i agree we should have more dynamic connections both from wormhole to another wormhole but would be great if more connections from k-space to wormhole and vice versa.

well theres problem with flux generator upgrade it does not generate wormholes at all in upgraded nullsec systems it should be looked into and to be fixed.

Beating a dead horse here, but for the love of raptor space jesus:

ALLIANCE BOOKMARKS.

Hopefully this might make it in when CCP revamps alliance/corp mechanics.

Alliance bookmarks.

Simple fix: 10 corp divisions instead of 6?

some things:

- revisit c1 and c2 site loot and salvage. seems too low for the effort and risk involved and c2 sites often pay less than those in c1.

Making spotting wormholes based on the sig easier so it's faster to chain-out.
******* gas and data sites clogging up mah beautiful scans T.T

It attually does work it just doesn't work how 99% of people think and so people assume its broken. Its not ideal though I will say that

but add some new subsystems, a logistic subsystem, and a mass reduction subsystem (probably a navigation one) then use this as a blueprint for adding new T3s, i.e. frigate and battleship (a t3 frigate that could be a command ship for frigate roams would be particularly nice to have)

Thank you for the Initiative Corbexx.

My "little things list".

1) Remove ore sites from the known signatures and make people probe them out (this was a silly change to wh space).

2) The personal ship maintenance array needs to be created/released. This goes along with the fixing of pos roles but this one is a biggie for alot of corporations.

3) Someone mentioned it before. Split the Dscan and probe window into two separate detachable windows.

4) Add ice to wormhole space. Will people strip ice in wormholes, I don't know, but give them the option to do so if they so want to.

5) Remove sleepers from C1 through C3 relic/data sites. If a person daytrips in a covops and scans one down, let them do it without having to bring a combat ship (this one is optional, some people like the sleeper loot).

6) Ability to build pos modules in a pos

7) Ability to assemble a T3 in a pos.

8) Allow us to create auto delete bookmarks (when creating a bookmark, add a checkmark box saying "Temporary bookmark". It auto deletes itself after 72 hours (3 days). Can make it a dropdown list also (duration, 12, 24, 48, 72 hours). With that, set a role where a corp person can only set corporation bookmarks that are temporary, and cannot delete any.

[quote=Lloyd Roses]

@Corbex if you want to test farming in a C2 or subcap farming of C5s in a static under real conditions contact me.

No specific idea. Just a word of caution. There are several ideas in here that will make it much easier for larger folks to wonk up on smaller groups. If WH changes are to benifit one group over the other (larger vs smaller in this case) I would hope the CSM and CCP can see the wisdom in leaning toward aiding the smaller groups. If I recall correctly, the point of WH space is to avoid blobs and large meta hoo haw. (me definition of small gang is less than 20 - not less than 100)

It seems there is an influx of prior null guys (which is great !- more guys are better), but with it there is also an increased desire to make WH space more nullish. I would hope we can resist changes that will over time creep WH space from it's roots.

Sometimes small changes have large results - please be careful.

Simple little thing:

Disregard any comment that is directly PvP beneficial with no thought to pve players (and vice versa)

E.g. more statics / removing discovery scanner / forcing wh openings (cannot close off system)

Im fairly certain that flux generator does establish more incoming connections, but they are k162 incoming, therefore they must be opened from the other side to appear in your null. So, potential wormholes are there, but to activate you need dudes on the other side. Which, obviously, makes it useless.

The list is probably for when corbexx is in Iceland and what happens there is NDA until the minutes.

I believe more people are concerned about the discovery scanner and wormholes instantly showing up without having to drop probes.

Its a timeframe concern though, as CCP can easily say (well look into it) then completely forget about it as nobody is assigned to handling wormholes at all.

Offgrid spawns: Occasionally one of the C4 Data or Relic sites spawns Sleepers off-grid. Sorry I can't remember which one exactly it is. I don't know if this is fixed or I just haven't seen it in a while.

How bout the ability to move more then 5 bookmarks at a time, even if its just 10 it would be a nice timer saver.

Enhance the danger / risk ration.

C1 Actually good isk for a small corp.
C2 Terrible sleeper loot, but nice access to HS
C3 Good isk for small corp.
C4 Pointless
C5 Excessive ISK
C6 Excessive ISK

If you're using Tengus
Pro-tip for C4s: Warp Frontier Barracks at 100km, you'll either land within missile range or far enough out that you have to burn only a few km to warp-in or you can warp-in immediately.

Also, in C4s don't run anything but Sleeper Information Sanctums and Frontier Barracks. The rest are pretty ****** isk/hr

Sorry Corbexx, don't have numbers to back this up, this is just experience from living in C4s for a while.

All of this is good except removing the sleepers from the gas/ore sites in C1-C3, gas in particular. That group of systems will spawn all gas sites except the C5/C6 Core sites with C320 and C540. The rest of the gas is already less profitable to harvest than it is to go ice mining, and removing sleepers would make it even more so.

I'm not sure how the dynamic would change if you removed sleeper spawns from ore sites, though I know Nullbears would throw a royal tantrum, so it's not likely to happen anyway.


There appear to be two main viewpoints of W-space. One is that you're progressing deeper into the unknown as you move from C1 to C6. You have an interconnected web of systems leading across unknown space with K-space connectivity an incidental, not essential, feature. The focal point-of-view is W-space; W-space is the origin, W-space is the destination, W-space is the purpose. Most players who live in W-space seem to hold this viewpoint based on conversation and posts.

The database itself which separates out W-space into its own universe would tend to support this W-space centric point of view as well. You have K-space, you have W-space, and you have random and varying connections between the two.

The other viewpoint is that they're all somewhat equally accessible (except C4) from K-space, though some have harder (PvE) content than others. W-space systems are not necessarily much more than exploration sites you can find in K-space, though harder and more dangerous. The focal point-of-view is K-space; W-space is a temporary diversion from K-space. CCP, particularly in recent discussion around C4 ideas with consideration to adding K-space connections to C4, seemed to hold this point of view. I asked, but they would not clarify their purpose and goals for W-space.


What they do to W-space depends greatly on their point of view of what W-space is and how it is to be approached.


Personally, I'd like to see the first concept more fully realized:

- C1 and C2 would basically be unchanged, though C2 would lose C5 and C6 statics.
- C3 would remain similar, though increased wormhole mass allowances to permit freighter traffic.
- C4 would gain a second static: one static for C1-C3 space, and one static for C5-C6 space. Freighter traffic permitted.
- C5 and C6 would have fewer K-space connections, and lose direct connectivity to C1-C3.

Then introduce short-lived, random wormholes, some large and some small, that could connect any W-space system to any other W-space system, C1 through C6.


After that, new regions of space could be added to the game that use W-space as the transit between current K-space universe and the new K-space universe. You could, for example, create a constellation-centric universe (as opposed to the system-centric universe of W-space) where you build a mini-empire throughout the entire constellation, cynos work within the constellation, stargates could be constructed between systems within the constellation, etc. You would travel through wormholes (sometimes into W-space) to travel between constellations. It could be similar to Nullsec except you can only project power within your own constellation, allowing small groups to build an empire where it is impossible now in Nullsec without kissing someone's pinky ring.

C6 and maybe C5 systems could be the connecting systems to this new region of space. It's not quite C7, it's not quite Nullsec, and it's not quite W-space. Needless to say it is also not like Hisec, though I suspect you'd still have to pay silly industry taxes out there.

^ Maybe it would be more of a natural progression if C4 wormholes had 1 k space and one WH static...

Corbex, after we get the 5 or so legitimate "little things" implemented from this thread, how likely do you think we are to see some new developer created content for wormhole space in the next 12 months?

POD express
The pod express to HS makes many people risk averse. You cannot afford not to have key players in your WH if **** hits the fan! Introducing a structure (something as bulky as a XL SMA) or ship (roqual) that allows you to activate a new clone if it died in the same system (J-number) would mitigate this. In case of an eviction this would give the defender an advantage.

POD express
Capital escalations is twofold bad game design
1. Capital escalations hamper meaningful player interaction by promoting a GÇ£closed doors modeGÇ¥ with only a small risk of interacting with others. Remove/modify them and give groups more incentive to steal their neighbors sites. This has so many advantages I have no clue anyone interested in PvP wants these capital escalations except farmers:

- play the game of mass with hard knox while they run sites in their static. Yea get to fight a group you could not touch on their home turf.
- Farmers GǪ well they stay farmers but they wont be that space rich anymore.
- Tiericide of w-space: WHs are much more defined by their statics. That is where you make your living!
- Double the chance of K162s. Neighbors logs in and do silly stuff.
- More ppl involved. You want to have scouts in home and neighboring system.

2. Also capital escalations allows groups to grow in quantity and quality of players that forbids meaningful interaction with many groups that donGÇÖt exploit the same mechanic.

Very simple calculation: 1 site spawning per day (more if you have alts despawning them in your region) *4 (you run em on 4 days)*7 (for a week)*800 mil (that is what you get for a full cap escalation) = 22 bil/week GǪ this is why we cannot have good fights with c3 guys that run their home sites.

Very simple calculation: 1 site spawning per day (more if you have alts despawning them in your region) *4 (you run em on 4 days)*7 (for a week)*800 mil (that is what you get for a full cap escalation) = 22 bil/week GǪ this is why we cannot have good fights with c3 guys that run their home sites.

The PoD express is something our prophet came up with. TBH escalations as conflict drivers makes not much sense to me. Enough free w-space. Boring for everyone involved. Rather fight over sites and expose a ratting fleet outside home fortress.




Been a while since i have been in C6 space:

You get roughly 1 new site spawn per day.
You run all sites (including the newly spawned) for 4 days
Each time you run a site it pays you something like 800 mil
So all these factors stack multiplicative:

1*7*4*800mil = 28 capital escalations per week = 22.4 bil/week

Not sure if 800 mil is right but then you clear em on your 4th day for a slightly better payout.

You might have misunderstood me or have a very different perspective on what is good for w-space than I do. Let me get this straight: I am not for starving the big groups to death but I think we need a new paradigm that focuses on interesting gameplay more than conserving an arbitrary status quo. Both my suggestions trend towards this.

This makes no sense to me.
We are not talking about income for an ally but income for one WH for doing home sites exclusively. And if you say it is not much what are you comparing it to? PL rent income or a C3 WH group doing exactly the same (running their home sites)? You did some testing on income, you can do the math.

And since when does the income of an activity in eve scale linear with the value of assets needed to do this? And please donGÇÖt pull the siege/triage = risk card. We all know that 95% of groups that spot such a fleet cannot attack it whereas everyone jumps on a Tengu that is tackled by sleepers.

If you donGÇÖt see a problem with a two orders in magnitude higher income for doing exactly the same thing (ratting in home) I donGÇÖt know what to say or I have to assume you are cool with there being no meaningful/interesting interactions between those two groups.

Besides all this carebear-talk: The problem with WH space is not the income it is the lack of opportunities to lose ISK. Balancing the income side between different classes/activities can only achieve anything if interesting gameplay emerges from this. Why is C5+ space so dull that they fight in null? Why do people only log in for pings?

And since you donGÇÖt want to touch it (I would not want to mess with my peer group either) I have to point my finger towards capital escalations and the bad they do. Out of Proportion compared to anything else in eve.


Now read my initial post again and call me terrible if you still wish so or come up with a better solution (and I am sure there are some).

Balancing the income side between different classes/activities can only achieve anything if interesting gameplay emerges from this

This could be fixed by increasing demand for sleeper salvage, ie. adding new things to build from it. And not necessarily only T3 frigs or BSs - could be T3 modules, rigs, ammo or even some special structures/deployables. Making salvage worth more would help low-class and non-escalating wormholers disproportionately more than C5/6 capital farmers (as those mostly rely on blue loot).

I do like where your thought process heads on this and i have no concerns i wouldn't like any idea to do with T3 products but as you are a large T3 sub/ship builder doesn't that go to conflict of interest almost?

I agree. However, the problem is slightly complicated by the fact that there is no loot or gas that resides in low class holes that is not also found in c5/6 holes. As such anything that increases income in low class wormholes will also increase it in the high end ones as well.

Can anyone tel me if the capital-sma bug (where you could access it from outside the force field) has been fixed? A link to the patch notes / dev post would be nice too.