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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1299
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Posted - 2014.06.12 14:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nick Starkey wrote:Docking rights make no real difference tbh. Anything stuck inside flipped stations can be contracted to neutral alts and taken away. It is only a very small incovenience with little practical implications.
This except I would say its a bigger inconvenience.
Docking rights add an inconvenience to participating in fw. That is all it is.
You want to pvp? Well you have to travel several jumps to get to then enemy and several more back if you need to reship or even repair.
You want to base in a fw system? You have to get an alt account to sit in an empty frigate (save the stabs) and dplex..
Plus this:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Personally? I would just like to see docking restrictions lifted. Yes, from a lore/RP point-of-view it makes sense. Yes, it also does make some groups work together more closely than they would like.
But it also prevents people from spreading out within the warzone because no one group can stay online all the time to keep their system from being farmed to vulnerable and captured.
This in turn creates "bunker" systems that are nigh impregnable while everything else remains more or less undefended... or groups live just outside the warzone to avoid the lockouts altogether... or people just leave FW and become full pirates because well, having where you can and cannot dock because some people did more PvE than you leaves a bad taste in your mouth and is not the reason you joined the militia in the first place.
It is like 0.0 SOV being decided by how much ratting, anomalies, and mining your alliance does over the others... with ship on ship combat being completely unnecessary or even being discouraged (because you are not ratting, running anomalies, or mining to keep SOV).
Really I still don't see how it makes sense that my own militia won't let me dock in its stations, but whatever.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1300
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Posted - 2014.06.13 02:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:Nick Starkey wrote:1-3 extra jumps somewhere isn't a deal breaker. You have no idea how much you are wrong. Eha is literally 2 jumps from Kehjari and we were have a VERY hard time keeping up with re-ships against the Caldari in the same system. When we moved into Villasen, it just became so much easier. Sure, when you're just living somewhere, Hykanima sounds great. But those 5 jumps to just get into the warzone are a huge block to PvP and re-shipping. Just go ask your officers why you moved into Kinakka instead of staying in Hykanima. Or why you haven't moved back into Innia instead.
At least we agree the no docking rule is a huge block to pvp.
I' m not surprised Gallente are the main proponents of this bad mechanic. They really haven't been in a situation where a large force moved them out. The minmatar in huola have been there for the most part as well but they actually seem sensible enough to realize its not good for the game.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1300
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Posted - 2014.06.13 03:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:Cearain wrote:
At least we agree the no docking rule is a huge block to pvp.
I' m not surprised Gallente are the main proponents of this bad mechanic. They really haven't been in a situation where a large force moved them out. The minmatar in huola have been there for the most part as well but they actually seem sensible enough to realize its not good for the game.
No, the no docking rule is the main driving force to PvP. That's the only reason why the Innia-Eha border was so contested for a good 4-5 months. And a 'large force to move us out'. Do you just ignore TEST and their fleets?
Did test move you out? I was not subscribed then so my info is second hand. I did see on the forums something like this:
TEST: Yay we hit tier 4!
Gallente: who cares? You didn't kick us out of ____ so we are winning!
TEST: Yeah we don't care to kick you out of ____ and don't care that you think we need to do that to win.
Gallente: ffs just do it for the fights then!
Then I really don't know what happened to test. Did they put a thousand players in one of your systems and push it? Did Chatgris singlehandedly fight all thousand of them off with nothing but his coercer and a jawbone of an ass?
But here is the faulty assumption. You assume that because there are hot spots now with docking restrictions those hotspots would not exist if the docking restrictions went away. (or at least were somewhat mitigated) But in fact there have always been hotspots in faction war. The only difference was there were also some other places to find pvp. Now its either go to one of 3-5 systems and get blobbed or roam through empty system after empty system. There used to be lots of micro hot spots throughout where you could get some pvp. And you could have bases in different areas so you could reship and get back to the pvp quicker.
Don't get me wrong on the whole I like faction war now more than before inferno. But the docking restriction is not good.
You said it yourself " those 5 jumps to just get into the warzone are a huge block to PvP and re-shipping"
From somone whose exposure to fw is with the militia with the least number of players I can only agree that no docking has been a block to pvp.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1301
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Posted - 2014.06.13 19:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I'm 'young' so I only experienced the current system. I think it's great.
Defending a home system is the most compelling reason to fight. Both for practical reasons and for very real 'human nature' reasons - sure it's just a game but 'fight for our homeland' rings in anybody's heart.
Logistics win wars. Having a station in-system rather than in the next-door system rather than just a staging POS makes a huge difference. Makes the pew pew more strategical..
Giving a pvp advantage to the side that can dock does not necessarily add strategy. It's just giving a pvp advantage to the winning side.
I know Gallente kept asking everyone to come fight in this or that system where you all have a clear pvp advantage. You then complain when the enemy doesn't do that. But here is the thing. Most pvpers don't want to fight in a system where they have a disadvantage. Why should they?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1301
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Posted - 2014.06.13 20:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Cearain wrote:Giving a pvp advantage to the side that can dock does not necessarily add strategy. It's just giving a pvp advantage to the winning side.
I know Gallente kept asking everyone to come fight in this or that system where you all have a clear pvp advantage. You then complain when the enemy doesn't do that. But here is the thing. Most pvpers don't want to fight in a system where they have a disadvantage. Why should they? It's strategy by definition. Since having docking rights in a station system gives an advantage, it makes strategical sense to flip that system..
Or avoid it.
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Also, I don't assume to know what 'most pvpers' think, but the pvpers I know - GalMil - are more than happy to fight in Caldari home systems. Recent examples are Enaluri, Innia and Kehjari.
I am just going based on anecdotal experience. Pvpers don't want to fight in situations that favor the enemy. Maybe your experience is different.
As for Gallente using overwheliming force, that's fine and good. The docking advantage won't always be decisive. Both sides in equal numbers and ships on either side of a gate and neither wants to jump in to the other. If one side has 20 cruisers and the other only has 3 frigates the cruisers will go ahead and jump in - assuming they want to bother with it.
Looking at the forums I saw many gallente seemed puzzled that Test didn't want to fight in your home systems. Didn't they get it? They were more interested in tiers and lp gains from that than taking some imagined "homeland" that you told them about.
I am just suggesting that perhaps its because you guys have a considerable advantage there. If you didn't have such a big advantage maybe you would have see more offensives. Gallente turtled up and complained that no one wanted to bang their knuckles on your shell. Why should they? You could keep docking there all you wanted but that didn't enable you to prevent them from achieving their goals of taking systems and getting better lp payouts.
I say, let everyone dock once the system is contested. I think you will see much more fighting throughout the warzone than you do now. I think it would add a small amount of strategy and it would make people much more likely to fight for that first offensive plex rather than just figure they can dplex in an empty frigate later.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1304
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Posted - 2014.06.16 04:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ribor wrote:Stupid post. Those of you who say "oh it's not even a real consequence I can get my stuff out on a neutral alt", you're missing the big picture. Sure YOU can get YOUR stuff out but can you organize that at a corp/alliance level and can you stage out of a station you can't enter? No, and I think we all know that the ability to stage out of a invulnerable structure that can hold whatever you need is not minor in any way. If you think stations aren't important, you're stupid or doing it wrong or both.
TL;DR keeping your enemy from staging out of a station is important and the only reason station systems get hotly contested, quit whining.
Stage out of it to do what? Drive your enemy further so they have to travel even further to pvp?
If you just want to stage out of a system for pvp then you can do that in a non fw system and you don't need to dplex. Or of course you can stay out of faction war all together.
Vyktor Abyss wrote:As previously mentioned, docking rights are the only real consequence of Faction Warfare.
Whether or not this is true it's irrelevant. Even if it were the only real consequence of faction war that wouldn't mean its a good mechanic.
Stalking Mantis
Those videos are over a year old. Sure there might be some great battles 2 or 3 times a year. But most days you see fw players holding home systems by putting their alts in empty frigates and dplexing. I don't think youtube would have the bandwidth to show all the times systems are held that way.
Veskrashen
I know what I saw. And it was test saying they didn't care about fighting in your home systems. They were interested in the goals set up by ccp in the mechanics - like tiers and lp gains.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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