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DarKDruG
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Posted - 2006.06.18 23:38:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Paigan
Edited by: Paigan on 18/06/2006 17:48:10
Originally by: DarKDruG
i wonder why people call a manti imba because it has 3 launchers. if it uses the damage type it gets a bonus to (kinetic), you don't do a whole lot more damage than the others. Kinetic is one of the, if not the most tanked resistance in the game (looking at ship resists)
you do 150% damage of what the other bombers can do.
and still fit a lots of stuff in the meds, even tanking if you like.
150% damage of all others with no disadvantage is what i call imba.
Apart from that, kinetic is better than EM or explosive in PvP. And about the same as thermal.
...but that wasn't really the issue here, more like a side note.
i just ran a wee bit of a test across bombers. the damage gain is at maximum 140% of other bombers when it comes to raw volley damage. Granted you're right there, it does more damage. But dear man, are you delusional? i would say you are, if you tell me you can fit a tank on a manti once it has three launchers fitted.
the test i ran involved quickfit, all skills that are involved in bombers and cruise missiles at lvl 5. Each ship was (admittedly surrealistic) fitted with dread guristas cruise launchers and dread guristas bcu's (as many as possible of each). I chose these for the test seeing as require the least to fit. for ease of testing i put all resistances to 50%, i know this is not realistic but like i said, ease of testing.
Amarr (Purifier): PG left - 17.81 , CPU left - 97.75 | max volley damage: 1378.0 (hull), avg dps: 103.336
Gallente (Nemesis): PG left - 6.31 , CPU left - 140.5 | max volley damage: 1286.2 (hull), avg dps: 90.679
Minmatar (Hound): PG left - 11.56 , CPU left - 104.0 | max volley damage: 1378.0 (hull), avg dps: 103.336
Caldari (Manticore): PG left - 2.28 , CPU left - 109.75 | max volley damage: 1929.3 (hull), avg dps: 136.018
in this test, all ships were fitted for pure raw damage with the mods that required least fitting resources. I know dps is unnecessary as you're not gonna be in a prolonged fight, but rather doing hit and run, just thought i'd mention it though. if you're fitting for hard impact, it's rather obvious the manticore would win in volley damage, but looking at the fitting resources left, a tank is unmanageable unless you drop the damage mods. Fitting a whole lot of modules in the meds is just as unimaginable. Paigan, unless you've tried fitting a manticore, filling all it's slots, you wouldn't be spouting such nonsense.
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DarKDruG
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Posted - 2006.06.18 23:38:00 -
[32]
Edited by: DarKDruG on 18/06/2006 23:38:34
double post, plz remove.
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Alexandyr Kerensky
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Posted - 2006.06.18 23:58:00 -
[33]
balance the manticore when you balance the Thanatos.
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Bren Kasir
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Posted - 2006.06.19 00:55:00 -
[34]
Why does everyone list an AB in their bomber fitting? You can't tank anything for long enough to get off a second volley anyway, so you should be recloaking ASAP and using that med slot for a sensor damp or token multispec.
Bren Kasir
p.s. /Signed
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You want fries with that? |
Nyabinghi
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Posted - 2006.06.19 02:23:00 -
[35]
I think it be cool if you could fly in cloaked (this includes warp cloaked), decloak at 5K, unload a wack of smartbombs, recloak and fly off. The idea would be to weaken targets for other ships to lay the final blow.
I make cool banners for ISK.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.19 03:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ithildin
Doesn't need a ROF penalty at all. It's not like a Raven does decent damage with torps as it is, and that one has more launchers.
A Raven doesn't do decent dmg with torps?
750ish base dmg 6x every 7.5ish seconds isn't decent?
..er, you're right, Raven sucks! BOOST THE RAVEN!
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JafoPBCFR
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Posted - 2006.06.19 03:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: HippoKing
I've always wanted bombers to have torps with a huge volley damage and pathetic ROF and range. I've got that image from freelancer with the 2 german bombers de-cloaking and one volleying the battleship with torps in my mind.
Probably wouldn't be balanced, but would be cool 
Wouldnt that make them Submarines?? Im fine with your Idea though.
I feel the stealth Bomber is Ok on the sheild and Armor Dept. Sort of RL in my view. .
The SIg They said suddenly I couldnt have |
Jacinto Naysmith
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Posted - 2006.06.19 04:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Novarei
twould rock to be able to be in a group of 4 bombers, uncloak, set off volley, recloak, dead bs :D. They should be nukes or something :)
but probably imbalanced =/
Imballanced? 4 t2 equipped interceptors can kill a battleship, I don't see why 4 t1 equipped stealth bombers shouldn't be able to considering its suposed to be a bomber with damage as its specialty.
Also as is the manticore is far from imbalanced. While its better then its counterparts, even it is worthless. All bombers (including the manticore) need a major boost in some way. Additonally the current cloak prices just make these things an even bigger waste. Bombers cost 2+ times what an inty or assault frigate costs, yet is far less useful then either of those in combat.
Simply changing the bomber grid bonus from cruises to torps will just make bombers more useless. If its changed to that then not only would they not be able to kill large ships but they wouldnt be able to kill small ones either.
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Dethis
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Posted - 2006.06.19 04:19:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 18/06/2006 18:52:54
Originally by: HippoKing
I've always wanted bombers to have torps with a huge volley damage and pathetic ROF and range. I've got that image from freelancer with the 2 german bombers de-cloaking and one volleying the battleship with torps in my mind.
Probably wouldn't be balanced, but would be cool
QTF
Bonuses:
-75% torpedo ROF
10% Torpedo damage, 5% velocity increase per level.
Give them some nice 1kish dmg torps that take a good 30 seconds or so to refire. Excellent alpha strike ship that would come in, cripple the target, and run, or die trying.
edit: And don't forget that in FL, your speed added dmg to torps.
AB at target, fire torp, watch it go boomb. You could kill Hammerheads from full armor with the crappy torps by ABing at them before firing.
I really like this idea
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Kill em all and let god sort em out
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Norris Packard
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Posted - 2006.06.19 04:19:00 -
[40]
They could add a new modual that launches bombs, bombs would be a very short range massive damage item that will do low damage to small ships but would hurt battleships ok and hurt capital ships a lot too. not sure how to balance this idea it is ment for one volly kills so it would be a gank style combat but be more like what a bomber should do.
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Chochko
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Posted - 2006.06.19 07:28:00 -
[41]
Bombers are Crap at this moment Period
The only thing they can kill is: T1 frig, T1 Untanked Cruiser (if he is stupid), may be interceptor too (never killed one)
They need some kind of boost or general redesign.
----------------------------------------
Ancient Japanese saying:
The one who owns the minigun, fears not! |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.06.19 07:32:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 19/06/2006 07:32:41
Originally by: Ithildin
It's not like a Raven does decent damage with torps as it is
Err, qualify that?
Testy's Blog, Updated 15/06!
Name Team Minmatar, Win A Vaga!
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Kalaan Oratay
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Posted - 2006.06.19 07:38:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Norris Packard
They could add a new modual that launches bombs, bombs would be a very short range massive damage item that will do low damage to small ships but would hurt battleships ok and hurt capital ships a lot too. not sure how to balance this idea it is ment for one volly kills so it would be a gank style combat but be more like what a bomber should do.
Have to be fired from a certain range away (some sort of arming time), and make it posible to target and destroy them, like drones. Also make them very slow... >500m/s is what I'm thinking.
However, all this wont stop a 'crossfire' gank whereby you get spammed by bombers from multiple directions - but tbh, I think thats would be a well earned gank and should be rewarded ^^
Noones addressed the other problem with 'stealth bombers' yet though - not being able to warp cloaked (think someone mentioned it in passing)
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kveldulfson
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Posted - 2006.06.19 08:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Vera Nosfyu
For bombers to really be effective as, well, bombers, we need subsystem targetting. The Stealth bomber would be ideal for taking out turrets and whatnot because it does very high damage over a very small area. However, I still don't expect this to coem out any time soon.
I do hope that subsystem targeting never comes out in the game!!
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Spenz
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Posted - 2006.06.19 08:46:00 -
[45]
Too late they are already gonna add it in. I think it would be great. If they beef up shields and armor to a point where you need to take out critical subsystems (such as fire control, shield generators, engines, drone bay, turrets) it would make fleet combat pretty neat and more realistic. not a game of insta-popping primaries.
Besides you can repair subsystems in the repair shop so its not like you lose anything.
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cytomatrix
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Posted - 2006.06.19 09:57:00 -
[46]
I think currents bombers would be great if they can use subsystem targeting. A builtin module to target ship's Navigation systems, weapon systems, warp drive system. Imagine 3 or 4 SBs uncloaking and destroying Battleship's and carriers navigation system and warp drive. These systems should be repairable without using any modules. Some sort of builtin nanobots or something. Takes 5 mins or so to repair but the time is affected by a skill.
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Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2006.06.19 10:17:00 -
[47]
I realy like the idea of a frig that can warp cloaked and carries nothing but 1 frig-citadel launcher which has space for 1 torp and the frig itself cargo for about 10more :D
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RedClaws
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Posted - 2006.06.19 10:39:00 -
[48]
are there any plans yet for the cruiser version of stealth bombers?
Same as frigversion (slow , vulnerable) but packing 4 torps would be cool
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Dano Sarum
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Posted - 2006.06.19 11:18:00 -
[49]
While we're at it, can we get ships with boarding parties of space ninja-pirates... oh, and make it so we can train it in under a day on a trial account so we can steal machs... and the ninjas can also captain any ship they steal and make it join your fleet of evil-space-ninja pirates wtfpwning everyone solo!
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RedClaws
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Posted - 2006.06.19 16:23:00 -
[50]
but...i don't even like ninjas
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THX 1138
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Posted - 2006.06.19 16:56:00 -
[51]
Sheesh! I really like the Stealth Bombers as they are (The Hound and Manticore anyway - never flown the other two) - they make for immersive and intelligent gameplay.
Sure, they could use more power/cpu, more missile hardslots, more speed, better resistances... and they're practically screaming for an agility bonus. As it is I have a lot of the required skills maxed out and I still have to spend a good 15-20 minutes making the stuff fit.
The best solution IMO is a new skill dedicated to SB's - Stealth Bomber Specialisation (this idea has been spouted before). It gives an additional small bonus to grid and agility per level. Or maybe some stealth bonuses (for example your missiles will fly for 5 seconds per level if you cloak after firing... sweeeet ).
One more thing - using the offline ship fitter is a little bugged with SB's - I am able to fit it much better in-game than offline - I haven't had the patience to work out where the difference is.
A lot of the ideas in this thread have merit - but it may be better to apply them to the cruiser-class bomber if/when it comes out.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.06.19 17:39:00 -
[52]
bombers with torps would be cool. As they are now, bombers pretty much suck at just about everything.
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Kalisis
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Posted - 2006.06.19 17:52:00 -
[53]
Originally by: RedClaws
but...i don't even like ninjas
How can you not like ninjas 
Ninjas rule
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Elegant
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Posted - 2006.06.19 17:57:00 -
[54]
I like the idea of adding torps to Bombers, but I always had the idea that the range on the bomber torps should be very limited. So you get this huge burst damage, but you have to sneak dangerously close to the BS. For example the range would be barely 1km off the distance at which orbiting drones start running the risk of decloaking you. So you got to sneak into that sweet spot but once you do you can put out devastating damage.
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Doc Brown
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Posted - 2006.06.19 18:22:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Doc Brown on 19/06/2006 18:23:49
Originally by: HippoKing
I've always wanted bombers to have torps with a huge volley damage and pathetic ROF and range. I've got that image from freelancer with the 2 german bombers de-cloaking and one volleying the battleship with torps in my mind.
Probably wouldn't be balanced, but would be cool
How about the total opposite?
F.ex.: Torps with a long range and fast ROF and damage, but much slower flight speed. One bonus would be that they could fire a round of bombs(torps) and recloak while the torps 'fell' towards the target.
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Harlequinn
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Posted - 2006.06.19 18:28:00 -
[56]
Meh... Just use Cruise Furys.
They're slow, short ranged, and do awesome damage vs BS or frigs.
--Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.-- |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.06.19 18:36:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Harlequinn
Meh... Just use Cruise Furys.
They're slow, short ranged, and do awesome damage vs BS or frigs.
but but but but... range torps make a very nice BOOM!
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Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2006.06.19 18:37:00 -
[58]
They should just fix the bombers so you could actually fot em. The Nemesis has 5 grid after you fit clcok and 2 cruise launchers! And that's with maxed fitting skills and best named launchers! It's Gimped with a capital "G" yet CCP does nothing!
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes |
Bob Niac
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Posted - 2006.06.19 19:33:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jon Xylur
They should just fix the bombers so you could actually fot em. The Nemesis has 5 grid after you fit clcok and 2 cruise launchers! And that's with maxed fitting skills and best named launchers! It's Gimped with a capital "G" yet CCP does nothing!
umm MAPC any1?
ICSC Sales Forum |
13th
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Posted - 2006.06.19 19:46:00 -
[60]
My solution to fix bombers in general:
A new launcher module that can only be fit on stealth bombers (much like strip miners can only be fit on barges) that is able to launch torpedos, cruise missiles and citadel torpedos. Add a tech2 version of the launcher that is able to launch the tech2 variants of those missiles.
Add appropriate bonuses/penalties to make each weapon a viable type against specialized targets. Cruise missiles long range against frigates and cruisers. Torpedos against cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships. Citadel torps against battleships & capital ships. They shouldn't do enough damage to slaughter everything, but they should definately be a contendor if you need some nice (delayed) alpha-strike damage.
Allow the bomber to reload while cloaked.
Make citadel torps targettable.
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