Is this bonus a linear function of the number of modules of that type, or some higher-order scaling?

Did you implement any of the ideas that were thrown out to limit the number of jobs that could benefit from this sort of bonus simultaneously?

Oh! Also, what is the basis for activity on this SiSi release? Copied from Tranquility, or native?

Ok,

I logged on Sisi and have a quick look at the new templates for reprocessing for example. I am 0.0 but are the station basic station's or will they have what ever upgrades are in them as with current Tranquilty settings? I cant get access to a station service as I aint an owner.

Hope that made sense!

Vic

Greyscale, two issues of note right off the bat:

* People are having severe trouble running jobs due to cost issues.
* There are no teams for rigs, though there are teams for station egg / component construction.

Please fix :)

Per tower or per system? In other words can a conglomerate corporation with multiple poses in one system have even better reduction or is it for specified tower only?

you can understand them

This was actually one of the major promises that were made. May I get developer comment on this: is allowing players to use blueprints that are inside containers still something you're planning to do and haven't gotten to yet, or have you scrapped the idea due to coding issues?

From what I hear of the current SiSi build, it's not nearly as big an issue as it seemed when it was first promised. But it'd still be a nice feature to have when you're juggling several tens of thousand BPCs.

Edit:

Welp. I should update SiSi instead of relying on word of mouth.

http://i.imgur.com/ZmjbwIF.png

Are teams part of the landscape? I assume so. Some of their values are bugged.

I have at least 20,000 BPCs and BPOs in my alt corp (or at least that's where I stopped counting). The system is completely overwhelmed by it and sorting/finding the item you want to manufacture is not working in a usable way.

Also, existing 10 run T2 Drone BPCs have been reduced to ME6 BPCs with one (1) run. Is that what is intended?

Hey

I got a few questions may have missed someone mention this or it was in a dev blog.

Will tax in a system be effected if you inventing or building at a pos and also whats stopping me in empire from spamming all the moons with control towers to stop other people raising the cost to build invent copy etc if it does raise cost. Thinking along the lines of systems with no stations.

Again i might have missed something along the line still in test server. But nice job so far although i cant build muninns and few other things atm on test server due to price information being incorrect or something.

shaun

Well, it seems for T2 manufacturing, you now need 2 T1 variation items to build

I know this was brought up by some players as being a possibility with the removal of extra materials, but we were also told by CCP (Cannot remember which dev), that something will be put in place to ensure only 1 of the T1 variation items will be required

So, is this a feature or a bug? (I assume bug, but you never know these days)

I see teams for "Capital Construction Components" such as Capital Armor Plates, but no place for "Advanced Capital Construction Components" such as Capital Fernite Carbide Composite Armor Plates

Come to think of it, I didnt see any for advanced construction components either IE regular T2 components used to make T2 ships etc.

Is this an oversight? Intended? or am I just blind?

Quick look today. Amazing! A few comments

1) skill
Just checked that Material Efficiency skill didnt change. Any plan for it?

2) install cost
Really like the cost decreasing by number of runs. You should keep that way, without limit.

3) material cost
Love the change to apply ME on total batch. That change alone is amazing. Stimulate long runs and Makes reserch useful even to small rigs. Wish i had a t2 bpo to check if you get a "free hull" on long runs....

I was under the impression that we would have the ability to set the job install tax rate at a POS. Did that not make it in, or was the idea scrapped?

I was really looking forward to bottom up income from industry members.

Hope that means some kind of stacking penalty. Otherwise Highsec is going to be littered with POSes that contain only 1 type of module.

Wasn't there an expectation that elimination of research and manufacturing slots would reduce the number and size of POSes such that the isotope market would crash so badly that a demand increase was required in another area?

1 - What will happen to job running remotly on pos lab when Crius will be deployed ?

a - when done, BPO will return to corp hangar or Pos hangar ?

b - jobs will finish ?

2 - Will members will still see in the ui BPC that are in cans that they cannot view or know of in directors restricted level hangar ?

3 - Some of corp BPO disapeared (they were locked down) since the patch on Sisi, they were in progress or ready to deliver but they just vanished.. Can we get them back ? Will that happen with the real patch ?

Will you need to have max run bpcs for max run on invention as atm i cant seem to invent or copy anything. If you do need max runs will you look at copying time because for instance (@ pos with maxed skills) copying 1 curator 200 run is like 18 hours per bpc.

Invention error @ pos

Unable to install job due to the following reasons:
FACILITY_TYPE
The job cost has changed

---

Error.FACILITY_TYPE (23564,)
Error.MISMATCH_COST (22, 25)

Copying error on both new and researched blueprints @ pos

Unable to install job due to the following reasons:
The job cost has changed

---

Error.MISMATCH_COST (3976, 3890)

Also as i stated in a previous post here regarding tax ie system cost index. Will i be able to spam all the moons in a none system station to keep this cost down and stop other people raising it Or is this a constant price and isnt effected by amount of industry related jobs, Because you said that theirs no tax at pos's and i kinda see this as tax tbh. I assume this would be 0 in player owned systems and lower in low sec but shouldn't corps with standings towards a certain faction get a reduction on this cost if it is the case that pos's get charged system cost index (shouldnt be better then low sec or 0.0 though even with high standings)

shaun

Imagine a scenario:
I am a big industrialist, like to do things properly (=perfect).
I focus on the production of a single item type, consider job installation costs, teams etc.
Of course, I want to manufacture in a starbase to get the small material bonus.
Now, I can reduce job installation costs by the use of multiple arrays (max. roughly 25% if I cram as many arrays as possible into a large POS).
Of course I am very spacerich and thinking long-term, so initial investments don't bother me. And I laugh about risks ofc. :-D
Slightly simplified, I have the following choices:

a) Small tower, pay around 100mISK per month in fuel, get about 6% job installation cost reduction (~25% max bonus, ~25% thereof will fit into a small tower)
b) Medium tower, 200mISK fuel, 12% discount
c) large tower, 400mISK fuel, 24% discount

As you can see, all POSes have the same throughput due to no slot limits.
So I will always choose a) UNLESS 6% discount save me more than 100mISK per month, in which case I will always choose c).
If I need to save 100mISK with the 6% discount, my monthly job installation costs will have to be higher than 1.666bil ISK.

It is assumed in the dev blog that typically the job installation costs range from 1-5% of the value of produced goods.
Assume I am in a somewhat heavy duty industrial hub since I want that special team that saves some material.
Normally I would pay around 8% of my produced goods value as job installation cost.

Which means I need to produce 20.8333 bil ISK in goods per month before a large POS can even start to become profitable.

Conclusion:
Unless I am using like 10 toons 24/7 on the same POS on the same type of goods, I will always choose setup a).

Although I really like the idea of a stacking bonus, I suspect the current proposal to be a too weak incentive to put up large towers - also quite far away from making this a "meaningful" choice in practically all relevant scenarios.
I therefore expect corresponding effects on fuel and PI demand in general.

Anything I missed?

Having realised that, how about killing standings for market fees and locator agents, neither of which have anything to do with missioning, the only way to raise standing currently?

EDIT: Ahem, technically I guess you can raise standing by fw promotions too.

You can get agent / npc corp standings in an "industrial way" - courier / distribution missions. Raising standings with NPC corps through submitting industry jobs? Hmmm.... :) How could that be scaled, so that it takes a similar amount of time or effort to raise standings, compared to existing methods? I think there would have to be an "over time period" element. Without a time check, a player might quickly reach high standings, by submitting a ton of low cost ammo jobs, or a few very large and expensive jobs.

I have surfed SiSi and can't find ANYWHERE to set tax or even set restriction on production lines in a player owned station

Can you please tell me where I can find these settings, I am at the point of frustration, i have clicked every thing i can think of and the game is having its way with me and it is payback time.

So I just tried to research a crystalline carbonide armor plate blueprint to level 1 ME...

The quote said just under a minute, but when I put the job in, it went in for just over 6 hours and one minute...

However after a minute or so went by, the job was able to be delivered. Must just be a display bug.

Will we be getting rig teams? This is an issue near and dear to my heart.

I know greyscale saw it I just didn't see a comment.

Also, currently I am getting 0% success chance of capital trimark inventions on sisi right now.

Blowing away my pos, while understandable, makes it hard to test these things without some spinup time.

Also I just invented a BPC with no decryptors and a 0/0 input BPC and it came out ME 2% PE 4% I thought everything was being rebalanced so that it was ME 0 PE 0 base with decryptors giving you a bonus?

Additionally I found that the materials required to build were equivalent to -4.5 ME of the old system...

Lastly, I found that the RAM tech tools have not yet been changed over yet... :(

Greyscale: You're correct that we are taxing ourselves, but the tax has a purpose. InGame we have to pay fuel costs. Members of a corp object to paying for features they don't use....Mission Runners and miners don't like to pay for fuel costs unless its in low/null sec or in a wormhole. The 'CURRENT' game allows the assignment of job install costs and cost per hour. Some CEO's/POS Managers will factor the fuel cost per CPU and POWER on the tower and assign charges to the POS module slots based of the amount of fuel consumed. This allows a corp the ability to charge members that use the facilities.

How will I be able to do that when we transition to Crius?

The posted change about removing damage and multiplying by 100 etc...

Have t2 BPO's have their base build cost permanently adjusted 35% upward, along with new material requirements added on all non ammo BPO's?

T2 Ship BPO's seem to be capped at 9 runs at a time, t2 drones are at 19, t2 modules are at 9 and t2 ammo is capped at 19 max runs per install. Seems like a bug?

It is the opposite for me, every blueprint I invent ends up on 1 run no matter how many runs on tech I copy.

Why not change decryptors so that they just work as a run multiplier instead? "You get max runs times decryptor output multiplier"?

Example: former +0 runs decryptor get x1 multiplier instead. And a ship bpc invented with former +0 runs decryptor gets max runs(1) x multiplier = 1 run. Former +9 runs decryptor gets x10 multiplier so the ship bpc invented with this gets max runs(1) x multiplier = 10 runs.

This will also fix the decryptors usage for modules and ammunition allowing to multiply 10 default runs by x10 from a max run decryptor instead of just getting 10+9.

Max runs are 10 on Adaptive Invul Field II, I'm still getting 1 run on a T2 BPC after inventing.

sorry, apparently I was just looking at the show info window :( my bad...

Any thoughts on the 25% discount I seem to be getting for manufacturing in a POS instead of a station?

EDIT: to clarify, right now I seem to be getting a 25% material discount not a 25% job cost discount. When i put a BPC in for manufacturing at a POS, the build quote is 25% less than when I put that same BPC in at a station.

I think there's still a bug there that Nullabor's got on his to-fix list.

Out of curiosity...what is the cut-off date for deciding too much is still broken to attempt to deploy in 1 months time....and or how many of these known (or otherwise obviously broken issues) bugs will be considered acceptable to deploy to TQ anyways.

I only ask because "will push for a fix next week hopefully" with only 5 weeks to deployment (after this whole thing was already pulled out of a release) makes me a bit leery.

After spending a while getting my reprocessing spreadsheet to work properly it was time to do my cap con sheet.

looked round the S&I interface and while yes it looks pretty, it lacks certain features.

Can't filter for BPO/BPC
No group so can't easily find "Carriers" need to type the ship name into the filter box
Hate the way that moving the scroll wheel on the mouse changes the 'Job Runs'

That aside, I started working on figures.

Started with a ME7% Nidhoggur

Ooh pretty icons on the top left for the components, but they seem to be in a weird order, not alphabetical (Propulsion engine first) thanks for making my life just a bit more difficult grrr

ok, so I need 11 Capital propulsion engines for 1 ship, but wait, I nudged my scroll wheel and now it shows 21, so moved it back and back to 11..... wait a minute, if 1 ship takes 11 propulsion engines, surely 2 ships will take 22, 3 ships take 33 etc...
nope, 11,21,31,41,52,62 so each ship seems to take 10.33333rec capital propulsion engines

When I look at other component figures, they also have some rounding going on and don't just multiply the figures for building 1 ship.

Please don't tell me this is correct? does it want a bug report or will a dev acknowledge this here so I know it's been looked at?

Manufacturing costs in Sisi (approximately) for a 4 runs Heretic BPC:

Highsec: 6.900.000 ISK
Low Sec: 3.500.000 ISK
Null (Gallente outpost): 500.000 ISK
Null (Amarr outpost): 390.000 ISK + less materials
Null (NPC conquerable station): 144.500 ISK

I don't understand this, manufacturing slots are going to be cheaper in conquerable 0.0 stations?.

I noticed that the manufacturing times have changed a lot for some blueprints.

For example ammunition blueprints currently in TQ are all four (4) minutes per batch of 100 hundred units. Where as in Sisi they are 4 minutes for small ammo (S size, rocket, light missiles), 9 minutes for medium (M size, H and HA missiles) and 14 minutes for large (L size, cruise, torp). All numbers without skills/implants/w.e. effects.

The same type of change was done also to combat, EW and logistics drones.

On the other hand I can now produce some T2 modules more than four times faster than before.

Manufacturing times for ships seem to be unchanged.

What has prompted these changes? What is the problem that this change is trying to solve? And why these particular numbers? Why not for example keep the medium ammo mfg times the same, increase large ammo times and decrease small ammo times.

So, May it be possible a null system with high production taxes?. Is the production taxes base the same in null, low and high, or is greater in high an low sec?. I mean base taxes in a system, when no one have started yet any production job.

so if i understand this correctly CCP wants to encourage longer jobs (build multiple ships) via reduced costs. However this only really works if you are using BPOs, right? I mean if i want to build 20 slicers i have 20x 1 run BPCs and run into the worst case scenario.

Are there any plans to be able to concatenate several BPCs into one long job? Otherwise i don't really see why the cost reduction based on job length is there in the first place. I bet most jobs are run from BPCs and not BPOs.

There is any word on what the Material Efficiency Skill will do on crius?? right now it doesnt do anything on SISI.

There is a chance that the SP will be refunded?

What really is there left? That skill is was one of the longest and literally the most essential to train for any industrialist under the old system. One of the first, that any new industry toon trains.

You'd be hard pressed to find a replacement role, that's not already covered by other skills, which is equal to the 1.5 weeks it takes to train.

Really Advanced Mass Production? (+5 slots)

Advanced Industry? (25% time saving)

Production Expert? (ME bonus multiplier to multiple runs)

So a refund.

Because everything else would turn it into "a huge accessibility problem for industry".

By the way, since when does CCP think that lengthy specialization is a problem?
If I recall your stance correctly, specialization in mining and reprocessing is supposed to take a lot of time. How is industry different? And do not think about giving me that the ME skill keeps players out of the industry. It is just as essential for the activity as any reprocessing skill in order to be absolutely efficient. Even if you don't have ME V, you can still produce with lots of profits if you buy minerals for cheap prices - and this actually forces encourages players to think about what they do, how they do it and how it's done most efficiently even with lackluster skills. And it shows them that every activity involves effort in EVE.

You want to take that away?

The prospect mining frigate is not recognized as either "frigate" or "small class" in the "Teams" tab in the overview window. This does work for the venture mining frigate.

I have noticed some inconsistencies with the BPO mapping:

On TQ i used to have a T2 PBC of "Capital energy discharge elutriation II" at ME0 and PE0. On sisi i got the same PBC with ME +9% and TE +18%.

However, material costs of building it on TQ is lower than on SISI: 22/55/55 vs 28/69/69 for the Current Pump / Interface Circuit / Micro Circuit materials.

Iv noticed the same problem with all my T2 BPCs.

Is this a bug, or by design?

Also a Small Proton Smartbomb II used to be ME -4 and PE-4 and now it is ME +6% TE and +14% The old version of it used Mex/Morph/Nocx/Zyd + Plasma Pulse generator + the T1 version (81/3/6/6 + 4 + 1). Now it uses only Morph/zyd + Plasma Pulse generator + T1 mod (3/4 + 6 + 1)

I dont understand the consistency of the mapping at all.

That doesn't make sense. The TQ decryptor reduces the material requirements from 200% of base to 100% of base. On Sisi I would expect the decryptor reduce the material requirements from 100% of base to 96% of base. Therefore the TQ build cost of 100% of base should be slightly more than the Sisi build cost of 96%.

But then you (CCP) increased the base costs on Sisi. Presumably you increased base build costs so that TQ ME-4 is equivalent to Sisi ME2%. Which should make Davy's ME+9% BPC have a slightly lower build cost than the "normal" ME+2%, which, again, should be equivalent to TQ ME-4 build cost. That isn't what we are seeing. We are seeing substantial across-the-board increases in build costs on Sisi (22 to 28 is a 27% increase, 55 to 69 is 25%).

MDD

Any progress on this? (or did I miss an update) I just tested for mining crystals on my alt and got a 1 run t2 bpc

CCP: Consider putting standings into manufacturing somewhere. Having an incentive to create standings with the NPC station facilities gives players a reason to log in and be in space. Choices, interesting game play, a distinction between doing industry in a station vs POS, etc.

The NPC industry tax seems like a natural fit like with trade and refining, but it could be anything. It could be a minimal requirement - certainly not excessive like the current POS standing requirements. But if I moved to another region to try to find a good team or install cost, I wouldn't mind having my standings with the relevant NPC corporation come into play.

Awesome idea.

I can't think of anything that would make industrialists happier than having to re-skill and grind endless missions on the 5+ alts it takes to begin to be competitive as an industrialist.

Sarcasm aside, tying NPC standings into anything is usually a bad idea. It's forcing people to grind them, and let's be under no illusion, every way to get them involves some kind of mundane repetitive grinding.

That would mean the Prospect only has a broad speciality and no narrow speciality. Is that intentional?

Or should it be considered a covops?

Just a quick question, on the test server it states that tax is 10% across the board. I was under the impression that this was going to be affected by the quality of the npc stations in the various systems. Has this not yet been implemented on the test server, or was the idea scrapped?