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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.17 21:01:00 -
[1]
Uh sry... that was my alt :)
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Amizu
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Posted - 2006.06.17 21:01:00 -
[2]
Anyone who was in 0,0 probably knows the drill: if you are mining/NPCing and enemy enters local instead of going to safe just LOG OFF.
And now whiney part: can we somehow stop this?
Im tired of uncatchable people who log when you enter the system, and when you camp exits they log as soon as they fall into dictor bubble?
Same for whole fleets - lately our enemies bring 30-40 ships and as soon as we get our 20-30 ships they go to safe and log off. Impossible to catch em (snipers + cloakers), impossible to probe them.
The best idea i had was to make logoff timer longer: not seconds (dont remember how much it is atm) but abt 10 minutes so it is possible to probe em out if you are FAST.
I guess many ppl will whine, but look on this:
if you are in safe space 10 minutes is nothing, if you are in station it doesnt matter. This thing will only benefit gangs which have probes ready and can get close to safe fast. And will stop those pesky log-off tactics.
Cant think other pros/cons atm - maybe will add sth later.
Ah and not sure in which subforums this should be posted.
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DeadDuck
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Posted - 2006.06.17 22:21:00 -
[3]
Signed
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Mongooze
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Posted - 2006.06.18 18:26:00 -
[4]
I agree. Probing is pretty useless now because as soon as you find someone's safe spot, they log off. You're only hope is that they are afk. Many times people have come into our system, quick ganked someone, then warped to a safe spot and loggged.
Your loot is mine! |
Angus McLein
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Posted - 2006.06.18 19:16:00 -
[5]
Why not just add Mega Anode Ion blasters to the probes to fire as soon as you find the ship?
You dults, I realize this is as ghey as crap. But EVE (for no apparent reason) sucks up a ton of bandwidth...so, for the computer illiterate, means EVE disconnect from the internet a lot because of a minor fault in the connection.
Meaning if your ratting and someone jumps in to local and for some stupid reason you disconnect...your screwed. That would be even more ghey.
Keep it as is.
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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.18 20:50:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 18/06/2006 20:51:09
There is 100 disconnects on purpose to 1 EVE crash (yeah counted this myself - yesterday had abt 60-70 enemies log, today abt 30 - and i crashed once).
And still: even if you crash you can manage to restart game etc before enemy probes you (if he knew which belt you were it takes 3-4 minutes to probe, if he didnt it takes 10-15minutes) and put up decent fight.
Atm we have fleets of 40ppl logging just under our noses knowing that they are invulnerable to everything. Dont tell me 40ppl "crash" at once - at least 4 times a day and ONLY when we bring larger force.
I can have even my ship explode once per day ONLY if i can have means to probe out those loging bastards.
Also: when someone jumps on local you are NOT instantly screwed. You still warp 1mil KM away, and still enemy needs to bring probes.
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Angus McLein
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Posted - 2006.06.18 23:03:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 18/06/2006 20:51:09
There is 100 disconnects on purpose to 1 EVE crash (yeah counted this myself - yesterday had abt 60-70 enemies log, today abt 30 - and i crashed once).
*******Irrelevant. Your connection may be better than the average persons. *******************
I can have even my ship explode once per day ONLY if i can have means to probe out those loging bastards.
********** Irrelevant again. Not everyone can afford what you can, much less one ship a day. ***************
Also: when someone jumps on local you are NOT instantly screwed. You still warp 1mil KM away, and still enemy needs to bring probes.
************ Im saying when someone jumps in the belt and then lag hits and you disconnect. By then when you log back on youll either be in a pod/dead/ or being scrambled and noss'd - drone'd and whatever else your opponent may have. ****************
My whole point? Id say a fleet of 40 people getting away is better than an angry customer who cant replace his ship because of internet dis-connect...
What you can do to help: Get ccp to fix the bandwith suck and then your problem can be fixed. Until then its not worth angry people with bad connections getting angry because there ship wont jump for 10 freakin' minutes.
And on a side note: You cant just 'Log Back In' once your connection goes. Sometimes its gone for hours, sometimes for minutes. Either way it the average connection fails for about 15 minutes. Plenty of time for even a moron to find you with probes and kill you because YOU dont warp for 10 MINUTES. Id quite EVE for something this stupid.
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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.18 23:28:00 -
[8]
So propose other alternative. Something to stop loggers.
BTW: my scout survived some camps today. Oh - he lost connection 5 times in a row. What a misfortune 
Quote:
Id say a fleet of 40 people getting away is better than an angry customer who cant replace his ship because of internet dis-connect...
Atm im angry customer that cant play the game because when i want to remove hostiles from my space they log. So there is no point in "contolling sector" when you cant remove loggers from it. And i guess there are more "angry customers" with same problem i have atm.
And question to you: how often do you drop from game when someone enters local? Every time? If yes - then i'd advise you to stop playing EVE, cause travelling thru any empire system must be real pain.
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Kusotarre
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Posted - 2006.06.19 02:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Angus McLein
My whole point? Id say a fleet of 40 people getting away is better than an angry customer who cant replace his ship because of internet dis-connect...
What you can do to help: Get ccp to fix the bandwith suck and then your problem can be fixed. Until then its not worth angry people with bad connections getting angry because there ship wont jump for 10 freakin' minutes.
And on a side note: You cant just 'Log Back In' once your connection goes. Sometimes its gone for hours, sometimes for minutes. Either way it the average connection fails for about 15 minutes. Plenty of time for even a moron to find you with probes and kill you because YOU dont warp for 10 MINUTES. Id quite EVE for something this stupid.
Ridiculous.
A bandwidth problem with Eve, if there even is one, does not cause you to lose connection to Eve for an average of 15 minutes. If this is happening to you, and you want to fix it, you'd probably do better talking to your ISP than complaining on the E-O forums, because your problem clearly will not be resolved here.
Also, for you to lose a ships to one of your accidental disconnections requires more than just a drop. It requires you to drop, for there to be enemies in system, for them to have a cloaker nearby or a probe launcher offlined on their ship, for you to be unable to log back on.
Let's assume that the first one, you disconnecting, happens fairly regularly. I'll pull a number out of my ass and say every hour.
The other 3 necessities are unlikely, unless you NPC in HED-GP, then you're down to two. We'll assume you NPC somewhere safer. Three unlikely coincidences must conspire to get you killed. These things multiply. 1 in 1000 chance for NPCerers to appear just as you drop. Another 1 in 50 for them to have a probe launcher. And lets say 1 in 100 for you to be unable to reconnect. Well damn. That's a 1 in 500,000 chance of you dying each time you drop. Manipulate the numbers up or down, and the odds are just as unlikely.
I find the vanishingly unlikely loss of your ship more palatable than having entire fleets log off to evade another fleet. I prefer the once a year loss of your ship to the daily disappearance of countless miners and NPCers I see log off every day I'm in enemy space.
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Kusotarre
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Posted - 2006.06.19 02:38:00 -
[10]
Oh, and I will add that it is not incumbent upon CCP to find solutions to your connection issues when the solutions in place for those issues cause problems and headaches for the 99% of Eve that doesn't have these problems.
Lets look at another example to illustrate my point.
I have a crappy computer. In large fleets, it can take me a minute, as in, a full minute, to load all the hostile ships. This is with closed overview, effects and turrets off, etc. A full minute! Sometimes, I die.
Should CCP not allow anyone to shoot until I've loaded? Should I be invulnerable until I've loaded it all? Should my ships be replaced because I don't want to upgrade my graphics card and CPU? The clear answer to all three questions is 'No', and the reason the answer is 'No' is because any solution to my problem makes the game annoying and upsetting for many times more players than myself.
Same deal with your connection issues. If you want them to go away, get broadband. And don't bother pointing out that you live in some backwater village without broadband, because it's irrelevant to the issue. It's not CCP's fault you don't live in a well populated city or a country with a real plan for internet access. It's not CCP's fault, and nor is it the fault of players who have to put up with logging miners and NPCers and freighter pilots.
It's your problem.
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prathe
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Posted - 2006.06.19 03:28:00 -
[11]
there is alot of things to take into account with loggers and unfortunatly i dont really see anything being done about it any time soon .
lately my corp and i have been lucky with loggers the last 2 logged after being hit with one weapon or another and as a result were easily probed out destroyed and podded .
but for example lets say you have some kind of emergency or something that requires attention in rl and you have to log to address it . what then lose your ship because of an out of game cause . this unfortunately creates an window that can be exploited but i have no idea how to fairly limit logging without a penalty for legit loggers .
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Kusotarre
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Posted - 2006.06.19 05:54:00 -
[12]
I don't see how it hurts legit loggers. Legit loggers have time to warp to deep safe and then log. Or to warp to a POS and idle. Or to dock.
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Terradoct
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Posted - 2006.06.19 07:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Amizu
Anyone who was in 0,0 probably knows the drill: if you are mining/NPCing and enemy enters local instead of going to safe just LOG OFF.
And now whiney part: can we somehow stop this?
Im tired of uncatchable people who log when you enter the system, and when you camp exits they log as soon as they fall into dictor bubble?
Same for whole fleets - lately our enemies bring 30-40 ships and as soon as we get our 20-30 ships they go to safe and log off. Impossible to catch em (snipers + cloakers), impossible to probe them.
The best idea i had was to make logoff timer longer: not seconds (dont remember how much it is atm) but abt 10 minutes so it is possible to probe em out if you are FAST.
I guess many ppl will whine, but look on this:
if you are in safe space 10 minutes is nothing, if you are in station it doesnt matter. This thing will only benefit gangs which have probes ready and can get close to safe fast. And will stop those pesky log-off tactics.
Cant think other pros/cons atm - maybe will add sth later.
Ah and not sure in which subforums this should be posted.
2 words - local chat
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Dronte
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Posted - 2006.06.19 07:40:00 -
[14]
I must say i really cant see how local chat can avoid loggers? The most of them are actually proud of their "tactics"
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Rimini Toranos
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Posted - 2006.06.19 09:37:00 -
[15]
As a matter of fact, mass fleet logging should be petitionable as griefing other players.
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zerospace
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Posted - 2006.06.19 09:38:00 -
[16]
Or atleast make it that when enemies come to systems with your sov, if they log, they stay in space. Until they log back on or get probed and killed :)
Ready for your deadtime story ? |
Syri Dominus
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Posted - 2006.06.19 12:10:00 -
[17]
Or why not simple just talk CCP to death until they implement some basic testing whether it is the connection that dropped or the player.
There are easy ways to catch the everyday cheater, of course you can always do it the real way and plug the cable or use appplications that force the socket offline, but then you are slightly more serious about it.
This should even be known by the server when people disconnect to whether it was mutual or reset/failed.
And people that log off the usual way in a fight get hanging there for a min or two. Not perfect, it can't be, but it is a whole lot better I guess.
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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.19 12:21:00 -
[18]
If they log in fight there is 15min aggro timer - so they hover in space (1mil km from you) until timer ends.
Biggest problems are ppl that are not aggroed and logged - even inty cannot lock em because they start warping (lock on broken) - so no chance to aggro. And sai person will disappear in 60 seconds (scan takes about 220 seconds on normal ship, 180 or less on covops frig).
I myself consider this an exploit - because it GIVES unfair advantage over ppl that play the game as it was supposed to be played.
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Gouglash
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Posted - 2006.06.20 07:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dronte
I must say i really cant see how local chat can avoid loggers? The most of them are actually proud of their "tactics"
I think his point was that the problem stems from local chat existing.
Perhaps local chat should be removed, or at least... nerfed.
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Prestis
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Posted - 2006.06.20 07:51:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Prestis on 20/06/2006 07:55:10
As said, local chat is a big cause of this. But I'd agree on a 10+ minute timer for all log-offs in 0.0 anyway.
Yeah, you might really get a CTD or need to quit in an emergency, but that stuff can happen mid-combat too. Should you be able to log-off and disappear scrambled in the middle of a fight incase it was a disconnect?
0.0 is dangerous space and having to get to a reasonable log-off spot (a station or empty system) should be part of the risk.
It's a pretty accepted principle in most MMOs that you can't just hit the power button whenever without a chance of loosing something.
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Kadreal
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Posted - 2006.06.20 08:12:00 -
[21]
Simple fix, make local non-dynamic update. You only appear on the list if you talk.
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Captain Havoc
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Posted - 2006.06.20 10:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
If they log in fight there is 15min aggro timer - so they hover in space (1mil km from you) until timer ends.
Biggest problems are ppl that are not aggroed and logged - even inty cannot lock em because they start warping (lock on broken) - so no chance to aggro. And sai person will disappear in 60 seconds (scan takes about 220 seconds on normal ship, 180 or less on covops frig).
I myself consider this an exploit - because it GIVES unfair advantage over ppl that play the game as it was supposed to be played.
QFT
Sharkbait, i know you read this section often, can we get some sort of feedback/opinion from you on this? you guys must be aware of the problem...
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"Acta non Verba"
Forums: http://www.eve-link.com/glf |
Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.22 23:32:00 -
[23]
Can we get some word if this is gong to be fixed/looked at? Atm logoff traps are the best way to kill enemies and there is NO WAY to stop ppl doing this.
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Azmodan Morwynion
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Posted - 2006.06.24 13:49:00 -
[24]
Yes... Havinng people logging off from the game can be extremely annoying.
However, think that if the loog off systems is changed, this will also effect all the other players and might create a big mess.
For example.... I was running a mission on a safe space and the minute the pirates showed up, Eve's server fell, and I was disconected. If the log off system wasnt made as it is, my ship would have been lost. And it wouldn't be my fault.
So in that case, would CCP give me back an identical ship with an identical equipment and all the contents of the cargo hold (which means that they should be monitoring all of the above for every single player). I dont think so!! Not even CIA does so much 'monitoring'
So a course of action to 'solve' the 'problem' of loggers, should be carefully planed to minimize the unwanted side-effects.
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Fusion X
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Posted - 2006.06.24 22:44:00 -
[25]
Only roblem i can see is ship spam, lots of logged of folks ships just sitting there for 10mins. picture Jita, the horror! the HORROR!
Signature removed, Your Too sexy to have one, i love u, Hugs and Kisses - Ivan K |
FawKa
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Posted - 2006.06.25 13:52:00 -
[26]
I agree that it is a problem, but solving it by just giving a timer of 10 min to all is a bit laugh.
Your eve crashes, so you log of, but your ship will stay in 10 mins? this wouldnt be too cool if you are on mission, complex or pvp'ing.
Maybe it should be giving to the angro timer (if the timer is about a char, not serpentis corporation ). If you log, your ship will still warp out to a SS, but your ship will stay there and not disapear before the angro timer is done.
- again, a miner can still run as he has no angro timer o_O
FIX BEFORE FEATURE BRIGADE! |
Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.25 16:03:00 -
[27]
FawKa
Yeah - thats what im all about.
You log, ship warps to safespot but stays there for 10 minutes (if no aggro) and 15+ if aggroed.
No more: enemy is close, i log off and i disappear in 1 minute (no scanning possible).
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Loyal Servant
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Posted - 2006.06.25 18:24:00 -
[28]
I do not agree that logging off should be changed in any way.
While we do our gate camps we rarely get anyone that logs off... RARELY
Now, if they scout ahead first with an alt and then log we usually don't know
about it. However the alt is usually toast :)
Fact is, that if it was you, you would probably log too.
But, now that I say that your response is going to be:
'i'm honorable and I would never cheat someone out of their gank!'
Reality is that there needs to be a defense against us gankers.
So, that is the thing that needs to be worked on.... not trying to nerf the logoff.
One thing that I would like to see as far as content would be concerned are something that players can hide in, such as a nebula or other sensor dampening space anomaly.
so, the player can fly into an area that basically nerfs scanners...
now, if you happen to fly into such an area after your target, and your lucky enough to
get close enough to find your target then your weapons tracking and targetting should be affectedd by your surroundings as well.
Call it deadspace... no microwarpdrives, poor sensors and tracking while inside of this
anomaly...
might be a nutty idea but I think it would be cool :)
Let them log off for now. I would if 20 guys jumped into a system in 0.0 and I was alone.
The Short Bus Squad [TSBS]
If your not on the bus, your under it. |
Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.06.25 20:04:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/06/2006 20:09:49
So as i understand you approve logoff as valid method of escaping combat? So lame...
And to be honest: atm I will probably log in camp because of ppl like you. Normally i dont care if i die or no (died on camps enough times and ships arent that expensive) but if one alliance/corp logs all the time in combat (TCF anyone?) then why shouldnt i do the same other way round?
Also: you call it defence against gankers. And what abt ppl that log off even in 1v1 situation when you have much weaker ship? "I dont want to gank you so i will log off"?
Sorry to say but loging off has to go. EVE supposedly has harsh death penalty but still ppl escape combat itself. Maybe we should do it korean MMO way where when you log off you sit in same spot for 30 minutes? Yes, they also disconnect etc - but they live with it.
As for noobscouts - this should deserve another topic IMO (and i guess it had many already).
Quote:
Let them log off for now. I would if 20 guys jumped into a system in 0.0 and I was alone.
I already have a lot of ppl that log off as soon as i pass with shuttle - EVERY freaking time. No - i never went to them with more than 2 sihps (me+ a friend). And even when they had 2 ravens + others in pos (probably heavier ships cause deimos was on scanner) they too did log.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.06.26 08:57:00 -
[30]
They don't want to play with you. Accept it?
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
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