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CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 09:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
all you paper dps warriors forget to compare dmg application properly.. you watch gun graphs and stuff without knowing target information.
look up rat specific hardeners, sig, velocity, orbit range, etc. and you'll see yourself that the one wearing pants on head is you. afterwards count in drone management, cycling painters etc etc. MJD cycling or even mwd.. which might be better option for non marauders.
golem was and is L4 king at the moment, there is just no way to be more lazy and complete missions as fast or faster than any other ship.
I have flown all those ships in l4's (basically all skills lvl5 - 2006 char)
rattler or typhoon or what the f ever might seem faster because you fiddle with stuff and time goes by faster.. |

Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 13:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:all you paper dps warriors forget to compare dmg application properly.. you watch gun graphs and stuff without knowing target information. look up rat specific hardeners, sig, velocity, orbit range, etc. and you'll see yourself that the one wearing pants on head is you. afterwards count in drone management, cycling painters etc etc. MJD cycling or even mwd.. which might be better option for non marauders. golem was and is L4 king at the moment, there is just no way to be more lazy and complete missions as fast or faster than any other ship. I have flown all those ships in l4's (basically all skills lvl5 - 2006 char) rattler or typhoon or what the f ever might seem faster because you fiddle with stuff and time goes by faster.. Anize Oramara wrote: drone dps is normally very well applied and with two t2 application rigs and two tps even the missile dps will be applied really well. best thing is you can focus missiles on bs and drone/s on cruisers/frigs.
No! you have to use different drones or sentrys in different missions where NPC-s orbit at different ranges.. managing that is alone pita. on 1200dps golem you shoot BS BC and Cruisers while light/med drones kill off all elite frigates or whatever small there is. TP+rigored cruises blap non elite cruisers. 2 Volley others, 3 volley BS-es.. some rare BS-es take 4-5 volleys. meanwhile not giving any f about tank or range...
You could have flown a ice cream truck into battle, yet know nothing if you tried to shoot stuff with your freezer instead of bribing the stuff with ice cream. :)
You dont have to allow rats to orbit you. You dont have to fit tps.
In the end if 1300dps on a 320 sig 275m/s target @ 100km before resists is not your cup of tea and you prefer waiting till rats arrive at 25km while chasing around frigates with lights, then its fine.
|

CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 13:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
you just dont get it....
you deal with everything else while you do not care about small elites and stuff.
and all that while hitting at max lock range
you can blabla what ever you want but we have better paper warriors here than you and me... research some and you'll find full chart of different ships completion times on almost all lvl4 missions.
oh and ofcourse you fit TP's with missiles. One must be stupid not to because you need to compensate sig radius for rat speed |

Sten Gunne
Vogon Inc
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 18:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
I fly a passive tanked rs and a golem for caldari space l4's. I get a fair amount of gurista/serp missions. Golem allows me to ignore jamming/damping by using bastion mod. Rs drone damage, the larger part of rs damage, is unaffected by jamming/damping. Do you get missions like this? Reason to use these ships. All your suggested choices do a nice amount of damage re: mission completion times. |

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories Vertical.
642
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 19:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
All the other arguments aside, you can also see it as a choice of what you'll be looking at all day long. Couldn't stand a CNR in my face, Golem looks like a drunken albatross. I'd do the RS 8)
Truly, if you cannot decide you should maybe try them all. Over time. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
|

Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 19:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
I have flown all three extensively in 4s. These are my opinions and a general guide to HOW I FLY THEM, there are other ways, this is not meant as a "This is the right way to do this", but if any of these ideas sound better to you it might help you decide what to do.
If you are already in a Raven the easiest thing for you to do is move into the Navy version. It will also be the most boring since you are already used to the play style. You will basically just be doing the same thing, but with less of a challenge. I won't talk about how I fly it since you already know how to use that boat.
If your "good drone skills" allow you to use T2 sentries(all four types have uses) and T2 Ogres then you should really give the Rattlesnake a go. I moved from the Navy Raven to the Rattle before either of them was rebalanced, and the Rattle was more fun for me. After the Rattle rebalanced I have tried them both again. I still like the Rattle more, but that is because I like always having something to click. If you don't mind micro managing things, and you don't mind splitting your DPS when appropriate, the Rattle is the way to go. I mostly use Cruise and Sentries-Sentries assign one to incoming frigate, assign the second to s different frigate, shoot cruises at a BC, repeat until all that are left are cruisers and battleships. Put everything on the battleships that are left. Drop out your Ogre II or Gecko to finish off cruisers as you move to the gate.
Between flying the old Rattle/Raven Navy and new Rattle/Raven Navy I flew the Golem. I use cruise missiles on it because furys missiles can one-shot anything but elite cruisers and BS. Angle BS take three volleys for the standard and four for the 1mil+s. Other ships take about 4. But since I like multi-tasking, this is the ship for me(in 4s) . Enter room, start to lock things, Drop mobile depot, drop salvage drones, kill any cruiser/BC, on the next(still living ship) tell your drones to salvage so that they will auto salvage everything, kill whatever you want because nothing can EW you or break your tank, use tractors(I fit 4) to pull in close things so that the MTU pulls the things out of your 48k tractor range, kill everything in the room. I use two republic painters and a federation web, this let's you one shot frigs(one is twenty frigs or so orbit out of web range, but you can overheat to get them in one cycle) When there are two things left to kill turn bastion off and lock up any remaining wrecks, assign salvage drones one per wreck manually so they mope up quickly, scoop the MTU, loot the container that is left, scoop your drones. If there is a gate you will want to do this twice with your jump in the middle. Remember that the bastion timer batches up with the MJD pretty nicely.
Edit: typos |

Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 19:51:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:All the other arguments aside, you can also see it as a choice of what you'll be looking at all day long. Couldn't stand a CNR in my face, Golem looks like a drunken albatross. I'd do the RS 8)
Truly, if you cannot decide you should maybe try them all. Over time.
This is a great idea. If you want them all why not Raven->CNR->Rattle->Golem. I the Rattle and Golem both still when I'm not doing incursions. I use the Rattle to blitz arcs, or anything that is not worth looting/salvaging and the Golem when the carcases can be converted to isk efficiently.
Also, I like flying my druken albatross, it's making duck face because it want's you to think it's a "pretty girl". |

Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
100
|
Posted - 2014.06.26 23:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
Flying a rattlesnake myself I can tell you the problem with the rattlesnake and probably any other missile boat aside from the golem. Effectiveness isn't measured in just dps or even applied dps. There is warpspeed, time refitting, basically many things. And the rattlesnake requires an extreme amount of refitting. Imho, if you want effectiveness don't listen to the dps is everything crowd. The golem is probably what you want. It always relies primarily on its launchers, and should be able to tank anything without always refitting.
After flying a rattlesnake for a longer time I've become very displeased by both its weapon-systems. But I think a golem wouldn't have these issues as strongly. Juggling 2 tracking scripts, a painter or two, drones, missiles and making sure the interaction between them all doesn't create overkill or underkill with the 1 second response time making sentries lose lots of dps. That said the one strong point for the rattler is that for its considerable dps it applies it very well at a far range compared to your average gunship. But the golem would probably outdo it because ease of use=dps/mission speed. |

CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 06:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Golem is lvl4 easy mode.
You can build insane tank 1500ish omni with some pimp modules. You need only one TP though 2 are better if you sacrifice tank.. lets say 1000ish omni lol
You can fit pimp MWD and still be cap stable ******** tanking not giving single f mission runner Ofcourse you will fit MJD
You dont have to deal with jammers, dampers... just whatever mission you get - go! no refit no hassle.
1100 launcher dps @ ridiculous ranges w TP
what rattler has? okay.. it could do more dps in theory @100 km but actually it wont because you will be playing like a piano over your keyboard and it's exhausting.. and gets boring fast.
golem in the other hand allows you to watch football with one eye and ocasionally press F1 |

Bubba Styles
Bubba Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 14:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Wow a huge amount of info. Thanks everyone for posting it's been a really good read. I think I'll go for the Rattlesnake (after some skill training) I like how its different from the Drake/Raven missile boats I've been using. It'll be a month and a half to train Sentry and Heavy drones to 5 but I can still run lvl 4s perfectly fine. |

baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
12158
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 04:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
If you want firepower get the rattle.
If you want tank get the golem.
If you want something cheap and not skillpoint intensive get the CNR. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |

stoicfaux
5025
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 15:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
But which one is best for running level 4s?
Answers should contain blitzing and/or full-clear completion times.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
963
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 17:26:00 -
[43] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Answers should contain blitzing and/or full-clear completion times.
Sounds like you have yourself a project. I might consider it but I'm on vacation for almost another week
I think the Golem is best compared to the CNR but it has nothing to do with tank. If you're uber tanking a cruise Golem you're doing it wrong. It only needs 2-3 slot tank not counting the Bastion module.
It's best due to the TP bonus and EWAR immunity. Using half the ammo is also a bonus.
I'm still partial to the CNR and still fly one for SOE missions because it gets less attention from gankers. |

Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
225
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 13:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Bubba Styles wrote:Wow a huge amount of info. Thanks everyone for posting it's been a really good read. I think I'll go for the Rattlesnake (after some skill training).
Big mistake, there is currently no good reason to fly a Rattlesnake unless you want to passive shield tank level 5s. Sure, its on-paper DPS makes EFT warriors have a bukake party all over each other but the reality is that it has a low ability to apply its damage. As other players have noted, refitting and managing this ship DPS is a huge pain in the ass. Golem takes less training time, tanks better, much easier to play and has better mission completion and looting times.
They really ****** the Rattlesnake with the loss of bonuses on all drones and the 400m3 drone bay, imo. This was a ship that does passive tanking best and doesn't have room to fit the omnis that are now required if one wants fast and small frigates to die in an acceptable time frame. Dealing with fast and small frigates was much more efficiently accomplished with bonuses to light drones and enough drone bay space to fit multiple flights of the proper drone type. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
635
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 13:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Geckos kill everything in the mission just fine. I've even gone back to Torps to kill the BSes that much faster on my RS.
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
87
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 14:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Bubba Styles wrote:Wow a huge amount of info. Thanks everyone for posting it's been a really good read. I think I'll go for the Rattlesnake (after some skill training). Big mistake, there is currently no good reason to fly a Rattlesnake unless you want to passive shield tank level 5s. Sure, its on-paper DPS makes EFT warriors have a bukake party all over each other but the reality is that it has a low ability to apply its damage. As other players have noted, refitting and managing this ship DPS is a huge pain in the ass. Golem takes less training time, tanks better, far superior damage application, much easier to play and has better mission completion and looting times. They really ****** the Rattlesnake with the loss of bonuses on all drones and the 400m3 drone bay, imo. This was a ship that does passive tanking best and doesn't have room to fit the omnis that are now required if one wants fast and small frigates to die in an acceptable time frame. Dealing with fast and small frigates was much more efficiently accomplished with bonuses to light drones and enough drone bay space to fit multiple flights of the proper drone type. Drones apply damage so easily and really, your main complaint is that you cant get omnis on a passive tank?
Active tank it, geez. Now your application problem is gone. |

Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
225
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 16:41:00 -
[47] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Geckos kill everything in the mission just fine..
they actually don't. Sure, some slower, fatter frigates die fine. I've waited up to 20 seconds for a gecko to kill a single frigate web scrambling me with 2 omnidirectionals equipped. They aren't the best choice vs battleships either, only a passable solution for dealing with smaller ships.
Spider drones take forever for geckos to hit too. Id much rather have the bonused lights for any pvp encounters as well. Only EFTards seem to like it. People who actually have played seem to be painting a different picture. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
636
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 16:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Geckos kill everything in the mission just fine.. they actually don't. Sure, some slower, fatter frigates die fine. I've waited up to 20 seconds for a gecko to kill a single frigate web scrambling me with 2 omnidirectionals equipped. Spider drones take forever for geckos to hit too. Id much rather have the bonused lights for any pvp encounters as well. Only EFTards seem to think the ship is good.
Yeah, no. I only have one Enhancer fitted and my gecko kills frigates just fine... most of the time in one shot. Sometimes it takes slightly longer, but you can always put out light drones for frigates if it bothers you so much.
I had no trouble at all with Spider Drones either.
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Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
225
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 16:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Geckos kill everything in the mission just fine.. they actually don't. Sure, some slower, fatter frigates die fine. I've waited up to 20 seconds for a gecko to kill a single frigate web scrambling me with 2 omnidirectionals equipped. Spider drones take forever for geckos to hit too. Id much rather have the bonused lights for any pvp encounters as well. Only EFTards seem to think the ship is good. Yeah, no. I only have one Enhancer fitted and my gecko kills frigates just fine... most of the time in one shot. Sometimes it takes slightly longer, but you can always put out light drones for frigates if it bothers you so much. I had no trouble at all with Spider Drones either.
Sorry you are flat out wrong or trolling. Bonused lights deal with fast frigates and spider drones infinitely better and without the need cut tank to fit omnidirectionals.
I thought this was common sense. Even the dev blog on drone changes state that heavy drones will have an even harder time hitting small, fast frigates than before Kronos. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
636
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 17:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Geckos kill everything in the mission just fine.. they actually don't. Sure, some slower, fatter frigates die fine. I've waited up to 20 seconds for a gecko to kill a single frigate web scrambling me with 2 omnidirectionals equipped. Spider drones take forever for geckos to hit too. Id much rather have the bonused lights for any pvp encounters as well. Only EFTards seem to think the ship is good. Yeah, no. I only have one Enhancer fitted and my gecko kills frigates just fine... most of the time in one shot. Sometimes it takes slightly longer, but you can always put out light drones for frigates if it bothers you so much. I had no trouble at all with Spider Drones either. Sorry you are flat out wrong or trolling. Bonused lights deal with fast frigates and spider drones infinitely better and without the need cut tank to fit omnidirectionals. I thought this was common sense. Even the dev blog on drone changes state that heavy drones will have an even harder time hitting small, fast frigates than before Kronos.
I didn't say light drones weren't better. I said the gecko was just fine at doing it without help. My tank isn't suffering from it either. As I said I only have one Omnidirectional Enhancer fit, which does absolutely nothing to harm my tank or dmg.
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Throne of Games
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.30 02:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
1 Fighter drone will 1 shot a frig with the current patch. I find it difficult that people resist to think heavies aren't capable as well. |

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1221
|
Posted - 2014.06.30 20:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Throne of Games wrote:1 Fighter drone will 1 shot a frig with the current patch. I find it difficult that people resist to think heavies aren't capable as well. Finding it difficult to believe that heavies sometimes or even often miss doesn't change the fact that they do.
|

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories Vertical.
647
|
Posted - 2014.06.30 21:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:But which one is best for running level 4s?
Answers should contain blitzing and/or full-clear completion times.
All are rather suboptimal for blitzing compared to a machariel due to traveltimes, especially since the mach can get even more warpspeed using rigslots - unlike those missileships.
Else, Golem got the longest (tractor beam to pick up mission objectives) "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
|

evomad2
The Straw Men
0
|
Posted - 2014.06.30 21:55:00 -
[54] - Quote
Similar to other peops here my mission character has all three ships. They all have their applications. I must admit I usually do /lazymode and fly a MJD RNI with extended lock range, max gank and minimal tank. I find it best to MJD away when landing in a room, blap everything, then MJD straight down to the next gate. I will generally use a Rattler for Guristas missions though, as with drones no f***ks are given about ECM. On the whole I would say my completion times for any given mission (without ECM involved) are generally lower in the Rattler compared to the RNI, mainly because I'm either waiting for drones to travel (especially in rooms with groups far apart) or sat stationary with sentries and not approaching the next gate. I have the Golem set up for torps and tank as it plays to the strength of the ship (uber tank) for those nice close/mid range high incoming dps missions like Damsel. It murders them in no time.
In short I don't think you can say 'fastest to do missions' unless you stipulate the region you mission in and the missions you do. In Amarr space for instance, where the majority of missions are BS heavySansha/Blood the laser boats (paladin, nightmare etc) are arguably the 'best' ships. I think the RNI just edges it for me, especially as I don't like micro management as my missioning is usually done on a second account. |

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
639
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 00:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Throne of Games wrote:1 Fighter drone will 1 shot a frig with the current patch. I find it difficult that people resist to think heavies aren't capable as well. Finding it difficult to believe that heavies sometimes or even often miss doesn't change the fact that they do.
Even with the misses, they still kill the frigs before you kill the BSes. But that isn't even the point. You can still hold plenty of light drones in the Rattler if you are OCD about it.
|

Gefen Orion
Orion Star Ltd.
17
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 00:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
I have been flying a rattlesnake since 2009. I used to do sentries and missiles. Now its all about the Gecko. The gecko was specially made for the RS, imo, to compensate for losing the bonus to med and light drones.
If I land on grid, and there are frigs 30km or beyond from me, i use bouncers or warden to clear them while i rain scourge furies on BS and BC rats. As soon as the frigs are gone, I recall the bouncers, launch the geckko and start pulsing my MWD to the next gate. However, there are missions where the frigs are really in your face (5km to 15km away), I just launch the gecko, let him do his job and I kill BS and BC. Works out fine for me.
Personally, I dont really blitz or count my completion time. I dont like playing in a hurry state all the time. What I do is count my ISK. So far, I am happy with my RS and the way she brings me ISK consistently.
|

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1221
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 00:41:00 -
[57] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Throne of Games wrote:1 Fighter drone will 1 shot a frig with the current patch. I find it difficult that people resist to think heavies aren't capable as well. Finding it difficult to believe that heavies sometimes or even often miss doesn't change the fact that they do. Even with the misses, they still kill the frigs before you kill the BSes. But that isn't even the point. You can still hold plenty of light drones in the Rattler if you are OCD about it. They do, but the more time I spend on them the longer my super DPS RS isn't actually performing effectively and is losing to any raven-kind missile ship due to lower missile output, worse application compared to the RNI/Golem, and greater potential for loss of DPS due to volley miscounting.
That's kind of the thing making me not like the RS, any time your drones are on frigs your ship is kinda like a T1 raven that can't do EX/EM as well. |

0rch1d
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
20
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 00:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
evomad2 wrote:Similar to other peops here my mission character has all three ships. They all have their applications. I must admit I usually do /lazymode and fly a MJD RNI with extended lock range, max gank and minimal tank. I find it best to MJD away when landing in a room, blap everything, then MJD straight down to the next gate.
This strategy is like a drug. 
I even throw on an AB. |

Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
319
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 01:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
Single best version of L4 ship I know of:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70554-MWD-L4-Rattlesnake-1733-DPS-with-implants.html
If you don't have max or near max skills use the second option because you are not ready.
Slightly cheaper MJD version that is also bad ass:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/70136-Rattlesnake-Kronos-Optimal-L4-Missioner.html
Both will out perform any other L4 mission ship currently in game currently. |
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