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Darkstarr
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Posted - 2003.09.27 11:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Darkstarr on 27/09/2003 11:29:53
In 1998 Ultima Online, the first MMORPG of its kind, was released. The developers had a vision that its playerbase would build a living breathing world where good would fight evil, where players would be able to police themselves and the game world would appeal to all sorts of types... merchants, PvP'ers, explorers, roleplayers etc etc.
Sadly this didn't go as planned. With UO being the first game of its kind, Origin (the game developers) had no idea how things would actually be in this new world they created.
The playerbase failed to police itself and sadly the game became a haven for smack-talking exploiting player killers. This led to countless cancelled accounts and nerf upon nerf until the orginal vision of UO was lost. Today UO is a shadow of what it could have and should have been.
The underlying reason for its demise were those first few griefers that used every known exploit and loop-hole to get an advantage over their fellow player. They weren't interested in roleplay, they weren't interested in the long term vision of the game. All they cared about was how Uber they were, how many people they could kill and grief, and how many times they could ruin a fellow players enjoyment... to hell with what Origins visions where, they just wanted instant respect, gratification, and glorification even if it meant exploiting the game mechanincs, bugs, and general griefing to get there..
As Origin succumed to the harsh reality of what they'd unleashed, they began to nerf the game... they made it harder on the PVP crowd and catered more for the larger populace of 'carebear' players if you will - afterall this is where the majority of their income came from.
So the trash talking Uber PvP'ers where finally forced out or forced to change their playstyle.
Now the really funny part is those very same greifers blamed everyone but themselves for what happened to UO. They blamed the developers for ruining 'their' play style, for fixing those exploits and loop-holes that made them so Uber in the first place, they blamed the 'carebears' for crying to the developers for this nerf or that nerf. They blamed everyone but themselves and their own un-restricted actions.
Fast forward to May 2003, 5 years later CCP release EVE with a similar vision to what Origin had.
And guess what? Those very same Uber players haven't changed or learned a thing from all the MMORPGs that came before it... the game is released and low and behold those players use every known loop-hole and exploit to get ahead. And when CCP begin fixing these loop holes and making things harder for these so-called 'pirates', the pirates ***** and moan at the carebears for crying for nerf after nerf, cancel their accounts and blame everyone but themselves once again. Sadly these types of players will always be around in the world of online gaming. They're good at what they do and are probably very skilled and dedicated for the time they're around, but they lack one vital thing that would make them truly a respected and worthy asset to an online gaming community - and that is long-term vision.
Players like Lord Zap and Stavros lasted what? 3? 4? months... These types of players will be quickly forgotten. They came, they saw, they exploited, they *****ed 'n moaned, and in a blink of an eye they were gone - leaving in their wake the rest of us who have to live with the artificial restraints forced upon the Devs at this time (i.e. Uber Concord, sentry guns at every gate, 100% safe systems etc etc).
In a years time EVE will have matured and the players that are left will be the ones who have the long-term vision - not the quick instant gratification fix type players. In a years time is when the true visionaries, the best PVP'ers, and those players actually deserving of respect will emerge because in a years time all these Uber kids will have been weeded out and only the toughest will remain.
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Darkstarr
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Posted - 2003.09.27 11:31:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Darkstarr on 27/09/2003 11:45:37
However, I do say thanks to the likes of Lord Zap and Stavros for bringing to the attention of CCP those exploits and loop holes you found, thanks for adding some badly needed content while the Devs concentrated on more pressing matters, thanks for making the first few months of Eve a little more interesting than what it would have been, but all in all I'm glad to see you going. EVE is not the game for your type of MMORPG player, its much more than just a Counter Strike in space... its about politics, its about intrigue, exploration, great battles, wars that actually mean something, personal challenges, goals, longevity. Its about PvP on all levels not just whose got the Uber guns. In a years time, when Stavros and his ilk have been weeded out, thats when the real EVE will come alive because the players that are left then will have a years investment in their characaters, a years experience in building up a relationship with their fellow player, a years invovlement in the growth of the EVE storyline.
Anyone who comes along in a years time and thinks he can jump straight in and be Mr. Uber in a week (UO-style) probably won't last his months free trial period. The EVE universe in a years time will not allow that type of player to thrive.
This is why I'm looking forward to what the future holds for EVE. This is why I don't ***** and moan about the current nerfs and bugs etc (yes i've lost ships to CTD's too).
The game is very young, the developers will get there in the end, and for every Stavros that quits, thats less time the Devs need to spend on artificial restraints like sentry guns at every stargate, overpowerd Concord police etc etc. For every Stavros that quits, hopefully the Devs can loosen those artificial restraints that are currently needed. In a years time maybe we'll be able to police ourselves more as the last of Stavros's ilk of exploiting, noob-podding, trash-talking kids will be a long forgotten memory.
I truly hope EVE will survive all its teething problems and becomes the game the vast majority have envisioned it to be... because then those that are left will be a part of something truly uniquie and special in the world of MMORPGs - and not just another Trammelized Ultima Online.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.27 11:31:00 -
[3]
That was kind of inspirational.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
SavX
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Posted - 2003.09.27 11:45:00 -
[4]
Darkstarr, that was a great story. Read it all. Very true. I'm going into PVP, but first I'm training my mining skills, got Miner II's, getting all the mining gear. On Chaos i'll practise and see what you can do, then I'll go on TQ train the skills I need and go fight. Don't want to dive right in :D
Don't Kill The Corp.. Kill the Suppliers. |
Avaton White
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Posted - 2003.09.27 12:02:00 -
[5]
Excellent post!
------------------------------------------------
"The best defense is a dead opponent." - Avaton White
"The very notion of adding new features to broken code is self defeating to the point of being borderline insane." - Par'Nabuk
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.27 12:08:00 -
[6]
This is why I'm not aiming to be "remembered" (Well, not in-game anyway  ).
Just as...erm...wasshisface...with the hood....stuff, and....bugger.
The more you prattle on about being recognised, the harder it's gonna hit when you leave.
*Had no real point there, just expressing sexual frustration ina s lightly more controlled way*
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.09.27 12:10:00 -
[7]
kind of exactly my thinking. Very good points you made there.
Mai's Idealog |
Shill DeGruin
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Posted - 2003.09.27 12:28:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Shill DeGruin on 27/09/2003 12:30:29
Edited by: Shill DeGruin on 27/09/2003 12:29:48
Good post Darkstarr. I'd just like to add that it isnt just Exploiters who havent learned from the mistakes in UO .....it's the Developers too. Invariably these days MMROPGs are rushed out the door and developed "in vivo". All of them seem to be thrust upon us with glaring loopholes, poor design implementation and lack of content. Their conceptualisation may be good ( EVE is one of the best here ) but they just arent fleshed out.
Given time , yes I'm sure a game like EVE can fulfill a large part of its latent potential. However, in the competitive market of MMROPGs today , time is no longer a commodity that previous games like UO did indeed have.
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.09.27 12:30:00 -
[9]
Some people dont play to play a game, they play to beat a system.
You cannot tell me that someone with harvester drones out at a spawn point in a system, is having fun in ending helpless, by lag overrun victims.
People like these should be instantly banned, ip ban and a warning that if the player tries to connect again to the service, CCP will notify their ISP.
IRL, when i play monopoly, and i notice someone is cheating... I kick his ass out of the room and never play with him again, its so darn hard to do the same in a game where only CCP can do this.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Shill DeGruin
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Posted - 2003.09.27 12:46:00 -
[10]
I agree Dreamworks. There are indeed many ppl out there who play MMROPGs to simply beat the system and destroy others' enjoyment.
Over the years I have unfortunately come to accept this practice as par for the course in a new MMROPG, chiefly because Developers refuse to take a hardline stance.
Until this changes, I dont think MMROPGs as a genre will increase their appeal. In fact, it's my opinion that the MMROPGs of today are actually less fun than their predecessors ( despite the technological advancements that have made online gaming more accessible ).
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Hanse Davion
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:01:00 -
[11]
Good post, but I have to say that I do disagree with some of the things you stated. I'm not a PvPer but when I wanted to try it out and when I got into Eve it was with the understanding that it was a Player Vs. Player game.
From the very start people were whining about getting killed and how unfair it was and that anyone that did PvP was a griefer. The part that I fail to understand is that if someone doesn't want to have PvP why did they buy this game in the first place? If all I wanted to do was mine and kill npcs I would have continued to play Earth and Beyond.
True some people used loop-holes in the system to kill numerous people, I wouldn't call them exploits IMHO. Reason being CCP was informed of them during Beta and made no effort to fix them, therefore leading people to believe it was ok to use them. For far to long everyone has blamed the PC pirates, but what about CCP? They designed the game, aren't they responsible for some of it?
Like you pointed out, MMORPGs have been around for a long time now. Yet CCP has made the same mistakes that it seems everyone single MMORPG before it made. For example:
1)Under estimating the intelligence of the player community. Let's face it for some strange reason CCP seems to have thought that it would take months for us to Cruiser and Battleships. I saw Cruiser in the first month and Battleship not long after that. Is it the player's fault that they had Battleships sooner then CCP thought they would and could wreck havoc throughout the game because of it?
2) Creating empire vs non-empire space seemed like a good idea at the start, but soon it became a major sore point to me. Why? Because all the best stuff was in non-empire space and that was controlled by PvPers. I remember when I first formed my Corp, no one wanted to go to non-empire space and fight pirate cruiser because the frigates were giving us hell in .4 space....LOL Little did we know that back during the first 3 or 4 months NPC cruiser were weaker then NPC frigates. An to top it off their rare item drop rates were way to high. So you have these groups that went out there and killed them day and night while the rest of us tooled around empire space trying to make a buck.
3) Taking into account the above mentioned items when CCP finally fixed this issue did they relieve these people of all thier ill gotten gains? Nope so after the fixes the items they collected which now hardly ever drop started selling for 3x the amount. An because the market was flooded with all these rare modules no one would buy standard modules from NPCs or Players.
4) Do you remember the factory slot/research slot/office space problem? Can't blame the griefers there, because the slots should never have been that cheap and add to that the fact that the code was bugged so you didn't have to pay for the slots. We the community blame the players that took advantage of the bug, instead of blaming CCP because they should have fixed it.
How many problems could have been solved by banning repeat exploiters, instead of altering the entire game to control them? Do you remember the whole M0o debacle? CCP flat out dealt with that situation completely wrong and the rest of the community was hurt by it IMO. Did all the changes they made stop M0o from putting up blockades?
I could keep going pointing out the short comings of CCP but I think you all get the idea. Eve HAD the potential to be a great game, but I'm not sure that it can come back from the sad state it's in now. At this point it's no better then Earth and Beyond and just as boring. I'm not going to cancel my sub just yet because I have to believe things will change one day, but I won't hold my breath.
IF IT WAS UP TO ME I WOULD DO A PLAYERWIPE AND START OVER FROM SCRATCH. But that is just my opinion, I'm sure I'll get flamed for it but that is the wonderful thing about free speech :-) I mean for real if CCP wiped all the players do you honestly believe that the majority of people would leave the game? I don't think so, because Eve is the only game in town so it's not like we have anyplace else to go...LOL
2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage. |
great white
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:05:00 -
[12]
From the very start people were whining about getting killed and how unfair it was and that anyone that did PvP was a griefer. The part that I fail to understand is that if someone doesn't want to have PvP why did they buy this game in the first place? If all I wanted to do was mine and kill npcs I would have continued to play Earth and Beyond.
so very true...
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:23:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 27/09/2003 13:24:16
Not everyone buy every game out there. I bought EVE 'cause it was an upgrade of Elite and didn't automatically mean jedi and trekkies would recite their l33tness speech from Return of the Jedi to me in klingon.
Thinking people bought EVE for unrestricted playerkilling in space makes you narrowminded and lacking a boxcutter.
Convert Stations
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great white
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:30:00 -
[14]
yes but carebears who bought eve knowing it is a pvp based game and then complain about it are just idiots..
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:33:00 -
[15]
It depends on the issue at hand, if the game mechanics are unbalanced they need to be addressed, if that somewhat makes your easy kills harder... Well, if it were me I'd be happy to see the game getting more challenging.
Whoever made it a physical law for pirates to be static and kill a certain quota every day anyhow?
Convert Stations
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Hanse Davion
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:36:00 -
[16]
**** you Danton I gave my opinion and did so in a respectful manner based on the stated purpose of the game. Narrowminded for reading the box before I spent my money I may be. But your little boxcutter statement if completely assine and you can ******* kiss my skinny ass *****. I lost a brother in tower 1 and don't ******* appreciate your pathetic ass attempt at a flame.
2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 27/09/2003 13:41:14
Oh I didn't realize the boxcutter stopped being a tool post 9/11, the world most come to an end and vigils imposed on EVE till the end of days. 
Geez man, think outside the box, that's what the boxcutter was for...
Convert Stations
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Darkstarr
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:39:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Darkstarr on 27/09/2003 13:46:10
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for PvP. Infact I'll go as far as saying I'd much rather EVE had unrestricted PvP. But thats never going to happen because there's too many people out there that would abuse it. Being able to 100% police our own game would be a dream, but the truth is its far easier to be a bad guy and abuse, exploit and grief, than it is to be a good guy in this type of game. There are no real consequences for ones actions - at the moment.
However, beacuse EVE is different to all other MMORPGs out there due to its skill training system, new players can't quickly level up and compete against veteran players over a short period of time. So, in a years time, those of us who are still playing EVE will always be ahead of the new guy skill-wise and experience-wise. This can be off-putting to new players on one hand, but because the Stavros's of this world will have had their 'fix' and moved on, the remaining playerbase of EVE in a years time will hopefully be a more mature bunch and more respectful of their fellow player - the visionaries if you will. In-turn, EVE will then attract a more mature type of player. The griefers may come, but they won't stay because they'll never be Uber. They'll never be able to effect the game again to the extent the M0O's of this world did.
If that day ever comes, my hope is the Devs can come to a point where they can trust their customers enough to relax some of the restraints currently forced upon us by the early griefers and exploiters. If/when that day ever arrives, CCP's original vision of what they intended EVE to be will be realised.
Of course, these are just my own opinions and maybe I'm dreaming, but imagine being part of a MMORPG that truly is player-run!
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great white
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:47:00 -
[19]
i just came from a pvp server that is completley policed by it's players .there are rpk's random player killers who kill anyone they can for no reason at all.there are anti's who are more or less the good guys hunting the rpk's down and killing them.you learn the difference very quickly and it makes for a very exciting game.i also would like to see eve become an unrestricted pvp game.
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Basileus
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:48:00 -
[20]
 Quote:
2) Creating empire vs non-empire space seemed like a good idea at the start, but soon it became a major sore point to me. Why? Because all the best stuff was in non-empire space and that was controlled by PvPers.
Yes, I suppose a fairer, more realistic option would be to get all the good stuff in the 'safe' regions, but make them just a touch less safe. Thus, the 'haves' will live in a nice environment, with a big (but not unsurpassable) fence round it, whilst the 'have nots' will live in a sh*thole, and shoot each other for a living.
Then introduce a cyberdrug item, which will make you forget your miserable life; build one or two KFC places there... all done...  |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:51:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 27/09/2003 13:51:35
Making it so no alliance or PC corporation can effectively control already sovereign space would help.
Claiming Systems
Convert Stations
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Hanse Davion
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:51:00 -
[22]
Ok Danton, I apologize I over reacted, that is a sore point for me still. Takes more then a couple years to repair the pain of lossing a family member.
Darkstarr you got a point one day it may be like that, question is how many of us will be around to see it? I personally have gone from logging in every free moment I could make to logging in just long enough to start a new skill training, pay rents, and kill enough pirates to do it again in a couple days. Which when I actually put some thought into it I'm going to realize is a pretty stupid waste of money. I have spent more time playing Homeworld2 and C&C Generals this month then Eve and it don't case me anything other then the intial price.
I'm pretty attached to my character and currently have way to much time invested in him to even think about cancelling my sub. Yet if things don't start balancing out in the next month I have left on my sub I can't say I will keep going. I hope from the bottom of my heart that is not the case because like I said there is no other game in town that can compare to Eve even with all it's bugs.
2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage. |
great white
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:53:00 -
[23]
you know ill never understand the carebear mentality.why would you want to be safe and secure all the time? such a hum drum existance in your mining simulation .never to experience the game the way it is intended.it's not like this game has any bearing in real life go out and have some fun!
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:54:00 -
[24]
Quote:
you know ill never understand the carebear mentality.why would you want to be safe and secure all the time? such a hum drum existance in your mining simulation .never to experience the game the way it is intended.it's not like this game has any bearing in real life go out and have some fun!
How's that any different from camping jump-in points within 0.0 space?
Safe, profitable, no negative effects, hum-drum existence.
Funnily enough, that isn't the way the game was meant to be played, either.
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Hanse Davion
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:54:00 -
[25]
You missed my point Bas, forcing PvPers out of empire space did nothing but make them even stronger and futher unbalance the game. The have and have nots would not have been so unbalanced if they would have left the original map in place.
2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:56:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 27/09/2003 13:59:05
No need to appologize, knowing the feeling of great loss I'd advice you to try and not let your grief pour into objects which can offer no closure or release.
Focus on the harmful ideas and acts behind it all, the abstract, or else these things will have you trapped. Trappings are not named so for no reason...
Convert Stations
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Orlando Gardiner
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:57:00 -
[27]
Quote:
From the very start people were whining about getting killed and how unfair it was and that anyone that did PvP was a griefer. The part that I fail to understand is that if someone doesn't want to have PvP why did they buy this game in the first place? If all I wanted to do was mine and kill npcs I would have continued to play Earth and Beyond.
Foremost: An excellent inspiring post. And very much true.
As for the quote: I don't think the post is about PvP'ers who have a place of their own in this game. Pirates, PvP'ers and 0.0 sec area's play a vital role in any game imho. The good guys need bad guys to fight, simple as that.
As for the whiners, unfortunately, they'll always be there. Whatever the reason, fair or not, they will whine. We have to learn to live with that
Don't forget that the so-called Uber Pirates often whine the most when they get their ass handed to them.
As far as the griefing part. Example:
Pirates who get -10 sec rating, roam high security area unchecked and start to kill randomly noobs, unawary miners etc. have NOTHING to do with
* PVP
* Content
* whatever lame excuse one comes up with.
For me such behaviour is the equivalent of going to the kindergarten and startig fist fights with the 3-year old kids.
Although this is just a game, for the life of me I can't understand why would someone do this. It has nothing to do with CCP's fault, adding content, but it has everything to do with a serious RL character flaw IMHO.
As witht the post: Goodbye and good riddance, I won't miss such ppl, however famous and idolized they may be
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great white
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:04:00 -
[28]
camping drops is a part of a pvp based game..why dont you understand this?is this your first game with a pvp basis?
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:06:00 -
[29]
Quote:
camping drops is a part of a pvp based game..why dont you understand this?is this your first game with a pvp basis?
Camping drops is hardly "part" of a PVP game.
If you were so "into" PVP, you would take on these people when they had a chance to react.
As it stands, attacking when they're overloaded with lag, or whatever really, just reeks of cowardice and very little PVP skill, in my opinion.
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great white
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:08:00 -
[30]
player versus player has nothing to do with skill hun it's all about the kill...
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:10:00 -
[31]
Quote:
player versus player has nothing to do with skill hun it's all about the kill...
Not Player vs Player, it would be "Player Against Another Player Who Can't Fight Back Because Their System Hasn't Loaded The Enviroment Yet", or "PAAAPWCFBBTSLTEY" for short.
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great white
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:14:00 -
[32]
you need to realize that pirates are not the only players able to camp drops...get some friends together camp a drop and get some easy kills on a few pirates.it will make you feel better and it will punish your enemies.if getting your ass handed to you every once in awhile upsets you stay in empire space and stare at your asteroids.
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:16:00 -
[33]
Quote:
you need to realize that pirates are not the only players able to camp drops...get some friends together camp a drop and get some easy kills on a few pirates.it will make you feel better and it will punish your enemies.if getting your ass handed to you every once in awhile upsets you stay in empire space and stare at your asteroids.
Why?
The same Pirates who camp jump-in points are the same ones to run off and hide in a station when things get too tough for them.
Funnily enough, these are the same people who condemn non-PVP'ers for being "Carebears".
If you can't handle being hunted down, then don't do things that result in said hunting. Duh.
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great white
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:19:00 -
[34]
yes a smart player will run when he or she is outmatched what is your point?
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:21:00 -
[35]
Great white dismissed himself as a PK drone mistakening himself for a PvPer.
Convert Stations
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:22:00 -
[36]
Quote:
yes a smart player will run when he or she is outmatched what is your point?
My point is that the same people who scream "pwned" when they destroy a lagged out player, or rant about "cowardly pussies" when their targets run are the some people who, funnily enough, complain when _they_ get destroyed in a lag-out and are the first to run when outnumbered.
Don't flout yourself as a PVP'er if you're nothing but a cowardly tit.
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Macumba
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:22:00 -
[37]
Alexia, stick to what you know about - bottom feeding in empire space.
The forum warrior act doesn't become you.
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:24:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Alexia, stick to what you know about - bottom feeding in empire space.
At least I don't try and pump myself up into some heroic PVP'er.
I can openly admit how cowardly my actions are, just seems a lot of so-called "Uber Pirates" cannot.
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great white
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:24:00 -
[39]
here is my point if all you players distressed about pirates and upset from losing ships to them.band together and pwn them in thier own space.take the fight to them instead of crying to the developers to change the game into a hug fest .my 2 cents
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:25:00 -
[40]
Quote:
here is my point if all you players distressed about pirates and upset from losing ships to them.band together and pwn them in thier own space.take the fight to them instead of crying to the developers to change the game into a hug fest .my 2 cents
Pay attention, love.
It's been said that Pirates, when hunted, are usually the first to run away and hide in a station, hiding under the guise of "tactics".
These are the same people who camp jump-in points in Battleships when, even at that point, they outnumber the enemy.
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great white
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:27:00 -
[41]
gorrila tactics!!!! so what ,use what works..
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:29:00 -
[42]
Quote:
gorrila tactics!!!! so what ,use what works..
When people do use what works, the Pirates come up with ****-poor excuses to justify how easily they got whupped (The Reclaimer and various members of Sinister being prime examples).
Anyway, gorilla tactics?
*Snicker*
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kaylas
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:31:00 -
[43]
alexia do you really expect anything less from someone who camps a drop and kills you just because you showed up ?
lmao
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:32:00 -
[44]
Quote:
alexia do you really expect anything less from someone who camps a drop and kills you just because you showed up ?
lmao
Hurhur.
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NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:33:00 -
[45]
Edited by: NeoMorph on 27/09/2003 14:33:58
A lot of people get killed by the pvpers because they just don't check their route before they set out on autopilot.
First thing I do when planning a route is check ships destroyed in the last 24 hours and then check numbers of ships in space on my route.
If there is a large number of ships destroyed and over 4 ships in a system then I either avoid that route or dont go at all.
... and that's why I have NEVER been killed by a player pirate. In fact I have never lost more than one third of my shields even.
There are 5 rules that help in EVE pvp...
- Never follow m0o when they jump to another system
- If you think it's too hot RUN LIKE HELL
- Never follow m0o when they jump to another system
- Check the map before any journey
- Never follow m0o when they jump to another system
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<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:37:00 -
[46]
Please, PvPers are people which are considered having a method behind their madness, instaganking warpgates isn't PvP it's pure PK. Like has been said before on this thread, most these PKers would never be caught out in space for a real fight would there be a 1% chance of them losing.
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Singular
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:48:00 -
[47]
This entire thread is basically a carebear group-hug.
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:58:00 -
[48]
Define carebear, singypingy.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.27 15:18:00 -
[49]
There's a difference between UO and Eve:
UO lets you dye stuff and wear it.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Acuna Traos
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Posted - 2003.09.27 18:06:00 -
[50]
The reason PvP tend to be at gets and spawn points, is because there isn't much incentive to do it elsewhere. IMHO this should change when player owned stuff in space is in. If a corp has a mobile refinery then a pirate may be inclined to think that corp uses that area allot, or will at least go there regularly, and so will lay in wait near by, or even see if there is anything to take from the refinery.
I think just a little patience is needed. There are currently big holes in the picture that are slowly being filled.
On a side note, policing systems ourselves is too difficult because of all the PvP restrictions within empire space. There is no real incentive to be a bounty hunter. I think there should be missions, like agent missions, you can get sent on to deal with people that have recently instigated aggression in empire space. Remove the need for so many concord ships cause Joe Blogs can be given a mission (mid space) to go take care of a situation, for a reward (and maybe even have compensation in the contract for losing your ship if its a well known pirate). This way you could be sent after someone with high sec status and legally ship kill them without worrying about concord.
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2003.09.27 19:52:00 -
[51]
In my opinion, the whole idea of player policing is flawed. The community, taken as a whole, is not an intelligent being. It's a mob, it will act in a random way, with each player doing whatever he or she pleases.
Note how difficult it is to organize a random group of people into a pirate-fighting force. Can't be done, every individual has a private agenda, worries about losses, etc.
The "let the players police themselves" idea is based on the assumption that the community will organize itself into a state, with a government who can impose law and order. That's never gonna happen (who gets to be the government?), so instead the community is a mob.
We need to be policed by someone other than ourselves.
As to the PK/carebear issue... each individual in this game plays the game in order to maximize the side of it that he or she likes. PK'ers like to maximize their kills, just like NPC farmers like to maximize their kills, and the manufacturers/traders like to maximize their cash (and death means loss of profit).
I bought the game to manufacture and trade, and yes mine. PVP was listed on the box, but it was listed as an OPTION!!! Avoidable, if I wanted to avoid it. And so far it has been avoidable, to a degree. Obviously if the upcoming wars result in no safe haven anywhere, I will quit. Others will quit if the entire world becomes high sec. People will always quit when they don't enjoy the game anymore. There's no moral to be learned. |
Skokeh
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Posted - 2003.09.27 19:56:00 -
[52]
excellent post btw
and yes - i agree - there needs to be a continual balance in the game for all players to carry-out their "careers" (PvP, manufacturing etc...) with success
it is also key to the game that it is accessible to new people - is the key to long-term survival
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.09.27 20:08:00 -
[53]
Quote:
you know ill never understand the carebear mentality.why would you want to be safe and secure all the time? such a hum drum existance in your mining simulation .never to experience the game the way it is intended.it's not like this game has any bearing in real life go out and have some fun!
People must be able to build up assets to lose something, what fun is it to lose your velator right away?
When they want challenge they go out in 0.0 space for instance to mine bistot, its up to them to protect themselves...
This thread isnt about PvP aspect, its about people using cheats, exploits and abusing game mechanism.
Who likes cheaters anyway?
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http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Adrial
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Posted - 2003.09.27 20:09:00 -
[54]
i like to rollplay, and if it means rollplaying a "freedomfighter" then i say go for it, sure there are some things i'd like, such as being able to take the law into hands and such (ore theives should get something coming to em!)
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.27 20:12:00 -
[55]
In some areas of Eve, there is a single Law:
Survival of the Fittest.
Only the most powerful, the most cunning, the most daring, the most insane, the most ruthless will survive and thrive. But you don't have to be all those to do so. Just the one thing they all have in common "The Most".
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Cptn Stardust
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Posted - 2003.09.27 21:20:00 -
[56]
this isn't a reflection on how online games are coded, and no point looking at CCP for blame, they provided an environment that we could potentially have fun in.
This is a reflection on how society is going in the real world, not that i want to write an essay on that, but as we all know, this applies to all online player games.
Anyone ever thought about why there are so many people hell-bent on cheating, exploiting, and other-wise trying to ruin the fun for everyone else?
And the only way to deal with it is to come down hard on the exploiters |
Rising Sin
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Posted - 2003.09.27 21:31:00 -
[57]
I don't really get the point of the post other than it was a sum-up of the past few months. I actually like what the pirates did, since the system security system now makes sense. Back when EVE was first released, players had very little secure space and piracy was rampant all over empire space. The present system, which wouldn't have come around unless the pirates showed CCP the flaw in their design, makes more sense in every way.
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"If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right." |
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