12/06/2006 10:06:08 Originally by: Mordocik Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 11/06/2006 23:38:17 Originally by: Ryoko Sakada Heya recently my corp of young aspiring pvP pilots (3 months average)have been fighting a corp of 1-2 year veterans. We've done fine, being about equal in ISK loss if not number of kills. Recently though, they've started using gangs of 5-6 Crows setup for long range and 20km scrambling. They stay out of web and medium nos range, and disengage as soon as a BS with heavy nos shows. Light drones also don't seem to cut it. So, given the low sp's of 95% of my pilots, how would you deal with this? Help would be appreciated :D Cruisers with frig weapons. for example tanked Maller with medium beam lasers ... bye bye crows, af's, destroyers, the beams can hit at about 30 Km and have more then enough tracking to hit the intys. You won't hit them. All of the above suggestions KIND of work, with the most effective being the spread out and use webs. The real problem though is how fast are the crows going? If the crows are going close to 4km then turrets just won't hit them (unless we are talking tech 2 ships + good skills things like eagles etc). All he talk of missiles is rubbish as well, as again short of big skill points for tech 2 missile skills (ie precision) the speed will negate the missiles dmg so much as to once again be ineffective. Realistically though it's not likely that your opponents are that experienced in flying crows so they will probably make mistakes on approach / warp out where they drop their speed so thrashers with 250s (280's have a lot worse tracking)howies you should have a good chance of getting them, but make no mistake, if you are fighting 6 fast crows you will need tech 2 + skills to defeat them if they are any good. Believe me they will hit... and you probably will never kill a crow like this, because they will warp away with severe damage, but you will stay alive The only hope for the intys is going close range, and in close range you will have the webbers, the scrams, the NOS waiting. It will be more effective if they can fit the tec2 beams, but intys vs cruiser with frig weapons, they dont have a chance. I fought several times in 1 vs 4 and 1 vs 6 and never died ... the inty part cannot say the same
Bean Doodle	Posted - 2006.06.12 10:00:00 - [57] did yall say something about cheese??? ...never mind can't believe no one has mentioned webber drones (someone might have, I havent read all the posts) webber drones are built just with the purpose of scaring the living kabroodle out of inty pilots outside of webbing range. web drones web drones web drones... altho they do take 25m3 and only web for -30% so they might gimp some setups. but if each off your corpslaves has a web drone each you'll keel them. now, i need to eat a loaf of bread, with cheese!!! --- Bean Doodle, WIN's private Spammer, Whiner, Begger, Commmon-Enemy, L33t-Sp33ching-teen and POS suicider.
Xachar	Posted - 2006.06.12 10:07:00 - [58] Goonfleet has had this problem for a while, our enemies love to gank young players with riced out interceptors. We found ECW to be very effective. Try Blackbirds if you are caldari, you can fit a mean tank and you can web, scramble and jam them to hell while fitting 3 assault launchers and a medium nos. 3x assault launcher 1x med nos 3x caldari racial jammers 1x warp disruptor 2x stasis webifiers 1x cap relay 1x 800mm plate This costs like 4m, like half the price of a caracal and it mows throught interceptors with its large amount of mids. Take a small bunch of these and you will lock down and obliverate the enemy.
DeadDuck	Posted - 2006.06.12 10:17:00 - [59] Originally by: Xachar Goonfleet has had this problem for a while, our enemies love to gank young players with riced out interceptors. We found ECW to be very effective. Try Blackbirds if you are caldari, you can fit a mean tank and you can web, scramble and jam them to hell while fitting 3 assault launchers and a medium nos. 3x assault launcher 1x med nos 3x caldari racial jammers 1x warp disruptor 2x stasis webifiers 1x cap relay 1x 800mm plate This costs like 4m, like half the price of a caracal and it mows throught interceptors with its large amount of mids. Take a small bunch of these and you will lock down and obliverate the enemy. Good call
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.12 11:06:00 - [60] Originally by: Tadis Originally by: Foulis So you'd want to use long range guns, like say artillery. 280mms will wtfpwn inties at 15-20km. Chances are by the time you get a lock on the Crow it will already have entered its orbit and engaged its MWD. Ever tried tracking a 4km/s Crow on a 15k orbit with 280's? No thankyou :) Tanked ship as bait, warp the thrashers in with 3 sensor boosters :)

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