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Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.21 12:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Fan3Spoitoru on 21/06/2006 12:33:05
Well it`s been discused for a long time... and there have been numerous post`s about the folowing problem`s Agility ( the speed is crap and the handeling of the ship is quite like just a rock thrown in space) second is the dps..... It realy sucks and i`m gonna explain why.
Ok all starts with cerberus rember we have the rof bonus there... it`s good.. but u can`t fit more than 1 ballistic on it to be effective so the rof of the cerberus after u do t2 missiles on it. is around 4.5 sec if i rember correctly.
I started training for the nighthawk therefor done all that **** training time... thinking of 2 things: 1 superb tank......  and 2 probably a god dps with a good rof.... ..
I was optimistic
Ok so i`ve done all that is posible...... for that prety ship:
-6 heavy t2 launchers (not faction cose i got maxy skills for them)
-1 medium diminishing.
1 kaikka modified invulnerabilty + 1 specific hardner... im usualy doing level 4 with it... quite easy i must say.. so i only fit a second hardner to boost the main damage of the npc.. 1 gisti shiled booster besct i could find.. and uhmm 1 large shiled extender .....
ANd here come`s PROBLEM NUMBER 3 ....... what to fit: cap recharger t2..... or sensor booster t2....
We got mister tuxford sayng 6 months ago misiles are long range.... use that for long range but the ship can`t lock at start for long range hell it has 60 km standard... with skils goes up to 80 km...
So therefor in pvp i got to have 1 sensor booster t2.... so i can get the long range mister tuxford said it needed... but i only fight with missiles at 10-15 km
I did not wanted to wine about dps at start i thought if i can get the rof low enough i can see it as a good ship cose those volleys do hurt A BIT. like up to 280 damage with maxi skills ( im talking shiled/armor ot hull shots.)
But no... i puted on low 2 power diagnostic t2 and 3 ballistic control computer`s t2 ... i also tried 3 faction one`s but had to give them back was low on my buget.
So the 3 main problems on the nighthawk are:
1) the agility sucks: it take`s increase damage yet it move`s so freacking bad.
2) they said it`s a long range ship cose i quote mister tuxford sayng: ''it`s ment to be used at long range`s'' yet he forget`s to think in his tight mind of his.. the ship is so F** up.
3)The ship needs an overhaull. look at it`s freacking mass.
4) It`s bonuse`s are screwed. it definetly needs a 5% rof per level of command ship onestly  
If anyoane dought`s my skils... well im finishing command ship to level 5 in a 3 days and 6 hours... i wanted to maxi my missile skils before i could start it.
This post was considered by me for a long time. And i invested a lot of testing and and time into this ship.. So mister dev... take a look at that ship and fix it.. this can`t go on anymore! It sucks!
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.06.21 12:35:00 -
[2]
I saw your name, remembered what you said in other topics, Saw kaikka invulnerability field, assumed you were a mission runner. Then assumed you didn't even try it out in PVP, then labeled your whole topic useless.
Whine whine whine, sigs |
Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.21 12:37:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Fan3Spoitoru on 21/06/2006 12:45:42
 Originally by: KilROCK
I saw your name, remembered what you said in other topics, Saw kaikka invulnerability field, assumed you were a mission runner. Then assumed you didn't even try it out in PVP, then labeled your whole topic useless.
ur wrong tried it in pvp 2.... in separate scenarios gatecamping in 0.4 and 0.3 handled well... and at a small fleet skirmish... where after the first scorpion i ended up beeing primary but flown to ss as i was not scrambled..
KILLS: 3 ceptor`s and 1 thorax.... nothing else there felt any damage from me just could not do anything
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.06.21 12:41:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Fan3Spoitoru
Originally by: KilROCK
I saw your name, remembered what you said in other topics, Saw kaikka invulnerability field, assumed you were a mission runner. Then assumed you didn't even try it out in PVP, then labeled your whole topic useless.
ur wrong tried it in pvp 2.... in separate scenarios gatecamping in 0.4 and 0.3 handled well... and at a small fleet skirmish... where after the first scorpion i ended up beeing primary but flown to ss as i was not scrambled..
Thank you for proving my point
Whine whine whine, sigs |
Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.22 09:29:00 -
[5]
.
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
Greyshadow
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Posted - 2006.06.22 09:39:00 -
[6]
I got alittle bit lost, explain why its not a long range ship with heavies?
"Now you see me, now you don't!" |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2006.06.22 11:04:00 -
[7]
Not complaining about my NH, it can pound smaller targets into dust easily with it's boni, just sux a bit against bigger further away targets.
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Al Haquis
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Posted - 2006.06.22 11:17:00 -
[8]
Please compare the range of the Nighthawk and the sleipnir.
Mkay.
With love from Al Haquis.
Btw you hit 100% up to least 80km range with out the sensor booster2 and this sucks in what regard?
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Council Member, Tahiri Warrior
Masuat'aa Forums
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Obmud
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Posted - 2006.06.22 11:27:00 -
[9]
You better delete your account and give me your stuff because your credibility just passed my appartement in an elevator downwards. And i'm living in the basement dude.
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This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Grainsalt
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Posted - 2006.06.22 11:39:00 -
[10]
Ok... first..
Comparing a Nighthawk to a Cerberus is pointless. They have different roles and duties. If you wanted a ship that pounds hard and has lots of shield then that is either the cerb or the Raven.
The Nighthawk when used for it's proper role (taking out frigs, cruisers and bc's) whilst giving bonus's to your gang then it is fine.
If you want solo'pwning then cerb is the way to go my friend.
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For T2 Tinfoil Hats, contact Grainsalt ingame.
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Frakri Hogsto
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Posted - 2006.06.22 11:49:00 -
[11]
look at nighthawk and look at other command ships and you'll see how much nighthawk sux
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merc999
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Posted - 2006.06.22 11:52:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Frakri Hogsto
look at nighthawk and look at other command ships and you'll see how much nighthawk sux
having just watched a well setup Nighthawk tank 3 battleships for ages and ages on the test server.. I humbly suggest that if it is nerfed it deserves it.. that thing just wouldnt die  
Keeping Empire and Syndicate ship builders in business |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.06.22 11:56:00 -
[13]
I thought it's been clearly stated that nothing is happening to the Nighthawk until assault missiles are in-game.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Reeperman
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Posted - 2006.06.22 12:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Frakri Hogsto
look at nighthawk and look at other command ships and you'll see how much nighthawk sux
Looking at the stats and actually flying them is different.. Unless you fly a Nighthawk AND another variant it is a bit pointless saying that.
And anyway if you go that route, if you look at the Amarr or Min ones. You just try hitting a small ship flying close by... You can't.
The main thing the nighthawk needs is an agility bonus, the bonus to hitting smaller ships is actually quite a good one for me. Means you dont need to fit target painters etc for doing level 4's for those pesky inty's and you CAN still bash a NPC BS as quick as you can with your own BS.
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Carebear and proud of it
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Gorgons
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Posted - 2006.06.22 12:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: merc999
having just watched a well setup Nighthawk tank 3 battleships for ages and ages on the test server.. I humbly suggest that if it is nerfed it deserves it.. that thing just wouldnt die
Ehhh.. and so can all the other command ships, I've even seen a sleipnir shieldboost close to 2000 in per cycle.
With the current stats of the nighthawks the dps sucks compared to the other command ships. But as Sarmaul said, I don't think the NH will see any boost before the assault missiles are in, and that's fine by me. I just hope that we'll see them soon(tm), so the dps can get in line witl the other command ships.
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It says Snippy.
E-mail us with any questions. -ReverendM
OMG! what does it say... |
Gorgons
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Posted - 2006.06.22 12:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Reeperman
The main thing the nighthawk needs is an agility bonus, the bonus to hitting smaller ships is actually quite a good one for me. Means you dont need to fit target painters etc for doing level 4's for those pesky inty's and you CAN still bash a NPC BS as quick as you can with your own BS.
Well first off I actually want to use my command ship for pvp, not lvl 4 mission whoring; if I wanted to do mission whoring, I would use the cerberus since it has the higher dps and it's alot more agile.
And getting a bonus for killing frigs/inties on the field command ship sucks just as much as getting a target painter bonus.
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It says Snippy.
E-mail us with any questions. -ReverendM
OMG! what does it say... |
Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.22 13:28:00 -
[17]
if u would have read the post u would have read the fact that it had been used in pvp in quite diferent role`s. the situaion is the folowing all the one`s who flown it realy know the problem`s and issues all the other are just flaming .. like feeling important.. and for that guy who said about my credibiltity.. the point is i dought u even flown a cerberus... so this has came after hours and hours and actualy whole days of testing.. the problem styill exists but i just feel like we are dealing with people who lack vision. It`s suposed to have bigger dps like all other command ship`s commpaired to the hac`s.... this one just hasn`t got it.. So i sugfest u shut up and do calculation`s before posting nonsence! And there was no complain about tanking :) at that it is cool.
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.22 13:29:00 -
[18]
it`s and advance from the cerberus.. this is my answer to the guy who said get a cerberus... it must have all the cerberus has and more.. so next time do a simple little thing read description`s and skill requirment`s bye.
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
Frakri Hogsto
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Posted - 2006.06.22 14:07:00 -
[19]
by looking I mean flying it...
yea, sure it can tank 3 bs's, if you have billions to spsend on implants, and setups
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Grainsalt
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Posted - 2006.06.22 14:09:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Grainsalt on 22/06/2006 14:09:50
Originally by: Fan3Spoitoru
it`s and advance from the cerberus.. this is my answer to the guy who said get a cerberus... it must have all the cerberus has and more.. so next time do a simple little thing read description`s and skill requirment`s bye.
Ok I tried to reading your post above this one and I couldn't make heads nor tails of it, so I will reply to this one.
No it musn't have all the cerberus has and more, it is a different class of ship. Out of the 3 nighthawks I own, I have never decided to use it for anything other than group PvP or mission whoring in the way it was intended, which is as part of a gang, hence why it is a COMMAND ship. And before anyone says it, yes I know what the Vulture is for too.
If YOU read the description of it, you will see that it isn't just designed to be a gank ship, it is more sophisticated than that, maybe the problem is that you don't really want a command ship but a "Gank" ship.
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For T2 Tinfoil Hats, contact Grainsalt ingame.
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Mo Steel
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Posted - 2006.06.22 14:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Grainsalt
Edited by: Grainsalt on 22/06/2006 14:09:50
Originally by: Fan3Spoitoru
it`s and advance from the cerberus.. this is my answer to the guy who said get a cerberus... it must have all the cerberus has and more.. so next time do a simple little thing read description`s and skill requirment`s bye.
Ok I tried to reading your post above this one and I couldn't make heads nor tails of it, so I will reply to this one.
No it musn't have all the cerberus has and more, it is a different class of ship. Out of the 3 nighthawks I own, I have never decided to use it for anything other than group PvP or mission whoring in the way it was intended, which is as part of a gang, hence why it is a COMMAND ship. And before anyone says it, yes I know what the Vulture is for too.
If YOU read the description of it, you will see that it isn't just designed to be a gank ship, it is more sophisticated than that, maybe the problem is that you don't really want a command ship but a "Gank" ship.
So then you're a supporter of nerfing the other command ships down to the Nighthawks level by removing damage bonuses from the other empire's command ships, right?
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Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.22 15:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gorgons
Originally by: merc999
having just watched a well setup Nighthawk tank 3 battleships for ages and ages on the test server.. I humbly suggest that if it is nerfed it deserves it.. that thing just wouldnt die
Ehhh.. and so can all the other command ships, I've even seen a sleipnir shieldboost close to 2000 in per cycle.
With the current stats of the nighthawks the dps sucks compared to the other command ships. But as Sarmaul said, I don't think the NH will see any boost before the assault missiles are in, and that's fine by me. I just hope that we'll see them soon(tm), so the dps can get in line witl the other command ships.
i agree.... but untill than where realy screwed
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.22 15:41:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Grainsalt
Edited by: Grainsalt on 22/06/2006 14:09:50
Originally by: Fan3Spoitoru
it`s and advance from the cerberus.. this is my answer to the guy who said get a cerberus... it must have all the cerberus has and more.. so next time do a simple little thing read description`s and skill requirment`s bye.
Ok I tried to reading your post above this one and I couldn't make heads nor tails of it, so I will reply to this one.
No it musn't have all the cerberus has and more, it is a different class of ship. Out of the 3 nighthawks I own, I have never decided to use it for anything other than group PvP or mission whoring in the way it was intended, which is as part of a gang, hence why it is a COMMAND ship. And before anyone says it, yes I know what the Vulture is for too.
If YOU read the description of it, you will see that it isn't just designed to be a gank ship, it is more sophisticated than that, maybe the problem is that you don't really want a command ship but a "Gank" ship.
u own 3 nighthawk ? lol..... i got a bpo :) trust me ur missing the point here.... the cerberus example was an example!! the point of this whole deal.. it just doesn`t matches the OTHER COMMAND SHIP`s not even one... so i just want the nighthawk in line with THE OTHER COMMAND SHIP`s is that correct english to u??/ THE OTHER COMMAND SHIP`s are better WAY BETTER than the nighthawk!!! THE OTHER COMMAND SHIP`s do more dps and handle way better! THE OTHER COMMAND SHIPS HAD MORE TIME INVESTED IN THEM... curentl`y the dev`s just jerked the nighthawk.. invested no time in it copied some freacking ferox utilities.... and the heavy missiles thing they said they do?? it`s beenn a lot of months by than... i don`t wanna be doing it in one year i will not hury them but like can we at least get an answer?? they screwed up the ship ..... i would like to see at least the wilinges of fixing it.
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.22 15:46:00 -
[24]
THE OTHER COMMAND SHIP`s i just had to reapeat this.. cose i feel like ur already writing some other nonsence... man and with all the gang stuff u said i would probably beat u up hard in nighthawk.. becose yes the implant`s and everythingi invested in one ship but the point is the other players get the same result on their ship`s without investing implant`s and everything.. with moderated skils! If u want to say something just repeat in ur mind THE OTHER COMMAND SHIP`s and shut up for a minute.. thank`s u can neaw talk...
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
Grainsalt
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Posted - 2006.06.22 15:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Grainsalt on 22/06/2006 16:00:57
Ok .. Lets see..
1) Paragraphs are your friend. Please use them.
2) You bought a Nighthawk BPO and didn't investigate the item first? That is a case of too much cash for not enough thought. I know ED209 and Ragnor Black would disagree on you there.
3) Yes I do think the other command ships are overpowered. They are just combat ships, not command ships. Prime example of everyone in eve thinking the next ship should JUST have more firepower. Very shortsighted.
4) Do you really need to write the same stuff over and over again in multiple posts to make yourself sound right? Please..
5) yes I have 3 Nighthawks.. And?
6) Saying that you could whoop me in a fight is just showing your mental age. I couldnt care less how long you think your tackle is, that doesn't support your argument.
7) If you didn't want differing opinions why post a thread on the forums? Do we all have to agree with you? Hmmmmm nope.
Any cogent response would be fine. Can we just have it answered once please rather than ranting.
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For T2 Tinfoil Hats, contact Grainsalt ingame.
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Grainsalt
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Posted - 2006.06.22 16:08:00 -
[26]
Anyway as you so eliquently put it.. Heavy missiles... I think you meant "Assault" missiles here as the new class of missile that is going in.
I really don't think the solution to 1 ship is to add a new class of missiles if it is just for that ship or to "fix" it.
Yes, as far as I am concerned the Nighthawk has it's issues. It hits like a Cerb and can use gang modules becuase it is designed to be in a gang, and YES it doesnt hit as hard as some other Command Ships. But that is down to it being more balanced IMO.. No not perfect balance before you go off ranting again.
Now..
Lower DPS of other Command ships, SLIGHTLY up the damage on Nighthawk and make agility better for all ships in class. THEN make the ship more focused on gang warfare.. e.g. make the vulture have a similar role but with different outcome.
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For T2 Tinfoil Hats, contact Grainsalt ingame.
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Gorgons
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Posted - 2006.06.22 16:43:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Gorgons on 22/06/2006 16:44:43
Originally by: Grainsalt
Anyway as you so eliquently put it.. Heavy missiles... I think you meant "Assault" missiles here as the new class of missile that is going in.
I really don't think the solution to 1 ship is to add a new class of missiles if it is just for that ship or to "fix" it.
The assault missiles/heavy rockets or what they are gonna be named, is not just for one ship, but for an entire ship class. As it is now, the cruiser class ships haven't got a close range high damage missile.
frigs -> rockets = close range, higher dps
standard missiles = longer range, lower dps
cruiser -> NOTHING = close range, higher dps
heavy missiles = longer range, lower damage
battleship -> torps = close range, higher dps
cruise = longer range, lower dps
And if you try to use assault launchers with standard missiles, you end up with a lower dps than with the heavy missiles. This is why we need the assault missiles/heavy rockets which should have been ingame a looong time ago.
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It says Snippy.
E-mail us with any questions. -ReverendM
OMG! what does it say... |
Grainsalt
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Posted - 2006.06.22 17:57:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Grainsalt on 22/06/2006 17:58:45
Originally by: Gorgons
Edited by: Gorgons on 22/06/2006 16:44:43
Originally by: Grainsalt
Anyway as you so eliquently put it.. Heavy missiles... I think you meant "Assault" missiles here as the new class of missile that is going in.
I really don't think the solution to 1 ship is to add a new class of missiles if it is just for that ship or to "fix" it.
The assault missiles/heavy rockets or what they are gonna be named, is not just for one ship, but for an entire ship class. As it is now, the cruiser class ships haven't got a close range high damage missile.
frigs -> rockets = close range, higher dps
standard missiles = longer range, lower dps
cruiser -> NOTHING = close range, higher dps
heavy missiles = longer range, lower damage
battleship -> torps = close range, higher dps
cruise = longer range, lower dps
And if you try to use assault launchers with standard missiles, you end up with a lower dps than with the heavy missiles. This is why we need the assault missiles/heavy rockets which should have been ingame a looong time ago.
Yes exactly what I was saying, it is not for just one ship, and as I was saying to the O.P. it is not the item that will "fix" anything.
The nighthawk is not over broken I.M.H.O. but only slightly nerfed due to the fact that missiles deal damage 99% of the capacity most of the time.
Where as for the damage that we are comparing against in other Command ships would require calculating ACTUAL hit ratio and transversal velocities. Becuase of that reasoning I dont think the nighthawk is far behind at all, only a small way.
I quite like the idea of Assault missiles because as you state there is no close range damage dealer at cruiser level.. AS the O.P. was wanting long range damage this is definitly not the fix and never has been.
I envisaged the assaults to be more for defensive (via offensive move) or ala the gallante with blasters.
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For T2 Tinfoil Hats, contact Grainsalt ingame.
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Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.22 19:19:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Fan3Spoitoru on 22/06/2006 19:23:16
ok... that sounbds acceptable.. we can be reasonable
BUTit`s realy nerfed! not slightly
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
Tr8r
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Posted - 2006.06.22 20:45:00 -
[30]
Actualy i'd like to see you take out a crow with a gistii or any long rng ceptor with a gistii.
Cause the nighthawk is unable to kill them due to the fact they can outrun the slow heavy missiles of the nighthawk!
So your frig killing precision heavy missiles cannot kill a fast frig wooo thankyou ccp
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