Many of those ganked and pod killed were in empty freighters, or shuttles, or pretty much any ship is targetted just for the sake of getting a kill and hoping to kill a pod full of implants.

How would you know where it happened?

Ganking mission runners required no skill right after the MTU was added to the game.... All you had to do was aggro the MTU while the mission runner had his drone out....

Drones that are set to aggressive will no longer perform automatic actions against a target if those actions would trigger a new Limited Engagement, unless explicitly instructed to engage that target.

And what stops those ppl from doing the same thing the gankers do: working as a team to defend themselves?

Just missing the point altogether

The point should be to have less NPCs in the game, not more

I dont understand how auto-yellow on -10 is "easy mode"

It would change a great deal.

For example, -10s could fly bigger, slower ships.

Hell make auto-yellow on -1. I'd prefer that tbh. As it stands at the minute, sec status loss is meanless anyway in real terms, you just pump it back up again with tags before the FacPo gives a crap

You think removing NPCs doesnt increase the amount of interaction you have to have with players?

How do you figure that, sportsfan?

They cant even shoot down gankboats with the tank of a wet paper bag.

Whats with all of this auto-yellow at -10?

At -10 you are an outlaw and can be shot at already.

Think about what you just said.

You just said that facpo serves no purpose aside from being a mechanic you have to jump through hoops to get around so that you can play the game.

It doesn't matter if you won't see every single neg ten hanging out in highsec. It matters if it allows the ones who want to, to do it without jumping through hoops involving cloaked Orcas and twenty bookmarks in every system you want to operate in.

Because other players aren't 100% present, all day everyday like NPCs are. That means that undocking *might* be worth it, as opposed to definitely not worth it.

That possibility alone opens up far more potential player interaction than currently exists.

[edit: Hell, it might turn bounty hunting into an actual thing.

I dream of a game with no NPCs at all that has the same diverse amount of texture as EvE, so that yes, its possible to Trade and Mine and Manufacture and not PvP, but also do everything else too. Pirates are part of the Trading/Fighting Space RPG trope, but so are non violent industrialists. THis is why finding the middle ground of the seesaw is hard.

But I so dislike NPCs functioning in such as way as they actively (passively?) block the creation of such organisations.

What reward?

Killing the same exact guy as the ganker who never undocks except to insta warp and then head to the target?

There is no reward except to chestbeat about how hard you think you are for avoiding facpo.

Considering that, as I mentioned before, there is no reward for them, I think they ought to be removed.

Someone (possibly you, idk, looking at this on my sucky phone) mentioned freighters earlier. Freighters are a GOOD example of how taking extra effort pays off.

A freighter who fits a tank, doesn't over haul, and who flies with an escort or a scout is someone who doesn't eat a 1.4 billion isk loss. A suicide ganker who bookmarks half the system and uses a cloaked Orca in a safe spot gains... nothing. He gets the same kill that a ganker who doesn't do that gets (because ganking is all about picking targets, not about ****ing around in space), and his ship still dies to the binary, immersion breaking magic space police.

Btw, great job on that portrait, Sibyyl. No reason NPCs should mess with you.

*sniff* I love you guys too BIG HUGS EVERYONE

16.3b / 7.5m = 2170 successful jumps to pay off 1 gank

2. How else would you recommend we balance activities in eve if not an hourly isk generation model?

I love how people think that 10mil ISK permit fee matters nowdays.

fraction police

That said, if people feel that the burden of two minutes' planning is too great to bear, and the risk unpalatable, Red Frog is standing by to safely transport your goods for you.

http://red-frog.org/jumps.php

The other day we went over the zkillboard data which also showed a huge rise in suicide ganking, and it was brushed off as 'bad historical data'.

You mean this 99 page thread that has 314 different posters in a game of more than 400,000 active accounts


http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/352595-1

You do understand that the size of a forum thread in a forum most EVE players don't use doesn't mean jack s$%^t right?

Sure is summer in here.

The sheer number of kids on here going into screaming tantrums about the mere idea of their cozy, broken highsec hugbox being altered is pretty astounding. The narrative on the subject is so distorted that you can't even attempt a constructive discussion on highsec without getting your topic flamed and derailed by everyone, including the game devs.

Really, after reading snippets of threads like this one, I have to laugh when people wonder why EVE isn't more popular.

That would be quite the interesting idea, honestly. Give the "PVE at any cost" people a little flag they can set. In exchange for setting the flag, everything about that account just stops. No ISK generation, no SP, no seeing other ships in space, no chat (or maybe just one huge global room), nothing. They can just get an arbitrary "score", rather than ISK or SP. They can use the "score" to buy pretend ammo, equipment, and stuff from NPC vendors. NPC sold items, of course, costing more than what they buy the items back for.

Then, the PVE at any cost get their wish, they can't interact with EVE in any way shape or form. Still pay sub fees, of course.

I really wonder just how long they'd last like that.

You are setting up a false dichotomy. Do you not see that?

EVE and ESO can both be terrible for different reasons! Likewise, you can improve EVE without turning it into ESO.

Mine too, hopefully my Gallente alt will see some proper use.

A fitting analogy would be the difference between a well to do suburb with regular police patrols (high sec), and a rough ghetto area where the police barely step (low sec). The residents of the ghetto are always keeping their eyes open and focusing on potential threats because that's the nature of where they live. The residents of the suburbs still have to not do completely idiot things like leave windows open when they go out, but at the same time can reasonably expect not to have to cross the street any time they see someone walking in their direction.

Many of the people here think that highsec should just become like low sec. Unfortunately many of the people playing the game are playing because they find suburbia enjoyable, and have no desire to move out to the projects. It's not their game style, they don't enjoy it, and they want to pursue other parts of the game that have been here just as long as ganking has. The first group of people want the second group of people to change or leave the game, despite the fact that this would almost certainly stop the game being profitable.

You can gank in a crowded place like Jita, with everyone watching, and everyone knowing who you are, and then 15 minutes later come right back to the same system and camp the undock now with protection from CONCORD. There are almost no significant long lasting effects of HS crime (sec status you can now buy tags for, and kill rights you can often clear on your own, the ones that really matter anyway).

Bring it, carebear.

My next awox is dedicated to you, by the way. I cannot stand anti sandbox advocacy, least of all the kind of hypocritical crap you're peddling.

Yeah, that's true. My only argument is that if this is the intention (which almost certainly it is) then CCP could make that a lot more clear to players. Right now it's pretty misleading and I can see where the expectations come from. If you call it HS the mechanics seem broken. If you call it medium sec then the mechanics make sense.

I have removed a reply (and the post quoting it) to an edited out part of the quoted post.

You mis-understand. It's high security space so I should get instant protection from Concord.

I'm not part of a massive gank alliance like CODE and don't have those numbers of pilots available to me. I don't know the DPS numbers on T3 BC like Talos. I need specific numbers or the gank can fail.

Because I posted this thread and my opinion on the state of ganking does not mean I am not allowed to gank an Orca.

It's not hypocritical. A one off gank of an Orca is vastly difference than a large group of organised players who play the game solely for the purpose of ganking as many ships as they can, even when there is no profit to be had. Empty freighters, even when tanked, are sometimes killed just because they can (proof that ganking is too easy or that the punishment is not severe enough) It's not specifically ganking by itself that is the problem, it's that people are now taking it too far and efforts should be made to curb that behaviour.

Yeah, eve online is fun and exciting!

Just noticed your reply in this threadnought (thanks to eve-search and Chribba). Last I checked this thread had about 30 pages, and now...Oh God. Will it reach 200 pages?

To reply your post: You are talking about the angry, gank-victim carebear and you shouldn't blame the whole mining community like that.

It's not about what they do. It's about attitude.

Freighters failing to defend themselves. What?

How can a freighter be cloaked? They don't have the highslot to fit the cloaking device. Everything else makes sense, I'm just stuck on that point.

A freighter can't prevent a gank from determined gankers. It's not supposed to, it's a frieghter, it hauls ****.

I don't particularly care if they have defenses at all, that's something you attributed to me. And I was saying they have preventative measures, not defenses.

It's like you and your friends were at a bar and some of you leave early.

Then later you meet up and one of your friends says, "Hey, after you left someone at the bar came up to me and tried to start a fight!"

"Really!? What did you do?"

"I totally defended myself!"

"No way! How?"

"I turned around and ran away as fast as I could!"

...

I'd get more joy in timing a neutral web, losing a frigate and watching the freighter warp away. Because I'm a true *******.

Ok so that mines that you will survive catalyst fleet,Brutix fleet ore Talos fleet ganking you, are you serious, I would like to see this.
O wait you will not get gank do you know why because you are one of them.

rekwest dorking purmishun

Well, I'm not steamed at all. But allowing gankers to entrap ships through bumping so that multiple waves of the EXACT SAME gankers can blow them up seems to be a clearly illogical game mechanic, and should be fixed.

Because you should not need to use a webber or a scout to prevent criminal activity in highsec. The police should intervene, and take appropriate action against the offenders. That is what highsec is about.

[ete]

I suggested that being a gank attempt victim should grant you 60 seconds of immunity from bumping, which is enough time for an at the keyboard capsuleer to align and warp off.

Yes - since in my view the bumping here is a criminal activity, it would not be an "exploit" for freighters or miners to self-gank as a way of avoiding bumping for 60 seconds. They would still be vulnerable to being shot, webbing, etc.... all the normal risk factors in high sec. They simply would not be subject to un-responded to entrapment allowing successive waves of gankers to hit them, in effect being warp scrambled without CONCORD response.

That is called projection. You somehow think it makes him mad because it would make you mad.

I don't think it makes him mad at all. I think it just amuses him and makes you look silly.