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Ryoko Sakada	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:21:00 - [1] Heya recently my corp of young aspiring pvP pilots (3 months average)have been fighting a corp of 1-2 year veterans. We've done fine, being about equal in ISK loss if not number of kills. Recently though, they've started using gangs of 5-6 Crows setup for long range and 20km scrambling. They stay out of web and medium nos range, and disengage as soon as a BS with heavy nos shows. Light drones also don't seem to cut it. So, given the low sp's of 95% of my pilots, how would you deal with this? Help would be appreciated :D
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:24:00 - [2] Which light drones have you used? Light drone is not = light drone. Warriors are the best anti-inty drone due to being very fast and having the best tracking
Ginaz	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:24:00 - [3] use destroyers
Ryoko Sakada	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:25:00 - [4] Destroyers explode faster than inties when hit by 18 light missiles we found :( Will try switching to warriors nex then, thanks :)
Ginaz	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:27:00 - [5] Edited by: Ginaz on 11/06/2006 21:31:50 drones pop as fast as your destroyers. 6 destroyers will stand a quite good chance against 6 crows. they might not win the battle but they might cause bigger loss to your enemy then you recieve from them. Destroyer = cheap + lot of guns fired at once at the same target Crows = 20mil + Edit: And you can hit long range crows fairly well
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:33:00 - [6] Get everyone in thrashers with arties, and you will one volley them Thatll be a shock. Also, consider fitting sensor damps so they can't lock you from outside web range
Ryoko Sakada	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:34:00 - [7] Hmm-we'll have to try a gang full then. i think the problem in the past is with only 1 or 2 in a gang, the Crows can just target them and 1 volley each.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:34:00 - [8] Firstly, sensor damps are a great way of bring long-range interceptors into range. A Crow with Long Range Targeting 5 has a 37.5km lock range. Bring along a Celestis and with Cruiser 4 your sensor damps will take them down to 38.4% of their original range, which is 14.4km. Put 2 damps on them and they will have to get within nos/web range in order to get a lock. Secondly, spread out and fit webs. If they orbit at 20km, keep 15km between each of your ships. One is bound to enter within 10km of one ship while orbiting another, and it can then be webbed and shot by all. Thirdly, try using a tanked ship as bait and then warping in at long range and sniping them (Moa, Rupture and Destoyers are good for this). Forthly, use warrior drones. As you have very poor skillpoints, make sure that everyone puts their drones on the same target. This is paramount, otherwise they will shrug off the damage. Good luck!
Ginaz	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Sarmaul Firstly, sensor damps are a great way of bring long-range interceptors into range. A Crow with Long Range Targeting 5 has a 37.5km lock range. Bring along a Celestis and with Cruiser 4 your sensor damps will take them down to 38.4% of their original range, which is 14.4km. Put 2 damps on them and they will have to get within nos/web range in order to get a lock. Secondly, spread out and fit webs. If they orbit at 20km, keep 15km between each of your ships. One is bound to enter within 10km of one ship while orbiting another, and it can then be webbed and shot by all. Thirdly, try using a tanked ship as bait and then warping in at long range and sniping them (Moa, Rupture and Destoyers are good for this). Forthly, use warrior drones. As you have very poor skillpoints, make sure that everyone puts their drones on the same target. This is paramount, otherwise they will shrug off the damage. Good luck! QFT Well i tried to keep it simple but above is a very good tactic P.S.: Fit plates, hardeners or shield extenders on the destroyers and they won't one volley them
Ryoko Sakada	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:38:00 - [10] Thanks guys-we'll try all of those very shortly no doubt. i never even thought of spreading the gang out with webs :( Sensor damps sound perfect too. They actually really don't do too much damage, it's the 20km orbit that hurts. Perfect :)
Deva Blackfire	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:39:00 - [11] Dura-setup cruisers (duramaller/durarax) with long range small guns (dual/medium beams/rails etc). They dont have a chance to kill it fast and you deal enough damage to scare them off/pop them.
Flaming sambuka	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:49:00 - [12] Trust meh, if you want to get rid of those crows (and quick) then get a small gang of caracals together (say 3-4) with 5x assault launchers each and just go n pwn em. caracals PWN intys .
Deros	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:55:00 - [13] Rapier / Huginn >> Crow ;) D
Bren Kasir	Posted - 2006.06.11 21:57:00 - [14] All the above suggestions are very good. I would particularly recommend gangs of caracals as with reasonable skills you'll outrange the crows happily. Using damps is good for defense but they most likely won't close to web range, they'll just warp out and back in to re-establish a lock and avoid getting heavily engaged. Specialist anti-inty caracals will pwn them, just remember to all fire on the primary and it'll die in a volley. Fit some 20k scramblers yourselves to make sure they can't lock you down and you can engage with impunity. Bren Kasir --- You want fries with that?
Ryoko Sakada	Posted - 2006.06.11 22:01:00 - [15] Deros, i'm sure you're right. 3 month pilots usually don't fly them though :D Caracals will also go on the "Dirty tricks list" then :)
DKDane	Posted - 2006.06.11 22:01:00 - [16] get a few harpys
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.11 22:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Deros Rapier / Huginn >> Crow ;) D Low skillpoint characters. Believe me I would've been the first to suggest it otherwise :)
Phelan Lore	Posted - 2006.06.11 22:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Flaming sambuka Trust meh, if you want to get rid of those crows (and quick) then get a small gang of caracals together (say 3-4) with 5x assault launchers each and just go n pwn em. caracals PWN intys . This won't work unless you can use precisions.
Bren Kasir	Posted - 2006.06.11 22:29:00 - [19] Edited by: Bren Kasir on 11/06/2006 22:29:53 Lies. I took an assault caracal out to 200km from a friendly gate camp to bait in some inties. Taranis and crusader come in to play and the crusader leaves in structure one and a half volleys later, the ranis ran when it saw the damage. That was with t1 light missiles (em/thermal/kinetic loadout) and t2 assault launchers for the ROF. BTW the caracal was at a lowly 80% shield (untanked) when they left. Bren Kasir EDIT: If your targets are gisti crows then precisions will indeed be far more effective, and worth the isk as well. --- You want fries with that?
Reku Haag	Posted - 2006.06.11 22:40:00 - [20] I agree with the people saying use caracals. A few caracals setup with 5 assault launchers, 2 large shield extenders and 2 BCUs should beat them no trouble. I have taken on a pair of inties in a caracal setup this way, killed one and the other ranaway half dead(crow and taranis). I still had about 60% shield. This was back when I had about 1 mil SP. My missile and shield skills were pretty minimal, yes the enemy pilots may have been rubbish. If you can get a few of these even with poor skilled pilots it should be very effective.
Ryoko Sakada	Posted - 2006.06.11 22:49:00 - [21] Sounds perfect. Loads of Caldari pilots in corp too :p
Bazman	Posted - 2006.06.11 22:53:00 - [22] crows orbiting at 15 to 20km tend to go fast enough to reduce missle damage, even from light missles. I like the instagank solution. Thrashers with arties will gank them before they can react and run away ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.11 22:56:00 - [23] So, you've established that they're afraid of BS with heavy nos. So: 1) Give them some bait (tanked cruisers or somesuch would do it I guess) 2) Have your Nos BS ready to warp in to your bait 3) Drop your Nos BS (with webs too!) in the middle of the enemy ships via a calculated warpin 4) Bring in the rest of your ships of choice to kill them You've found a way to do it yourself, just capitalise on what you know. Testy's Eve Blog, Updated 01/06/06
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.06.11 22:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Bazman crows orbiting at 15 to 20km tend to go fast enough to reduce missle damage, even from light missles. I like the instagank solution. Thrashers with arties will gank them before they can react and run away Actually, Thrashers with arties tend to miss fast orbitting inties unless they're webbed. Artillery is still artillery, and all the tracking problems that has go along with it. Tracking bonuses are all good, but inties going at 3.5km/s upward still laugh at your guns. Testy's Eve Blog, Updated 01/06/06
Tadis	Posted - 2006.06.11 23:13:00 - [25] catalysts with 75mm. Soon adds up with 8 x for each. ___________________________________ NRG Recruiting
Crellion	Posted - 2006.06.11 23:13:00 - [26] Average Crow either cant run mwd and 20km scram for any serious amount of time or it can but has next to no tank (there is 1 exception which I doubt they are flying from the descriptions you gave). Try to have 1 Caracal on each Crow so they think the dmg is tankable and then the after 1-2 volleys concentrate your fire. It will be instapop or fairly close... 150 rails on desys are good too (with lead or something) but they dont fit with a tank (thought you could fit 3-4 150s per dessy and some 75s with iron or something to allow for some tank). Take your gang ratting and practice calling targets a bit (or do it with frig practice in-corp). However from all the above advice spacing out is the best. Almost nobody can manually maintain a 20km orbit so they ll be in trouble.
Bazman	Posted - 2006.06.11 23:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Bazman crows orbiting at 15 to 20km tend to go fast enough to reduce missle damage, even from light missles. I like the instagank solution. Thrashers with arties will gank them before they can react and run away Actually, Thrashers with arties tend to miss fast orbitting inties unless they're webbed. Artillery is still artillery, and all the tracking problems that has go along with it. Tracking bonuses are all good, but inties going at 3.5km/s upward still laugh at your guns. I've been victimised by a gank rifter with 280's while flying a raptor around it at 3.2km's @ 15km :P Thrashers should be able to thwack them no problem with thier tracking bonus ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2006.06.11 23:27:00 - [28] A group of Destroyers with damps, webs, and dmg mods should do the trick. The damps will bring them in closer, the webs will slow them down and if you focus fire you'll easily 1 volly crow's. Shamis
Kyoko Sakoda	Posted - 2006.06.11 23:28:00 - [29] Poor, poor alt of mine. Wait a sec... Learn what it means to be Caldari - www.omertasyndicate.com
DeadDuck	Posted - 2006.06.11 23:35:00 - [30] Originally by: Ryoko Sakada Heya recently my corp of young aspiring pvP pilots (3 months average)have been fighting a corp of 1-2 year veterans. We've done fine, being about equal in ISK loss if not number of kills. Recently though, they've started using gangs of 5-6 Crows setup for long range and 20km scrambling. They stay out of web and medium nos range, and disengage as soon as a BS with heavy nos shows. Light drones also don't seem to cut it. So, given the low sp's of 95% of my pilots, how would you deal with this? Help would be appreciated :D Cruisers with frig weapons. for example tanked Maller with medium beam lasers ... bye bye crows, af's, destroyers, cruisers, the beams can hit at about 30 Km and have more then enough tracking to hit the poor intys

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