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ChronoLynx
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Posted - 2006.06.24 02:42:00 -
[1]
Stealth Bombers and the Issue
Description of the Stealth Bomber
Specifically engineered to fire cruise missiles, stealth bombers represent the next generation in covert ops craft. Advanced techniques in spatial distortion technology enable them to potentially fly faster when cloaked than when uncloaked - a fact which, coupled with their considerable firepower, makes them extremely dangerous in the hands of an accomplished pilot.
I am an accomplished pilot and the Stealth Bomber is not extremely dangerous. Here are the issues with the Stealth Bombers.
1.PowerGrid of the Manticore
When you have Covert Ops to LvL 5 and Adv. Weapon Upgrades to LvL 5 the PowerGrid usage of each Launcher is 15.5098125 MWs. That is 46.5294375 MWs for 3 launchers which is impossible to fit without sticking at least one æMicro Auxiliary Unit.Æ
(This is using the bonusÆs that are stated on the Manticore which btw is wrong)
With Covert Ops to LvL 4 and Adv. Weapon Upgrades to LvL 5 the PowerGrid usage of each launcher is actually 11.58066 MWs. That is 34.74198 MWs for 3 launchers which is 2.75802 MWs from maxing out the power grid, but add in a æCloaking DeviceÆ and you are now just 1.75802 MWs from maxing it out. This means the MidSlots of the Manticore cannot be properly fitted without at least one æMicro Auxiliary Unit.Æ
2.PowerGrid of the Nemesis
With the Adv. Weapon Upgrades to LvL 5 the PowerGrid usage of each launcher on the Nemesis is 20.67975. With two of them on the Nemesis the remaining PowerGrid of the Nemesis is only 2.3905 and with a æCloaking DeviceÆ the remaining PowerGrid of the Nemesis is only 1.3905 meaning you have to fit at least one module to add more PowerGrid to this Bomber.
3.Problems for the Hound and Purifier
I know that the Hound and Purifier have their own issues as well but as I have not had the time to fully test the Hound or train for the Purifier I will not point out their problems.
4.Damage Output
I know from my time of testing that the damage output of the Nemesis is too low. I found that in almost all circumstances that I was unable to destroy a target before it warped out. I am 100% positive that the Hound and Purifier have the same problems. The Manticore on the other hand has the damage output to kill the same ships that I had tested on before they warped out. The bonus to damage for all the bombers needs to be adjusted.
Possible Solutions to the issue
1.Increase the PowerGrid of all the Stealth Bombers by 25% and/or increase the PowerGrid reduction bonus by 100% meaning that the PowerGrid usage of the stealth bomberÆs cruise launchers should be half of what it is now.
2.There are two ways to fix the damage output of the Stealth Bombers in one of two ways.
A.Add an extra HighSlot and Launcher Hard-Point to all the Bombers to closer match their tech one variants.
B.Change the Bombers Damage Bonus to 20%/10% per level for the Races Damage and 10%/5% per level to all other damage types to follow a similar pattern to their tech one variants.
These are the ideas of an accomplished pilot on how to fix all the Stealth Bombing Frigates. Please Sign this if you agree with my Petition.
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Lord Seth
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Posted - 2006.06.24 02:44:00 -
[2]
 Signed F-OFF
Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected]) |
Zhon
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Posted - 2006.06.24 02:44:00 -
[3]
/Signed
---------
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Kojee
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Posted - 2006.06.24 02:44:00 -
[4]
h3llz y34h. Signed.
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Teague
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Posted - 2006.06.24 02:47:00 -
[5]
/me signs
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Namelesz
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Posted - 2006.06.24 03:31:00 -
[6]
I have mainly flown a Manticore when it comes to stealth bombers, and I happen to have Covert Ops to lvl5 and Adv Weapon Upgrades to lvl5 as well. I am able to fit 3 Cruise Launchers, a cloak and other modules (not including any propulsion or repair mods) and do not fit any grid increasing mods. In fact, I fit that before I had Adv Weap Upgrades to 5, I believe it was at 4.
BUT, I know for a fact the Manticore is lacking capacitor, badly. Dont try to make any warps that are greater than 50au or so. You will slow down an entire fleet as they wait for you to make 2,3,4 jumps when everyone else went it in one go.
Well tbh, that is more a problem with a few other Caldari ships, but that is another thread altogether. . . .
I have flown a Nemesis and a Hound as well, but not as much as the Manticore's 3 launchers are much more attractive. But I kinda remember the Nemesis not warping far just like the Manticore but the Hound did make some jumps the others couldnt.
"notify: Only ships can be assembled, this is a Elite Frigate." |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.06.24 03:52:00 -
[7]
actually the only gripes that I have with the bombers, besides the stupidly tiny grid (I /sign on that part) on them is the realy short warp range and the fact that they are not bombers at all.
make them use torps and give them a bit more survivability and you have a true anti-big ship ship.
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 Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.06.24 03:53:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 24/06/2006 03:53:34
No. The Hound can do MORE damage than the manticore, for starters.
Second, boosting bombers encourages unfun gank gameplay.
Grimpack, how about a LOT more survivability (AF-style) and heavy rockets?
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.06.24 03:55:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 24/06/2006 03:53:34
No. The Hound can do MORE damage than the manticore, for starters.
Second, boosting bombers encourages unfun gank gameplay.
Grimpack, how about a LOT more survivability (AF-style) and heavy rockets?
how about a tiny bit more survivability and launchers that carry 1 citadel torp each?
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Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Merin Ryskin
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Posted - 2006.06.24 04:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 24/06/2006 03:53:34Second, boosting bombers encourages unfun gank gameplay.
Right, I'm sure the only thing keeping bomber gank squads from getting out of control is the need to use a MAPC, or take multiple jumps to cross a system...
Quote:
Grimpack, how about a LOT more survivability (AF-style) and heavy rockets?
And yep, right on schedule with your unwanted idea. Now just get out of this thread, since the point of discussion is MINOR changes to the ship, not a complete redesign.
===============================
Anyway, /SIGNED. There is simply no reason not to give them a little better powergrid/CPU, especially when the fitting issues are apparently the result of an old battleship rebalance which caused unforseen splash damage on bombers.
Giving more cap probably isn't a good idea, we don't want sustained tanking capability on the ship. The better solution to warp range would be slashing the mass of the ships considerably. This of course has the nice side effect of improving their sluggish handling.
An extra launcher hardpoint (and grid/CPU to fit it) or more damage would be nice, but not as essential. I'd rather have the covert ops cloak, if we're going for a major boost.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.06.24 04:00:00 -
[11]
*pulls open the utility locker*
Hm, known I have a flamethrower in here somewhere...
 
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FraXy
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Posted - 2006.06.24 04:15:00 -
[12]
IMO Bombers need a complete redesign because when an interceptor which is what i personally think the ship is supposed to be able to kill is orbiting at greater speed i think i tested at 2900 m/s or something the cruise missiles hit for jack damage, utter crap.
They are gang ships and is not meant to be solo cloaking pwnmobiles, but there is too many goddamn anti-frigate platforms out there!!
Give them more HP maybe like an interceptor or inbetween interceptor and assault frigate with less resist then the assault frigates just like Fleet Command and Field Command BC.
And most important change that would be better if the bonus would be changed from Cruise to Torpedo so they would be cloaking anti-BS platforms instead.
This is my lazy attempt to make
an uber-signature, please go away!
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Wolf Cry
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Posted - 2006.06.24 04:16:00 -
[13]
/Signed 
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Gray Carmicheal
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Posted - 2006.06.24 04:44:00 -
[14]
I'd love to see them get into the Torp catagory for fast(er) BS popping for sure.
A little more PG or a 100% reduction bonus = win.
Now, my simple off-topic question... How do you guys manage to ever catch anything not afk. Anytime I uncloak around something, by the time I lock it, it's warping off. :(
My sig was CONCORDOKKENED. I blame Wrangler H4x. |
RedGoatee
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Posted - 2006.06.24 06:27:00 -
[15]
/ signed
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ChronoLynx
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Posted - 2006.06.24 06:27:00 -
[16]
Best way to get someone in a stealthbomber at a gate is to uncloak as soon as it goes active, turn on the booster and fire, hopefully you pop them before they warp. I can normally do this in a Manticore but in a Nemesis I might as well stick 2 standard launchers and call it a Tristan with 1less PWG.
Elitest Carebear with Fangs and Claws |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.24 06:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 24/06/2006 03:53:34
No. The Hound can do MORE damage than the manticore, for starters.
Second, boosting bombers encourages unfun gank gameplay.
Grimpack, how about a LOT more survivability (AF-style) and heavy rockets?
How about we just delete AFs while we're at it?
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Gray Carmicheal
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Posted - 2006.06.24 07:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: ChronoLynx
Best way to get someone in a stealthbomber at a gate is to uncloak as soon as it goes active, turn on the booster and fire, hopefully you pop them before they warp. I can normally do this in a Manticore but in a Nemesis I might as well stick 2 standard launchers and call it a Tristan with 1less PWG.
Ahhhh, I was wondering how to actually be effective at things like that or tackling in a cloaker (my term for covops).
My sig was CONCORDOKKENED. I blame Wrangler H4x. |
Fan3Spoitoru
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Posted - 2006.06.24 12:03:00 -
[19]
signed
STAND AND DELIVER!!! |
Uggster
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Posted - 2006.06.24 12:15:00 -
[20]
Signed 
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Cochise
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Posted - 2006.06.24 12:16:00 -
[21]
Signed!
Good Post!
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Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2006.06.24 12:45:00 -
[22]
/signed
PLEASE, do somethign about the poor, poor Nemesis, the crappiest ship in existance.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes |
cytomatrix
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Posted - 2006.06.24 13:54:00 -
[23]
/signed
Please fix all the bombers.
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Matrices Reborn
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Posted - 2006.06.24 14:11:00 -
[24]
/signed
I would like to see what real potential this class of ships has but right now they seem useless or fill a very small niche.
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korrey
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Posted - 2006.06.24 14:14:00 -
[25]
figure you could make Stealth Bombers as a cruiser class ship. Mainly to fix the problem with interceptors killing you. But then again there are too many cruiser platforms.
/Signed. Fix the Purifier.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.06.24 14:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Giving more cap probably isn't a good idea, we don't want sustained tanking capability on the ship. The better solution to warp range would be slashing the mass of the ships considerably. This of course has the nice side effect of improving their sluggish handling.
how come? the ship already has the HP of a pod. giving more cap is not gonna improve that.
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Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2006.06.24 20:48:00 -
[27]
T2 ships should be able to fit tech 2 mods with good skills.
/signed
 Caveat: Stealth bombers need more help. Let them warp while cloaked. Give them some resists. Redesign them completely and make them similar to what Maya suggests. Redesign them to fire rage torps with no penalties. Whatever is done, SOMETHING needs to change as of now they really aren't good at attacking BS and either completely gank frigates (lame) or are unable to do anything to them at all (lame).
In any case, they need some love.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.06.24 20:52:00 -
[28]
Lol, funny but... signing a topic means nothing 
Whine whine whine, sigs |
Akiman
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Posted - 2006.06.24 20:57:00 -
[29]
manticore is overpowered ofc if u compare with other stealth bombers.Give cool bonuses to other 2 missile sloted SBs or more low or med slots for tanking...or give more pg to them imo.
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Xtro 2
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Posted - 2006.06.24 22:29:00 -
[30]
to the OP, his point about requiring micro aux and adv weapons upd 4/5, is not realistic, i only have adv weapons upg 1, nothing else i need even comes close to maxxing my pgrid, i always come up short on cpu if ever.
The bombers are all fine as is, granted they have limited roles, but their roles non the less, they require no "tweaking".
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically stemming from a form of mental illness. |
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