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Silenciel
French Kiss Singularity
Astromechanica Federatis
16
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Posted - 2014.06.25 10:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Some numbers (all V) :
DPS
2 stabs T2 + 5 Heavy Neutron Blaster II + Null => 522 DPS on vigilant
2 stabs T2 + 5 Heavy ION Blaster II + Null => 612 DPS on Deimos (with downgraded weapons)
Tank
Damage Control II + Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II + Armor Explosive Hardener II + 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I + Medium Trimark Armor Pump II x2 = 46 534 Hitpoints on Vigilant
Damage Control II + Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II + Armor Explosive Hardener II + 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I + Medium Trimark Armor Pump II = 53 361 Hitpoints on Deimos
And Deimos is higly better with cap regen.
For other modules, both Vigilant and Deimos have the same numbers of slots except for rigs.
Is it normal that a pirate ship is so useless ?
The vigilant Web bonus cost a lot. |
Odithia
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2014.06.25 11:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
If there were no such difference there would be no point at all in using the dimos. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
628
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Posted - 2014.06.25 12:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Never in all my days did I ever think I'd see someone claim the Deimos is better than the Vigilant... and be serious.
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
98
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Posted - 2014.06.25 13:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
First off, your DPS numbers are shot. The Deimos has a maximum damage bonus of 50% (5% per level x 10 levels), the Vigilant has a maximum damage bonus of 75%. I don't know how you got your numbers, but it is impossible for a Deimos to have a higher DPS than a Vigilant assuming all other factors (skills, fitting, etc.) are equal. Also remember that the Vigilant gets it's 75% damage bonus just from boarding the ship. The Deimos doesn't get it's full bonus unless you train the Heavy Assault Cruisers skill all the way to V, which many pilots don't do.
Secondly, you completely overlook mobility. The Vigilant is faster and more agile than the Deimos, not to mention has a better scan resolution for quicker target locks. In a blaster boat, mobility is key. (Incidentally, slapping a 1600mm plate on a blaster boat with a bonus to armor reppers seems like a bad move to me. Active rep that Deimos.)
Lastly, you completely gloss over the web bonus. That bonus is huge. It will utterly immobilize any ship without an aferburner, letting you control transversal and maximizing your DPS. A ship with an afterburner will still be somewhat mobile, but will be unable to speed tank your guns or disengage at will. Never underestimate the power of a web effectiveness bonus. There's a reason they took it away from the Kronos but left it on the Serpentis ships.
Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Silenciel
French Kiss Singularity
Astromechanica Federatis
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 14:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oh yes void/null mistake.
My bad.
Vigilant do 120 more DPS but with less tank.
Not really fantastic. |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
435
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 14:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Silenciel wrote:Oh yes void/null mistake.
My bad.
Vigilant do 120 more DPS but with less tank.
Not really fantastic.
90% Web.
A 90% ******* web. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
826
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 14:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Glad that someone confirmed the DPS discrepancy.
A vigilant at 522 DPS sounded like bull **** to me. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
75
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Posted - 2014.06.25 14:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Do you expect a pirate ship to be better than a similar T2 in every single aspect?
If yes, then change your method of thought so that the answer becomes "no". |
JAF Anders
quantum cats syndicate
Repeat 0ffenders
222
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 17:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Each ship is the best at what it's designed to do. There are no direct upgrades in Eve.
The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts. |
Shpenat
Galactic Exploration and Mining Corporation
The Obsidian Front
70
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Posted - 2014.06.25 17:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:First off, your DPS numbers are shot. The Deimos has a maximum damage bonus of 50% (5% per level x 10 levels), the Vigilant has a maximum damage bonus of 75%. I don't know how you got your numbers, but it is impossible for a Deimos to have a higher DPS than a Vigilant assuming all other factors (skills, fitting, etc.) are equal. Also remember that the Vigilant gets it's 75% damage bonus just from boarding the ship. The Deimos doesn't get it's full bonus unless you train the Heavy Assault Cruisers skill all the way to V, which many pilots don't do.
Secondly, you completely overlook mobility. The Vigilant is faster and more agile than the Deimos, not to mention has a better scan resolution for quicker target locks. In a blaster boat, mobility is key. (Incidentally, slapping a 1600mm plate on a blaster boat with a bonus to armor reppers seems like a bad move to me. Active rep that Deimos.)
Lastly, you completely gloss over the web bonus. That bonus is huge. It will utterly immobilize any ship without an aferburner, letting you control transversal and maximizing your DPS. A ship with an afterburner will still be somewhat mobile, but will be unable to speed tank your guns or disengage at will. Never underestimate the power of a web effectiveness bonus. There's a reason they took it away from the Kronos but left it on the Serpentis ships.
There is slight mistake in your calculation. the bonuses are multiplicative, not additive. so if one gets 25% bonus from one skill and 25% bonus from other skill the final bonus is 1.25*1.25~1.56 (56% bonus).
You are however correct that there is no way for vigilant to have lower dps given the same fitting (75% bonus vs 56% max bonus).
OP can you please edit your first post so it reflects correct dps so people are not confused? |
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
99
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Posted - 2014.06.25 17:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shpenat wrote:There is slight mistake in your calculation. the bonuses are multiplicative, not additive. so if one gets 25% bonus from one skill and 25% bonus from other skill the final bonus is 1.25*1.25~1.56 (56% bonus).
You are however correct that there is no way for vigilant to have lower dps given the same fitting (75% bonus vs 56% max bonus).
OP can you please edit your first post so it reflects correct dps so people are not confused?
So at HAC V, a Deimos will get a +56% damage bonus, but if it had been +10% per level for only one skill instead of 5% per level for two, it'd only be a +50% bonus?
Interesting.... Thanks for the clarification. It's a small difference, but a difference nonetheless.
Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
629
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 18:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
JAF Anders wrote:Each ship is the best at what it's designed to do. There are no direct upgrades in Eve.
Vagabond
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JAF Anders
quantum cats syndicate
Repeat 0ffenders
222
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Posted - 2014.06.25 19:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:JAF Anders wrote:Each ship is the best at what it's designed to do. There are no direct upgrades in Eve. Vagabond
The Stabber has more raw structure hit points than a Vagabond. (1300/980)
The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages
Shadow Cartel
266
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Posted - 2014.06.25 19:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Silenciel wrote:Oh yes void/null mistake.
My bad.
Vigilant do 120 more DPS but with less tank.
Not really fantastic. 90% Web. A 90% ******* web.
How did this thread make it through 5 posts before this came up. Pre-nano nerf web is beast. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
99
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Posted - 2014.06.25 19:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Silenciel wrote:Oh yes void/null mistake.
My bad.
Vigilant do 120 more DPS but with less tank.
Not really fantastic. 90% Web. A 90% ******* web. How did this thread make it through 5 posts before this came up. Pre-nano nerf web is beast.
I mentioned it in the third reply. 
Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages
Shadow Cartel
266
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 19:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Valleria Darkmoon wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Silenciel wrote:Oh yes void/null mistake.
My bad.
Vigilant do 120 more DPS but with less tank.
Not really fantastic. 90% Web. A 90% ******* web. How did this thread make it through 5 posts before this came up. Pre-nano nerf web is beast. I mentioned it in the third reply.
My bad, no TL;DR I guess.
Guess I was just expecting a first response of something like "check your stats again and 90% web. /thread." |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries
Silent Infinity
504
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 19:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:90% Web.
A 90% ******* web.
This. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
99
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 19:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:My bad, no TL;DR I guess.
Guess I was just expecting a first response of something like "check your stats again and 90% web. /thread."
True story.
Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1600
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Posted - 2014.06.25 22:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Valleria Darkmoon wrote: "check your stats again and 90% web. /thread." Good plan.
This thread is now 100% webbed.
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Captain
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