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Quazzar	Posted - 2006.06.23 04:54:00 - [1] Should empire gate camps be allowed?? Thats my question after losing a ship to a gate camp with one of my alts. the ship was not the big deal as of the corgo it was carrying. and if it is allowed then are we ever safe? and if not why wouldnt reemberssment be given?? I ask this looking for some simple answers, maybe on some help on the subject..
Telemicus Thrace	Posted - 2006.06.23 05:01:00 - [2] Originally by: Quazzar Should empire gate camps be allowed?? They are allowed as long as the attacking ship is destroyed by Concord. "Should" is an opinion, the only opinion that matters is that of CCP. They have not banned the practice therefore it is allowed. Originally by: Quazzar and if it is allowed then are we ever safe? High security space is safer than low security space but your safety is only absolute when you are docked at a station. The online player guide covers this bit. Originally by: Quazzar and if not why wouldnt reemberssment be given?? From who? Why? Insure your ship. Everything else in it and on it is your responsibility. If you lose it it's your loss, nobody elses. There are plenty of other threads on this subject and most of the early ones contain a lot of tips as to how to avoid geting jumped. Most people ignore them which is whyit is still such a profitable form of piracy. >> RECRUITING <<
SghnDubh	Posted - 2006.06.23 05:24:00 - [3] Quote: and if it is allowed then are we ever safe Why do you have an expectation that you should be "safe"? What doesn't kill you makes you stronger... Fight Smart: www.BattleClinic.com
Samirol	Posted - 2006.06.23 05:57:00 - [4] its not safe space, its safer space ORE MONGERS
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.23 06:28:00 - [5] They should be allowed and are. No re-imbursements. Be more careful next time
Akkarin Pagan	Posted - 2006.06.23 07:08:00 - [6] iirc, Oveur once said, "Nowhere in eve safe, nor should it be." And seeing as he is King of the Devs (or something like that) things are going to stay this way. If you look at it, even stations aren't safe, just look at all the threads where someone bought a Caracal thinking it was a Cerberus! Your ship may be safe, but your wallet isn't :) Akkarin
Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.06.23 07:26:00 - [7] Originally by: SghnDubh Quote: and if it is allowed then are we ever safe Why do you have an expectation that you should be "safe"? Because the tutorial lacks a chapter about suicide gankers, creating the illusion of 100% safe highsec. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Biltic Creen	Posted - 2006.06.23 07:50:00 - [8] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: SghnDubh Quote: and if it is allowed then are we ever safe Why do you have an expectation that you should be "safe"? Because the tutorial lacks a chapter about suicide gankers, creating the illusion of 100% safe highsec. It does not! It tells you "the police may arrive to late". ______________________________ This post is not my personal opinion. It does represent the standpoint of every single eve-player.
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.23 08:39:00 - [9] I think CCP should setup a Wiki to let the players write a new tutorial that covers what you actually need to know in EVE. Covered topics would be suicide ganking, corp war-decs, exactly where space is not safe and what people will do to you there, why everyone will kill you in 0.0 but also how the biggest problems are gateway systems etc. With the accumulated knowledge and writing power of the community, I think we could end threads like this and write a tutorial which explained the deal to new players much better. --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Nexus1972	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:04:00 - [10] To be honest the player guide is a complete pile of toss at the moment - its so out of date its rediculous. I mean they havent updated the factory stuff that changed over 6 months ago. If you are gonna bring new content CCP, please please please update the player guide - my firned started eve and treid following the new players guide and most of the stuff was way out of date and irrelevant. I spent a day explaining stuff like can flagging (not in player guide) and factories/research (in player guide but the old slot based rental system).
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:35:00 - [11] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/06/2006 10:35:47 Gate camping is fine in low sec. In high sec its called suicide. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:42:00 - [12] To the OP. CCP allows griefing, part of that is suicide ganking in high sec empire. CCP also allows those players to exploit by allowing the suicide gankers alt to retrieve the loot from your can while Concord is there picking their nose and letting him steal your loot. That's the way the DEV's want it, so no reimbursement... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:50:00 - [13] * its allowable but they loose their shps that said if its a t2 BPO then 2-3 BS Losses are more than worth the gains
robacz	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Quazzar Should empire gate camps be allowed?? Thats my question after losing a ship to a gate camp with one of my alts. the ship was not the big deal as of the corgo it was carrying. and if it is allowed then are we ever safe? and if not why wouldnt reemberssment be given?? I ask this looking for some simple answers, maybe on some help on the subject.. Its allowed yes, my opinion is that Concord should collect your cargo or at least shoot anyone trying to steal it, but the way it is now, they can kill you, Concord kills them, and their friends collects your cargo. If your cargo is worth of more than price of their lost ships, they made profit. Train Transport ships for carrying something more valuable, or use some ship which will survive longer than industrial. Using instas help too. ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:59:00 - [15] Originally by: robacz Originally by: Quazzar Should empire gate camps be allowed?? Thats my question after losing a ship to a gate camp with one of my alts. the ship was not the big deal as of the corgo it was carrying. and if it is allowed then are we ever safe? and if not why wouldnt reemberssment be given?? I ask this looking for some simple answers, maybe on some help on the subject.. Its allowed yes, my opinion is that Concord should collect your cargo or at least shoot anyone trying to steal it, but the way it is now, they can kill you, Concord kills them, and their friends collects your cargo. If your cargo is worth of more than price of their lost ships, they made profit. Train Transport ships for carrying something more valuable, or use some ship which will survive longer than industrial. Using instas help too. Yep. If you're carrying a multi-billion dollar item like a T2 BPO, you need to do it in a tanked BS, or something similar to withstand the punishment from the attacker while Concord finishes their doughnuts and comes to help... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:01:00 - [16] It is allowed. Should be allowed. Must be allowed. Will always be allowed. It is a form of profession in EvE. People call it mugging. Getting mugged in empire space is like hitting a lottery. You dont get mugged every day unless you walk into dark alleys i.e. low secs. HTH. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:09:00 - [17] Edited by: Bhaal on 23/06/2006 11:10:38 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire It is allowed. Should be allowed. Must be allowed. Will always be allowed. It is a form of profession in EvE. People call it mugging. Getting mugged in empire space is like hitting a lottery. You dont get mugged every day unless you walk into dark alleys i.e. low secs. HTH. In very high sec systems, the police should not allow an alt to get away with the victims stuff... This type of PvP should not happen in 0.7 to 1.0 IMO. You can still have suicide ganking if you want (If you want to destroy a competitor's T2 BPO for example, or mining barge, etc), but no way should Concord let the loot be stolen. The loot can needs to be tagged for impoundment where no one can pick it up. The dumbass victim would pay Concord a fee to retrieve the loot. (For being a dumbass for losing it in the first place) ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Jenny Spitfire It is allowed. Should be allowed. Must be allowed. Will always be allowed. It is a form of profession in EvE. People call it mugging. Getting mugged in empire space is like hitting a lottery. You dont get mugged every day unless you walk into dark alleys i.e. low secs. HTH. In very high sec systems, the police should not allow an alt to get away with the victims stuff... This type of PvP should not happen in 0.7 to 1.0 IMO. You can still have suicide ganking if you want (If you want to destroy a competitor's T2 BPO), but no way should Concord let the loot be stolen. The loot can needs to be tagged for impoundment where no one can pick it up. The dumbass victim would pay Concord a fee to retrieve the loot. (For being a dumbass for losing it in the first place) Hard to enforce players not to get away with victims stuffs. Best Concord can do is to void insurance of high sec criminal activities. Players using friends/alts to haul stuffs are like RL muggers. They mugged ppl's handbags, throw to their lackeys and law officers chase decoys. Handbag is already gone miles away. Same thing with subway pick-pockettings. I dont like it but I think system is fine. Some weekend pirates need to make a living. Beats NPCing for hours. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Jenny Spitfire It is allowed. Should be allowed. Must be allowed. Will always be allowed. It is a form of profession in EvE. People call it mugging. Getting mugged in empire space is like hitting a lottery. You dont get mugged every day unless you walk into dark alleys i.e. low secs. HTH. In very high sec systems, the police should not allow an alt to get away with the victims stuff... This type of PvP should not happen in 0.7 to 1.0 IMO. You can still have suicide ganking if you want (If you want to destroy a competitor's T2 BPO), but no way should Concord let the loot be stolen. The loot can needs to be tagged for impoundment where no one can pick it up. The dumbass victim would pay Concord a fee to retrieve the loot. (For being a dumbass for losing it in the first place) Hard to enforce players not to get away with victims stuffs. Best Concord can do is to void insurance of high sec criminal activities. Players using friends/alts to haul stuffs are like RL muggers. They mugged ppl's handbags, throw to their lackeys and law officers chase decoys. Handbag is already gone miles away. Same thing with subway pick-pockettings. I dont like it but I think system is fine. Some weekend pirates need to make a living. Beats NPCing for hours. Just code the game: If there are no kill rights, or war declaration, high sec loot can is picked up by concord, and impounded, no loot can to pick up for the mugger's alt. It's simply ludicrous that the muggers alt can take the stuff in plain view of Concord, and get away scott free... Weekend pirates can operate in 0.4-0.1 space where they are allowed to do so. ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:25:00 - [20] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/06/2006 11:26:27 I think its a decent idea that loot should be taken by concord, yeah. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:28:00 - [21] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/06/2006 11:29:26 Originally by: Bhaal Just code the game: If there are no kill rights, or war declaration, high sec loot can is picked up by concord, and impounded, no loot can to pick up for the mugger's alt. It's simply ludicrous that the muggers alt can take the stuff in plain view of Concord, and get away scott free... Weekend pirates can operate in 0.4-0.1 space where they are allowed to do so. I think a better way to do this in empire is like this. If player gets killed in high secs, loot can is tagged to player corp or player. Killer gets Concorded and insurance is void. If loot can gets looted not by members of player corp or player, looter gets criminal flagged. Loot can is flagged for 15 mins before it surrenders ownership. Anyone nearby or corp mates can help do citizens arrest by killing the criminally flagged looter. If nobody is around then too bad, I guess. The idea is based for a player driven system i.e. sandbox system. I personally think Concord should not interfere with impounding items. /methinks part of making EvE fun is looting. Opening a loot can is like unwrapping a Christmas pressie. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:28:00 - [22] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/06/2006 11:29:26 Originally by: Bhaal Just code the game: If there are no kill rights, or war declaration, high sec loot can is picked up by concord, and impounded, no loot can to pick up for the mugger's alt. It's simply ludicrous that the muggers alt can take the stuff in plain view of Concord, and get away scott free... Weekend pirates can operate in 0.4-0.1 space where they are allowed to do so. I think a better way to do this in empire is like this. If player gets killed in high secs, loot can is tagged to player corp or player. Killer gets Concorded and insurance is void. If loot can gets looted not by members of player corp or player, looter gets criminal flagged. Loot can is flagged for 15 mins before it surrenders ownership. Anyone nearby or corp mates can help do citizens arrest by killing the criminally flagged looter. If nobody is around then too bad, I guess. The idea is based for a player driven system i.e. sandbox system. I personally think Concord should not interfere with impounding items. /methinks part of making EvE fun is looting. Opening a loot can is like unwrapping a Christmas pressie. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:30:00 - [23] EVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums \| 203
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:30:00 - [24] I'm against this. I'm sorry but Jita just wouldn't be Jita if I flew in there and someone wasn't suicide ganking a foolishly loaded industrial ship. --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/06/2006 11:29:26 Originally by: Bhaal Just code the game: If there are no kill rights, or war declaration, high sec loot can is picked up by concord, and impounded, no loot can to pick up for the mugger's alt. It's simply ludicrous that the muggers alt can take the stuff in plain view of Concord, and get away scott free... Weekend pirates can operate in 0.4-0.1 space where they are allowed to do so. I think a better way to do this in empire is like this. If player gets killed in high secs, loot can is tagged to player corp or player. Killer gets Concorded and insurance is void. If loot can gets looted not by members of player corp or player, looter gets criminal flagged. Loot can is flagged for 15 mins before it surrenders ownership. Anyone nearby or corp mates can help do citizens arrest by killing the criminally flagged looter. If nobody is around then too bad, I guess. The idea is based for a player driven system i.e. sandbox system. I personally think Concord should not interfere with impounding items. /methinks part of making EvE fun is looting. Opening a loot can is like unwrapping a Christmas pressie. Being able to steal the victims loot in front of Concord's face needs to be coded out of the game. Just like being able to kill in high sec and get away from Concord was coded out... If it's an exploit to kill someone in high-sec and get away from Concord, it's certainly an exploit to get away from Concord with the victims loot as the muggers alt... Players should not have to form posies, etc to make up for bad game mechanics... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Bhaal Being able to steal the victims loot in front of Concord's face needs to be coded out of the game. Just like being able to kill in high sec and get away from Concord was coded out... If it's an exploit to kill someone in high-sec and get away from Concord, it's certainly an exploit to get away from Concord with the victims loot as the muggers alt... Players should not have to form posies, etc to make up for bad game mechanics... Might as well remove locking abilities on neutral players and non-war targets in high secs. Best solution. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Bhaal Being able to steal the victims loot in front of Concord's face needs to be coded out of the game. Just like being able to kill in high sec and get away from Concord was coded out... If it's an exploit to kill someone in high-sec and get away from Concord, it's certainly an exploit to get away from Concord with the victims loot as the muggers alt... Players should not have to form posies, etc to make up for bad game mechanics... Might as well remove locking abilities on neutral players and non-war targets in high secs. Best solution. Nope, you still want ppl to be able to suicide kill (if you want to try to destroy a competitior's goods), just not steal in front of the cops... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:46:00 - [28] Originally by: Bhaal Nope, you still want ppl to be able to suicide kill (if you want to try to destroy a competitior's goods), just not steal in front of the cops... OK, me is confused now. How are you going to destroy/maximise damage on competitors if their stuffs get impounded? You just destroy what have been destroyed but cant "destroy/loot" the victim further because stuffs are taken by Concord? If 100% stuffs survived, then purpose of suiciding is defeated isnt it? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:55:00 - [29] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Bhaal Nope, you still want ppl to be able to suicide kill (if you want to try to destroy a competitior's goods), just not steal in front of the cops... OK, me is confused now. How are you going to destroy/maximise damage on competitors if their stuffs get impounded? You just destroy what have been destroyed but cant "destroy/loot" the victim further because stuffs are taken by Concord? If 100% stuffs survived, then purpose of suiciding is defeated isnt it? Some stuff gets destroyed, you take a chance... The player can still lose the T2 BPO, but the muggers alt does not get it... IE, the mugger does not profit, but he can still inflict financial damage on the victim. Say I build Cov-Ops cloaking devices, and I have a competitor I hate. If I see him carrying his BPO in a shuttle in Jita, I can kill him and try to destroy the BPO. The BPO may or may not be destroyed in the attack. So I risk my ship for a chance to destroy his BPO. If the BPO is not destroyed, the victim has to pay Concord a fee for providing him a service of impounding it and protecting it from being stolen... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:57:00 - [30] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Bhaal Nope, you still want ppl to be able to suicide kill (if you want to try to destroy a competitior's goods), just not steal in front of the cops... OK, me is confused now. How are you going to destroy/maximise damage on competitors if their stuffs get impounded? You just destroy what have been destroyed but cant "destroy/loot" the victim further because stuffs are taken by Concord? If 100% stuffs survived, then purpose of suiciding is defeated isnt it? Some stuff gets destroyed, you take a chance... The player can still lose the T2 BPO, but the muggers alt does not get it... IE, the mugger does not profit, but he can still inflict financial damage on the victim. Say I build Cov-Ops cloaking devices, and I have a competitor I hate. If I see him carrying his BPO in a shuttle in Jita, I can kill him and try to destroy the BPO. The BPO may or may not be destroyed in the attack. So I risk my ship for a chance to destroy his BPO. If the BPO is not destroyed, the victim has to pay Concord a fee for providing him a service of impounding it and protecting it from being stolen... But economically, I could use another BPO to control and influence the market if I can choose to mug and loot. For me, I think Concord should not be involved in impounding. If somebody steals illegally from an illegal kill, the person should be tagged free for all. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!

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