I'm on this eternum guys side of the fence in all honesty. Local should show how many people in system but not details. In low and null.

Why?

There is a large amount of pilots up for this but the vocal null sec isk milkers would not wish it and thus it won't be. Null sec is full of carebears it's really that simple, why would you want it to change aye? Sure you need to keep and hold your SOV, turns out local means you don't need to actually patrol it to keep your renters safe. nope, you just need region wide intel channels and a cyno. I'm not wrong, null sec players know i'm not wrong yet still you'll all hate to see this boat rocked.

Local should be and always should have been treated the same as Alliance and W-Space Local. This notion that you must be able to immediately know everyone in the system is ludicrous in a game as hardcore as EvE. It would be like playing an FPS and hacking the radar.

And for your next trick, you imply that the reason for this lack of popularity is because of local being absent.

And the other differences, well, they are just details that everyone simply loves and adores...

Pointing out WHs as an option, especially on equal terms to null except for local, is ridiculous.

I hate to break it to you, but the blob PvP style is distinctly favored by places that have local.

To suggest that a guerrilla style tactic would be more successful is disingenuous, since such tactics rely on an element of surprise not available with Local operating.
Pilots thusly prepared either reship into combat ready craft, or avoid contact altogether.

With the ratio of players present in these areas, you would pretend that this speaks more about something besides the sheer population being present?


Ad hominem for the win, eh?

You are poorly prepared if you think to discredit me from a search on this alt's PvP credentials. I use Nikk in a supporting role, which makes kills in either direction unlikely, IF I do it right.

More than this, you will simply have to wonder about.
All I will say here, is what I have said elsewhere... I have been on both sides of the fence regarding cloaking vs PvE play, and that fence is named local.

It keeps these two sides neatly separated, and keeps PvP either consensual or based off of mistakes by one side.

There are lots of consensual fights.
There probably always will be.
This detail is not significant to this discussion, though you keep bringing it up.

This is completely rubbish and there is no basis for this statement.

Local is the cause of many issues and is not consistent with the concept of EVE. Having a continual reporting system is the problem.

You cannot make that claim either.

The difference between null-sec and W-space is not solely the absence of a local channel.


To be honest there is so much whining about change to the status quo that you will eventually just have a game like an X-universe (at least in null-sec) where PvE is the only option.

Anyone who plays for the competition and challenge of PvP will be in FW or will have left the game.

I find the idea that null without local is constantly being compared to wormhole space, absurd.

Wormhole space =/= (null - local)

That's like comparing a city block with the lights out, to being like the wild jungle. Sure, neither has working streetlights, but this hardly makes them equals.

So little PvP in wormhole space?
It is probably attributable to the fact that the population in WH space is that much smaller.
Seriously, they don't run into each other by accident as often, and they tend to be more careful about their actions.

Why are their fewer people in WH space?
It is very inconvenient compared to regular space, since it is missing:

Live and stable gate connections to other sections of space, and between internal systems.
Outposts, NPC and player built both. This includes the sub category of med clones and jump clones as an additional difference.
The Market. Present in all it's glory, even if only stocked by player activity and some minor NPC items.
Cyno capability, both covert and regular.


Yeah, I can't say local helps find good quality PvP... at least, not how I would define good quality PvP.
How this is a failing to my argument is also a mystery.
All I see are consensual fights taking place, with genuine strategic targets often proving immune to persecution.
If you are keen on asking your opponent's permission first, good for you.

I also cannot explain bronies. Again, this seems to take away nothing from my points, but we somehow got on the topic of things I cannot explain...

Ok, point one... PvP occurrences based on accidental encounters, changes with population at far more than a 1:1 ratio.
Each player not present removes a chance from EVERY hostile potential, not just a single individual.

Does local become the deciding point for these players?
ONLY if they are focused on strictly consensual encounters, and wish to effectively avoid PvP the rest of the time.

A supply chain is vital, and cannot be eliminated, for PvP actions. The absence of a market may not affect an individual pilot specifically, but those MUST have logistics in place that need to overcome far more obstacles than their null counterparts do.

You may not have transported that ship out, to replace your recent losses, but someone had to do it for you.
And it's a fairly safe bet the WH logi guy needed to be more diligent and resourceful than a pilot making a similar trip to null.

Uhhh, yeah... did you even follow what you just said?

The low population makes the PvP worse, and the population is low because the PvP is worse.

Now, I can stretch that to almost make sense, but you should probably stick to points with less circular logic.

I should point out, that if being able to choose when you fight is not important, then convenience aspects described as the difference between null and wormholes are pushed into higher significance.

Now, if you can explain how local does something other than offer the ability to avoid non-consensual PvP, in the context you claim that it promotes PvP, I would be interested.
Really, I would. I can set my ego aside, and seriously accept a valid argument, should you offer me one.

Except, they can't just dump them into their outpost, and contract them out to players.
Assuming they has a POS with a ship storage online, they can dump them into that, and everyone uses the honor system.
Oh, and someone borrowing a ship with good intentions, (or even by mistake), is the same end result as theft, if you can't reship when you need to because it just isn't there to be used.
Entire game sessions can be lost, if you don't have the right tool for the job.

I disagree.

The driving factor for most PvPer's is "Effort". They are generally lazy. They look for combat as soon as they log on and they want the "rush" and the "fun" now.....

C> Your assumption that "(null - Local) == Wormhole space" is flawed.
Null without local is more comparable to a city block with the streetlights out, while WH space is more akin to a rainforest jungle.
Neither has working street lamps, but you can step into a "department store / Outpost" in one, and those "freeways / jump bridges" won't be found in the other either.

You have nothing to support this claim, besides your apparent faith that it must be true..

You deliberately ignore that losses in PvP, requiring pilots to reship if not awaken into a fresh medclone, are far far easier to do in null space..

You can't even access med clones in a WH.
Buying a new ship, if you did not set any reserves in the POS? There is no market in the WH either..

Oh, nice ad hominem, attempting to discredit me again on your lack of details about my PvP experience.
It is neither your business, nor relevant to this discussion, the nature of my past kills.