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Rollback ECM to the Way It Used to Be!

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Libby Jackson	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:04:00 - [1] Am I the only person who wishes ECM should work the way it used to? I think that going back to simple arithmatic on wether someone is jammed or not is much more sane than a situation where a frigate can jam up a battleship with a SINGLE racial jammer. Making it so that you NEED 4-5 multis to jam up a battleship will bring back balance to the system. Discuss. -------------------------------------------- 'I am going to be the next Sansha, I'm going to kill all the Amarrians and one clown.' 'Why the clown?' 'See! No one cares about the Amarrians!'
Mr Filth	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:14:00 - [2] this has been discussed in 5 threads already and we still got 2 sticky posts. I totally agree in this but all we can do is wait. As you can see, theyll boost eccm in the next patch - not that it helps anything. I doubt ccp will swallow their pride and give us back the old system where scorp and BB was EW ships.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:15:00 - [3] the old system was better than the current system, in that the current system is so overpwoered, but i dont think going back to the old system is the way -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Gronsak the old system was better than the current system, in that the current system is so overpwoered, but i dont think going back to the old system is the way did Gronsak sell his account? this actually makes sense I am all for nerfing/changing ecm, but we already had a gazilion threads about it, also there is a sticky about ecm, lets post there plz. Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
dalman	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:21:00 - [5] The problem really only is that the sensor strength on ECM vs ship is hugely overpowered. With the current ECM strength a BS should have upwards 45-50 in basic strength, not the current 20 ish. If they're boosting ECCM up to 60%, I guess a raise of base strength of BS to around 30-35 would be enough. Still no sign of it = ECM will still be overpowered and the only defence vs ECM is not ECCM but to use ECM yourself Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:24:00 - [6] once i jamed carrier in a rifter ^^^ join soar angelic
Spartan239	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:27:00 - [7] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter once i jamed carrier in a rifter ^^^ thats because ecm is chance based Originally by: Tamora its not the skills that make the eve player... its the smack that back him up
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Spartan239 Originally by: wierchas noobhunter once i jamed carrier in a rifter ^^^ thats because ecm is chance based well yeah still was fun join soar angelic
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:36:00 - [9] hell no Old blog
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:36:00 - [10] It would slightly be solved by having ECM stacking nerfed like all other EWar :p New sig coming soonÖ Tuxford's good for EVE.

dalman	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Ithildin It would slightly be solved by having ECM stacking nerfed like all other EWar :p Not at all. As the big problem is the effectiveness of just one single jammer. One single multi ECM (one slot) takes out 10 slots of the enemy BS 30% of the time. = per average you use 1 slot to disable 3 slots on the other ship. ^^ and that's the problem. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:50:00 - [12] Originally by: dalman The problem really only is that the sensor strength on ECM vs ship is hugely overpowered. With the current ECM strength a BS should have upwards 45-50 in basic strength, not the current 20 ish. If they're boosting ECCM up to 60%, I guess a raise of base strength of BS to around 30-35 would be enough. Still no sign of it = ECM will still be overpowered and the only defence vs ECM is not ECCM but to use ECM yourself The problem is that such a change would in turn make ECM somewhat useless - a scorp would have to fill 6-7 of his meds with multispecs to have an relyable chance to jam another BS without ECCM. Someone in in the main thread suggested changing how ecm works: - not loosing your target, but making it just unselectable (grayed out or something). For the bigger ships the real "damage" is quite often done already when ECMed, since retargeting can take ages. That way oyu could use eccm as actual countermeasure. - not having an all-or-nothing chance (aka be able to attack everything or nothing), but doing the ecm roll for every target (and redoing it each jamming cycle). So in gang/fleet combat a jammed ship won't be interly "useless", but would be on reduced effeciency since it probably won't be able to focus fire with the rest.
Ichabod Crane	Posted - 2006.06.17 19:12:00 - [13] The best way to balance the system is to make the countermeasures to ECM better, not by nerfing it back to what it was. In the old system if you didnt have more sensor strength than what was jamming you, you had no chance of getting lucky, you were locked down. At least in this system theres a chance for you to get a lock in if the jammer fails. -
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.17 19:21:00 - [14] /signed I liked that system
Freddy Krueger	Posted - 2006.06.17 19:48:00 - [15] /signed The "old" system was much better. Back then a Scorp & BB were viable damn useful ships. Nowadays every tom ** & harry throws a multi spec onto their ship & it turns into a simple matter of who gets a lock 1st. There used to be skill in using Ecm, now its *****s. Freddy.
Kashre	Posted - 2006.06.17 19:55:00 - [16] The old system is crap. Under the old system if you didnt have 6 mids, you didnt have a viable jammer ship. That means that ONLY the Caldari could reasonably use jammers with any kind of success to jam anything bigger than a frigate. The current system could certainly use some tweaking, but the chance based system actually makes something like the Belicose at least not be totally worthless in an EW role. +++ "Etiquette is for the Dojo. In war there is only victory or death." - Eiji Yoshikawa
Libby Jackson	Posted - 2006.06.17 20:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Kashre Edited by: Kashre on 17/06/2006 19:57:48 The old system is crap. Under the old system if you didnt have 6 mids, you didnt have a viable jammer ship. That means that ONLY the Caldari could reasonably use jammers with any kind of success to jam anything bigger than a frigate. But when you buy a Scorp/BB jamming would be the ONLY thing you could do with it. Think about it. When do you ever do anything but PVP with blackbirds and scorps? And as for the previous poster who said that you would have to have 6-7 multis on a Scorp to make it work, remebmer that back in the day most battleships only had at the very most 12-15 points w/o ECCM. Basically if you were running a standard BB with 4 multispecs you would jam somoene up unless they had ECCM which would break the jam or started firing FOF missiles. -------------------------------------------- 'I am going to be the next Sansha, I'm going to kill all the Amarrians and one clown.' 'Why the clown?' 'See! No one cares about the Amarrians!'
Freddy Krueger	Posted - 2006.06.17 20:08:00 - [18] Why must every ship be a jammer, why must every battle consist of being jammed by non specific specialised jamming craft. This change to Ecm we have now over the original system has taken a huge amount of fun away from pvp; for any1 to say otherwise, either their heads are up their asses, they're too nubish to have used the old system, or more likely they are the perpetrators who constantly turn up in a battle & jam the living crap out of everything moving. We have specialised jamming craft, with lots of mids & high cpu. My scorp at the moment can jam a whole damn gang at times with my skills & a bit of luck; thats wrong, 1 racial per ship per jam is no fun. Freddy.
Padaxes	Posted - 2006.06.17 20:30:00 - [19] Quote: Am I the only person who wishes ECM should work the way it used to? Nope I agree 100% /signed
Kashre	Posted - 2006.06.17 20:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Libby Jackson Originally by: Kashre Edited by: Kashre on 17/06/2006 19:57:48 The old system is crap. Under the old system if you didnt have 6 mids, you didnt have a viable jammer ship. That means that ONLY the Caldari could reasonably use jammers with any kind of success to jam anything bigger than a frigate. But when you buy a Scorp/BB jamming would be the ONLY thing you could do with it. Think about it. When do you ever do anything but PVP with blackbirds and scorps? And as for the previous poster who said that you would have to have 6-7 multis on a Scorp to make it work, remebmer that back in the day most battleships only had at the very most 12-15 points w/o ECCM. Basically if you were running a standard BB with 4 multispecs you would jam somoene up unless they had ECCM which would break the jam or started firing FOF missiles. ] My point is this: 1> Jammers are the best pvp EW system. 2> Every race should at least be able to use them to some effect. If every race got a ship with 6+ mids and some kind of ECM bonus, then Id be all for putting it back the way it was. Hell I'd even tank dampeners. target-painting bonus ftl. All I care about is that all races can be in shouting distance of caldari. Caldari obviously are better at it (and rightly so) with their bonuses and mid slots, but personally I like being able to make a decent jammer platform out of my tempest or cyclone. And to that other guy: I dont have my head up my ass, I actually think that ECM brings a lot of flavor to PvP. It adds variety. And yeah it needs to be balanced a bit more, but I dont want every battle in eve to be a 10 second gank-fest with no brains required either. +++ "Etiquette is for the Dojo. In war there is only victory or death." - Eiji Yoshikawa

Aramendel	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Kashre 1> Jammers are the best pvp EW system. Maybe the solution is to make them stop being this, to bring them down to the effeciency of other EW like dampeners and tracking disruptors.
Bren Kasir	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:31:00 - [22] For anyone who says "but then only caldari will use ECM" have a look at the weapons each race uses. Caldari: Missiles/Guns + ECM (specialist ships) Gallente: Hybrids/Drones + Sensor dampeners (specialist ships) Amarr: Lasers + Drones/Missiles (specialist ships) Minmatar: Projectile/Missile ECM is the bloody caldari specialist weapon. Only 3 of their t1 ships are even designed for the bloody stuff! Why the heck should ECM be a game for all to play when it's been designed from the start as a racial weapon for a single race. By all means return it to its old state and make things such that you only jam in a BB/Scorp and BB/Scorp are _only_ ever used for jamming. That's the way the game shoudl be! How often do you see a domi not using drones, or a phoon not using torps. Bren Kasir --- You want fries with that?
Novarei	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:41:00 - [23] I can never understand why they changed it in the first place, there were problems with the system, but there was no need to come hit ECM with a big 'WTFstick II' and completely **** it up.
Bren Kasir	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:46:00 - [24] But the carebears called for it and lo it was done. Much like every other stupid idea implemented since I started playing. Bren Kasir --- You want fries with that?
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Ichabod Crane In the old system if you didnt have more sensor strength than what was jamming you, you had no chance of getting lucky, you were locked down. At least in this system theres a chance for you to get a lock in if the jammer fails. That's umm... kinda the point of ECM should work. It is a form of damage mitigation like an active or passive resistance. It should work in similar fashion to how Shield/Armor resistance modules work NOT how turrets work. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Novarei	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Bren Kasir But the carebears called for it and lo it was done. Much like every other stupid idea implemented since I started playing. Bren Kasir Thats the point, what was it they were trying to do with ECM, because I can hardly believe it was intentional to **** it up so badly.
Bren Kasir	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:52:00 - [27] In theory the probability based ECM was a good idea, it meant that ships that jammed harder got a better chance of a jam (scorpion) and ships that jammed more could also jam well (blackbird). The problem is that the base probability is so high it's made a single ECM module one of the most effective items in the game, rather than the piece of useless junk it should be (especially when fitted to a non-ECM ship). I can see the original idea, but sadly it's impossible to work with a linear scale of probabilities. Far better would have been a far lower probability of a jam (reduce module strength) and boost the specialist ships further (+20% strength rather than +10%). Bren Kasir --- You want fries with that?
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:57:00 - [28] As long as the new system is NOT chance basied. Reasons being; ECM spefific ships can fail all together, which equals a dead ECM ship most of the time. Non ECM ships that relie on good old fashoned decent dmg nice tank can boost thier chances to win massivly, and if the ecm fails, no big problem. TBH im surprised that CCP even thought up this non sense... and then put it ingame Dont get me started on why the other (admitedly less 'powerful') EW is extremly reliable, and works everytime on ships that can tank better and do more dmg than the caldari equivelent. Its a mess, CCP are on it, we dont need any more EW/ECM threads.
Bren Kasir	Posted - 2006.06.18 00:59:00 - [29] Agreed. There have been at least 6 ECM threads popped up over the last couple of days. Time to let CCP do something about it. I think though that it's this seasons WCS whine topic, so we can expect more. Bren Kasir --- You want fries with that?
Luc Boye	Posted - 2006.06.18 01:14:00 - [30] /signed its retarded to get jammed by 1 multi in a bs.

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.06.18 02:58:00 - [31] The old syste, where you could render bucksetfuls of supports irellevant with a single scorp (1 jammer, 1 permajammed frig), where only cycle jamming made ECM viable, where only TWO ships in the game was worth using it with... yes, it was SOO good. Or not.
Testicular Testes	Posted - 2006.06.18 03:46:00 - [32] Originally by: Maya Rkell The old syste, where you could render bucksetfuls of supports irellevant with a single scorp (1 jammer, 1 permajammed frig), where only cycle jamming made ECM viable, where only TWO ships in the game was worth using it with... yes, it was SOO good. Or not. As opposed to now, where one 13.5 pointer still takes out one support ship permanently
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.06.18 03:49:00 - [33] Originally by: Maya Rkell The old syste, where you could render bucksetfuls of supports irellevant with a single scorp (1 jammer, 1 permajammed frig), where only cycle jamming made ECM viable, where only TWO ships in the game was worth using it with... yes, it was SOO good. Or not. It was leaps and bounds better than this system. I don't like frigates running around with ewar able do the nasty things they do unless its in a ship designed for it. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Libby Jackson	Posted - 2006.06.18 21:45:00 - [34] I think that even a PARTIAL rollback would still work. Like returning to the arithmatic, but still having the range limitations and a chance of a 'failure to jam' of some kind. But I think it's pretty widely agreed that almost any system is better than the current one. -------------------------------------------- Rollback ECM!
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.06.18 21:49:00 - [35] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 18/06/2006 21:49:21 Originally by: Testicular Testes Originally by: Maya Rkell The old syste, where you could render bucksetfuls of supports irellevant with a single scorp (1 jammer, 1 permajammed frig), where only cycle jamming made ECM viable, where only TWO ships in the game was worth using it with... yes, it was SOO good. Or not. As opposed to now, where one 13.5 pointer still takes out one support ship permanently And thus requires you picked the correct race rather than being able to do it with a multispec, and with a CHANCE of failure. And Kaylana Syi, yea, gosh forbid that they be USEFUL.
Crellion	Posted - 2006.06.18 21:55:00 - [36] Eve should be about skills not about chance. Signed.
Libby Jackson	Posted - 2006.06.18 21:57:00 - [37] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 18/06/2006 21:49:21 Originally by: Testicular Testes Originally by: Maya Rkell The old syste, where you could render bucksetfuls of supports irellevant with a single scorp (1 jammer, 1 permajammed frig), where only cycle jamming made ECM viable, where only TWO ships in the game was worth using it with... yes, it was SOO good. Or not. As opposed to now, where one 13.5 pointer still takes out one support ship permanently And thus requires you picked the correct race rather than being able to do it with a multispec, and with a CHANCE of failure. And Kaylana Syi, yea, gosh forbid that they be USEFUL. Used to be that the only disadvantage to multis over racials was that cap disappared on a BB like like a bag of chips at a weight watchers convention. /memory lane I think the whole chance of failure thing is not THAT bad of an idea, the main problem with the new system is that ONE jammer will screw anyone's day over. -------------------------------------------- Rollback ECM!
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.06.18 22:00:00 - [38] So you think cap use on multis should be higher with a role bonus for the Caldari EW ships? That sounds a LOT more reasonable than the other suggestions to me. And again, shrug, I advocate partial jams..
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.06.18 22:02:00 - [39] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 18/06/2006 22:02:53 Originally by: Maya Rkell And Kaylana Syi, yea, gosh forbid that they be USEFUL. Frigates should NEVER need EWAR to be useful unless... and here is the kicker to topple your house of rabble... it's an ewar frigate. OMG what a freaking concept... EWAR is stupid atm... just plain stupid. There are other ways to skin a cat, ie make frigates useful, and EWAR should be taboo to those ways. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Caldessa	Posted - 2006.06.18 22:09:00 - [40] Edited by: Caldessa on 18/06/2006 22:10:09 Jamming is nerfed enough by the tech2 long range ammo. So stop complaining!

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.06.18 22:10:00 - [41] No, useful in general. Because the system you're advocating returning to means a 1:1 ECM:frigate permajam. And yea, again, be terrible if a pack of small ships can bring a large one down, or that ECM should break up massed fire tactics.
mahhy	Posted - 2006.06.18 22:11:00 - [42] Maybe we need something like a minimum level of effectiveness... although since I've just thought of this now, I've got absolutely no idea how it would work... Make it combination of the current system and the old system, where you need a certain level of skill and strength of jammers before you even have a chance of jamming the target. A frig using a single jammer would have no chance, but maybe a BS would. More mods, higher basic strength until you reach the poing where you're gaurunteed the chance to jam. After that basic strength is reached the current chance based system kicks in...
Wizard	Posted - 2006.06.18 23:34:00 - [43] Edited by: Wizard on 18/06/2006 23:34:40 Im always falling foul to ewar users, i h8 the damn stuff and ruins a fight imh. I think the 60% boost to eccm is utter crap idea ccp are implenting in next patch. The only decent idea i think is to boost the racial strengh of ALL ships in eve by like 30-40%. The old system was pants also, nobody really wanted to fly scorp etc in battle cos they knew most times theyd be primary. Without Reason corp website ^^looking for a PvP corp with little stress then look no further.
SLIM	Posted - 2006.06.19 00:04:00 - [44] Edited by: SLIM on 19/06/2006 00:06:17 Well, if everyone keeps seeing threads on the same topics, maybe it's because the posters have a point. Crazy thought, I know. And maybe, since EVE is a pvp game, the people who balance it should get on to doing that. ECM is overpowered. That's a fact. The whole chance based method is quite frankly ridiculous. "But," you protest, "all the guns are chance based as well!" Well, that is true, but one hit does not often decide the outcome of a ship battle, obviously sniper vs inty is an exception, but on the whole, BS vs BS combat is not decided by wreckings. The sheer number of "dice rolls" due to turrets are much higher. Many times, it is in the hundreds. For your average fight, ECM dice roll only 3-5 times. There is much less averaging, and more variance. This takes the decision out of the hands of the player, and into the hands of chance. Obviously, that is crap. So, how to fix it? Well, we could go back to the old way. Not only did it make sense, but it wasn't terribly imbalanced. We could even keep our new falloff characteristics and everything. Yes, this means that a scorpion will be able to fend off several interceptors by itself. Good on it. Guess what, so can a nos domi. So can a phoon. Sorry, but the whine about smaller ships getting hit is pretty lame. Smaller ships are still plenty useful, especially if they have (tada!) dampeners. Even if we don't go back to the old way, ECCM REALLY needs fixing. For one simple reason. ECCM gimps your setup. Therefore, in order to use it, you need to be reasonably sure that your opponent is also gimping his setup by devoting his slots to ECM. Compare this to the ECM person, who KNOWS that whatever ship he faces will be at least somewhat vulnerable to jamming (bar a dreadnaught or bigger). The ECM person incurs no risk, his module WILL be useful. Compare this to the person with ECCM. If he runs into someone without ECM, well then he's just wasted precious module slots on something that will help him not at all. Thus we can see, in order for it to be VIABLE to fit ECCM, it needs to be massively favorable compared to ECM. I've read that there is a 60% boost in. I hope that is a flat addition, not a percentage increase. Otherwise, it's still totally useless.
FraXy	Posted - 2006.06.19 00:28:00 - [45] Edited by: FraXy on 19/06/2006 00:28:35 /signed /signed /signed /signed Oh did i mention that i /sign this? The old system was MUCH better. Scorpion were the biggest sensor strength ship with 20 iirc and it took 4 or 5 ECM Multispec to 100% jam him every time (cyclejamming was an art and i was picasso). I miss that system, allthough if it wasn`t for the change i would`ve been a poor caldari trained scum So TY CCP for making me train a different race, but i do miss the old system and i am ALL for giving Scorpion back the 5% per level Shield HP bonus... This is my lazy attempt to make an uber-signature, please go away!
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2006.06.19 01:11:00 - [46] Edited by: Dr Fighter on 19/06/2006 01:12:16 The old system had its problems, but a jamming pilot was SKILLED at his area of combat and yes a very good jaming pilot could jam a fair few ships constantly. I think the 20 seconds should be looked at first. 20 seconds isnt THAT long in an average battle, however if you get jammed more than one (and you do) then we are talking about a whole minute of battle if a few lucky cycles work in a row. Thats a very long time, and in a very high percentage of pvp MOST of the battle. What i think atm after weeks of reading ECM threads: We need a system that is not chance basied so no one-ECM-module-mounting-cowboy in a frig can jam a capital ship. Make sure that pilots skilled in rl with quick reactions and fast with a mouse arnt too effective. So how about something like; A system that may use cool down type approch (as surjested before) and less of a jam time (like 10 seconds jam 10 seconds cool down after to aviod cycle jammers) and hav half the old system back where the ECM stragnths are stacked when used on the same ship, but the chances to jam are much lower. Granted this would still be chance based witch i dont like, but will be very easy and simple change (remeber the innitial confusion when the curret system came out). But tbh i wouldnt mind if the effects of ECM was only to break a lock, with a 30% reduction in locking time or somthing for the remaining 20 seconds, like a targetable burst with a small sensor damping affect. But hey what can i say, i think jamming is ghey and im a bit biased, but if any of my ramblings/ideas hav any positive effects and makes pvp ineresting again - great. Fighter.
Bren Kasir	Posted - 2006.06.19 01:15:00 - [47] Any kind of "cool down" time won't work apart from nerfing single ECM ships. Multiple ECM ships will still pwn cos they'll activate in sequence so one ECM is always on the target. Bren Kasir --- You want fries with that?
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2006.06.19 01:27:00 - [48] Originally by: Bren Kasir Any kind of "cool down" time won't work apart from nerfing single ECM ships. Multiple ECM ships will still pwn cos they'll activate in sequence so one ECM is always on the target. Bren Kasir I only surjested the cool down because i and others feel 20 seocnds for one successful jam is too long, and often the piont of jamming ina smaller gang fight is to break the lock, also in the last system cycle jamming scorps were just breaking locks. I also reckon that cool down should only be for chance based systems where one module can jam a BS, rather than a system where one module has 1% to jam but 3 has 70%. (pulling numbers out my a55 for demonstating my reasons for bringing it up in the first place ;p ) Also, multipule ECM ships should pwn, the same way multipule damp ships would or NOS *****s etc. The main problems over all is that ECM ships arnt flown because its easyer to fit one ECM mod to each ship in the intire gang. There arnt many that will rely on their 'good luck' to fly in such a flimsy ship, when they can be in a tanked high dmg ship instead.
Brer Lapin	Posted - 2006.06.19 05:53:00 - [49] I love the random element tbh, but I prefered the old range mechanism. If it can be locked it should be able to be jammed.
Novarei	Posted - 2006.06.19 07:20:00 - [50] Originally by: Brer Lapin I love the random element tbh, but I prefered the old range mechanism. If it can be locked it should be able to be jammed. Whilst it was hella fun, it was not well balanced that at scrop could jam ships 300km away from the fight.

Sebroth	Posted - 2006.06.19 07:20:00 - [51] Originally by: Bren Kasir For anyone who says "but then only caldari will use ECM" have a look at the weapons each race uses. Caldari: Missiles/Guns + ECM (specialist ships) Gallente: Hybrids/Drones + Sensor dampeners (specialist ships) Amarr: Lasers + Drones/Missiles (specialist ships) Minmatar: Projectile/Missile ECM is the bloody caldari specialist weapon. Only 3 of their t1 ships are even designed for the bloody stuff! Why the heck should ECM be a game for all to play when it's been designed from the start as a racial weapon for a single race. By all means return it to its old state and make things such that you only jam in a BB/Scorp and BB/Scorp are _only_ ever used for jamming. That's the way the game shoudl be! How often do you see a domi not using drones, or a phoon not using torps. Bren Kasir You are missing the fact that dampners, tracking disruptors and TP can be used and are used by the other races and that with 1-2 modules. ECM is not a caldari only weapon. The problem with ECM is that even with only 1 or 2 modules you are better of with ecm normaly then the other types of EW and it only gets worse with more slots as the ECM dont get any stacking penalty. IMHO what needs is 1) a boost of the sensor strenght of every ship, but not to big boost tho. 2) a rebalance between racials and multispecs giving the multispec a small nerf. ----- Never knock on Death's door; ring the doorbell and run (he hates that)


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