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Nerf NOS while we're nerfing EW

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BetaZ	Posted - 2006.06.26 16:27:00 - [1] Ok so before i get flamed to death about this, please read: So theres a stacking penalty for many items in eve wich are perceived to be overpowered without a stacking penalty, EW is about to become the item with a stacking penalty. However while we're nerfing that can we please have a stacking penalty on NOS. A NOS dom is probaly the last 'extreme setup' left in the game and i think it needs to be addressed or any ship with 3+ NOS. Pilgrims and Curse should not fall under this stacking penalty as these ships are designed to nos, such as a rook or falcon should not be penalised for EW stacking. But a NOS dom can win almost any fight 1v1 or 2v1, the only way to defeat it is a EW ship and even then it is just a ECM burst fitted to the dom to counter this. So can we please look at a stacking penalty for the NOS. Please feel free to post your ideas and comments below ( no flames ) BetaZ Support the Gang Structure Thread
Zarch AlDain	Posted - 2006.06.26 16:50:00 - [2] I agree NOS need looking at, I don't believe they are planning a stacking penalty for ewar though? They have strengthened the counter-measures instead... Zarch AlDain The Blackwater Brigade Huzzah Federation
Pan Zhu'Liang	Posted - 2006.06.26 17:07:00 - [3] assuming NOS needs a nerf, which i'm not convinced of, this is definitely the right track. a similar idea that might be more straightforward would be to limit the number of NOS that can be used against any one target. I think a cap of two or three would be reasonable to limit excessive nos settups without reducing the viability of nos as an alternative to weapons.
Blind Man	Posted - 2006.06.26 18:05:00 - [4] nos are fine :S
Uagen Zlepe	Posted - 2006.06.26 18:52:00 - [5] Edited by: Uagen Zlepe on 26/06/2006 18:53:06 Does one normaly place a stacking penalty to high slotted items?
Arcadia1701	Posted - 2006.06.26 22:46:00 - [6] its not NOS, its more the impossible to kill Vampire EW domi, and the near impossible ot kill VAmping EW ishtar. Probably the gallente teir 2 BC will be the same, vamping unkillable EW thing that u cant counter. when will the madness stoppppp...
Zarch AlDain	Posted - 2006.06.26 23:48:00 - [7] Originally by: Arcadia1701 its not NOS, its more the impossible to kill Vampire EW domi, and the near impossible ot kill VAmping EW ishtar. Probably the gallente teir 2 BC will be the same, vamping unkillable EW thing that u cant counter. when will the madness stoppppp... Well try putting some anti-ewar modules on your ship and going hunting. Let us know if it's still a problem after the changes :) Zarch AlDain The Blackwater Brigade Huzzah Federation
Thnikkaman	Posted - 2006.06.27 02:18:00 - [8] Nos isn't the problem, imo. EW is the main problem, and it's the reason Domi's win a fight... it's also the most boring way to die on this game. Most Domi's have all Nos, Target Jammers, drones and no freaking guns. If you're in a HAC (an Amarr at least), your default resistances will cause a very slow, boring and painful death due to having no Cap... it's like been stabbed with a butter knife. How any BS is allowed to tank, nos, and Target Jam all at once is just beyond a joke. EW was fine how it was and it made sense. _____________________________________________/ Here comes the Thnikkaman! Yeah! Shut up kid!
Aakron	Posted - 2006.06.27 02:57:00 - [9] If nos has a stacking penalty, then please add a stacking penalty to guns and missiles, thanks
xh'duality	Posted - 2006.06.27 04:14:00 - [10] Edited by: xh''duality on 27/06/2006 04:14:44 LoL k so what more has to get stacking penaltys maybe t2 ammo and drone's and wile we are at it maybe on how much isk someone is allowed to own. like come on it's part of the game. use cap boost charges and t2 ammo and ull take out a domi easyly. read a 101 noob ganking book or so for to learn how to gank a nos domi. rest my case in hell
Boonaki	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:05:00 - [11] If you nerf nos you should also nerf small guns damage vs larger ships. Example... Small gun vs battleship 25% damage. Medium gun vs battleship 50% damage. Large gun vs battleship 100% damage. Large gun vs Capital 50% damage. Small gun vs Capital 10% damage. Xlarge gun vs Frigate 200% damage. Large gun vs Frigate 150% damage. Medium gun vs Frigate 125% damage. Small gun vs frigate 100% damage. That will make it fair. Fear the Ibis of doom!
Chalan Galadriel	Posted - 2006.06.29 02:29:00 - [12] I`m not sure that the Dominix has a great deal of choice in the matter, as it struggles to fit guns on as it is, Neutrons (forget it) Ions (not if you want a tank) Electrons (Doable, but the damage output is questionable and the Domi is no mega) Dual 250's (lol) 250 railgun II's (more damage than dual 250's) 425's (never) 350's (may as well throw stones) I`ve been flying the Domi for ages now and have 6 mill in drone skills, i`ve tried everything. The best compromise i have found is 2 nos with 4 electrons, although i can only get one repper on it then, and i dont like to leave home with less than 2. The most sucessfull setup for me is 3 x nos, 2 x 250 II's, and a dual repper tank. (one hi slot empty) The Dominix is a drone boat, its not supposed to be able to fit battleship guns very easily, i can accept this of course but there are ways to counter a domi. You can run away :P
TOOMY	Posted - 2006.06.29 14:24:00 - [13] many, many, many things in eve need a rethink IMHO
CHAOS100	Posted - 2006.06.29 21:52:00 - [14] NOS is fine as is, EW nerf is OK. Domi hasn't changed for more than a year, and now it is all of a sudden a "omfgpwnboat". I don't understand it. As someone else said.. can we get some gun stacking nerfs too?
Radcjk	Posted - 2006.06.30 04:13:00 - [15] Edited by: Radcjk on 30/06/2006 04:14:29 For every tactic in eve (or any other game, or even real life) there's a counter tactic and a counter to that. Eccm and to stop the Ecm. Nos them back or use cap chargers to maintain some cap while fighting back. Ecm bursts wreck havoc on drone locks. Nerfing Nos is, as other people pointed out already, like nerfing guns and missles. Alternatively it is an engineering mod, so we can nerf and put stacking restrictions on those too. I75 % of the ships I fly, by choice, are frigates. Tech 1 6 days out of 7. If I can live through getting nossed, so can a battleship. Its all in how your set. Some times you can plan and some times the odds dictate who's better set to counter whom, but nerfing nos isnt the solution.
D'archy	Posted - 2006.06.30 13:57:00 - [16] Well here is an idea... flame me if it sucks. When a persons cap is completly drained the NOS's deactivate like because there is no energy to suck (and nothing to keep them running) This would mean if somone has a NOS domi they cant just sit back and let the NOS's do the work, they have to actively toggle them and they cant just throw all of them back on... only as many as there is cap to drain. This would give a fast thinking person time to use any cap boosters to warp out, but allow an equally fast thinking NOS user to conteract that. Im no NOS junkie so i cant be sure how much this would change the balance... but i reckon it is enough to give somone a chance to escape but little enough to make NOS's work exactly the same as before most of the time.
BetaZ	Posted - 2006.07.01 07:21:00 - [17] Advanced drone interfacing lvl 5 any one? Nos domi + 10 heavy drones II.... its gunna be a nightmare (once again) well i'll let the GM / Devs make their mind up. Support the Gang Structure Thread
dingadong	Posted - 2006.07.01 07:24:00 - [18] Edited by: dingadong on 01/07/2006 07:25:52 ironicly when you jam a nos-dominix it will still pwn you with its drones, overpowered ... HELL YES
Jai Cee	Posted - 2006.07.01 11:42:00 - [19] Personally as a Domi pilot I feel its overpowered. I only have 7 mill SP and its very clear to me that the nos domi is far far easier to fly than a Mega and will kill far more easily than a Mega. However it has a lot of draw backs, for one thing in most other setups that don't feature EWar and NOS it really looses badly since it can't fit a rack of larger guns. Mainly I feel this is a problem with EW rather than NOS afterall the very simple counter to NOS is to stay out of the 25Km range which most BS setups can do easily. The problem is then staying out of ECM range which is a lot further. The domi as it is just now is a close range fighter with very little going for it at long range. Nerf ECM and the domi will loose some of its powers, NOS doesn't need the nerf nearly as badly as the ECM does.
Jerick Ludhowe	Posted - 2006.07.03 16:33:00 - [20] I have to agree with the OP that nos at the moment is breaking game inner and outerclass game ballance. I do not think that a stacking penatly would be in order but rather limit the number of nos/nuets a ship can fit. For example domi could have 2 high power enginiering slots, these would be like turret/launcher hardpoints except for nos. Another option would be a overall nerf to the modules across the board, none of this sig radius nonsense. CCP could even add a skill that increases your resistance to energy vampiers and destabilizers by 5% per level. There are a number of options CCP has available to them to fix this issue, however for it to be fixed CCP needs accept the fact that nos is Overpowerd. I have a rather unique idea (have not seen it posted yet) on how to make cap boosters a better counter to nos. If you are being nossed and you inject cap into your ship it could have a % chance (25-30%) of overloading the nos and shutting it down for 30 seconds. I am a fan of introducing counter modules rather than nerfing in most cases however I feel that nos may need both.
betazero	Posted - 2006.07.03 17:07:00 - [21] nos domi might seem overpowered when its 1vs1 or 2vs1 but most pvp in the game isnt in small numbers in fleets nos domi isnt going to do much when everyone is lagging and modules dont want to activate. why u think just about everyone is long range in fleets?
Arcadia1701	Posted - 2006.07.03 18:48:00 - [22] Originally by: BetaZ Advanced drone interfacing lvl 5 any one? Nos domi + 10 heavy drones II.... its gunna be a nightmare (once again) well i'll let the GM / Devs make their mind up. Well someone can't read lol.
Entilzah Valen	Posted - 2006.07.03 22:31:00 - [23] Half of your are absolutely ***** stupid. The main issue with nos is that if you try to engage a nossing ship the cap removed is immediate which doesn't allow for any reaction time in certain cases. IE if your in a frig with proper backup and you get nossed by a nos dom, your cap is immediately stolen and good luck getting enough of a recharge to use your modules to attempt to escape/defend yourself and you will likely die. So... reading the above, it becomes pretty apparent based on what everyone is *ing about, that maybe nos should have a more "real-time" cap removal rate rather than a "omg I steal 120 cap from you right now hahahahahaha u **** now"
ragewind	Posted - 2006.07.03 23:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Entilzah Valen Half of your are absolutely ***** stupid. The main issue with nos is that if you try to engage a nossing ship the cap removed is immediate which doesn't allow for any reaction time in certain cases. IE if your in a frig with proper backup and you get nossed by a nos dom, your cap is immediately stolen and good luck getting enough of a recharge to use your modules to attempt to escape/defend yourself and you will likely die. So... reading the above, it becomes pretty apparent based on what everyone is *ing about, that maybe nos should have a more "real-time" cap removal rate rather than a "omg I steal 120 cap from you right now hahahahahaha u **** now" no you are stupid for taking a frig up against a domi it will spew forth drones and pop you regardless of nos ffs a fris should die to a BS or atleast not bother it ------------------------------------ fix eves industrial sector! advanced industrial ship
Entilzah Valen	Posted - 2006.07.04 00:49:00 - [25] Edited by: Entilzah Valen on 04/07/2006 00:51:10 Originally by: ragewind Originally by: Entilzah Valen Half of your are absolutely ***** stupid. The main issue with nos is that if you try to engage a nossing ship the cap removed is immediate which doesn't allow for any reaction time in certain cases. IE if your in a frig with proper backup and you get nossed by a nos dom, your cap is immediately stolen and good luck getting enough of a recharge to use your modules to attempt to escape/defend yourself and you will likely die. So... reading the above, it becomes pretty apparent based on what everyone is *ing about, that maybe nos should have a more "real-time" cap removal rate rather than a "omg I steal 120 cap from you right now hahahahahaha u ** now" no you are stupid for taking a frig up against a domi it will spew forth drones and pop you regardless of nos ffs a fris should die to a BS or atleast not bother it Disregarding everything you said in light of N-CREL. Frigates tackle things. Thats their job. Also I said proper backup dip**.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.07.04 01:07:00 - [26] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 04/07/2006 01:08:16 Originally by: BetaZ [i]Pilgrims and Curse should not fall under this stacking penalty as these ships are designed to nos, such as a rook or falcon should not be penalised for EW stacking. COMPLETELY disagree. ONE mechanism, and if the specalist ship can't be useful under it then the mechanism has allready failed one important test. Stacking penalties are also rather silly when you consider that they are not affecting an attribute, but rather a derived value.. (gun's don't stack, and neither should nos). Shrug, I still like my proposed change. That or over-nossing (overful cap) does hull damage on a 1:1 basis.
Kozlack	Posted - 2006.07.04 01:53:00 - [27] Stay out of NOS range? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ On Vacation........
Warden Nightstar	Posted - 2006.07.04 08:27:00 - [28] Edited by: Warden Nightstar on 04/07/2006 08:27:51 Even better would be to make webifiers specific to propulsion types. Each race in Eve uses a different type of propulsion in their ships, just as they use different sensor types. It makes perfect sense to require different webifiers for each engine type. That way, if you want to be able to web that fast interceptor, you better be sure you have the right module fitted. Change this, and only a dedicated tackler ship can realistically hit you with multiple webbers and slow you down to single digits.
Gyro DuAquin1	Posted - 2006.07.04 09:32:00 - [29] the nos are fine imo, because nos has a very limited range, with battles at 180+ u can have ur nos but u wont be much of a help nos has a pretty bad ass fitting req nos will not affect any ships with a passiv tank and ships with no activation cost for weapons (Launchers and proj) with a full nos setup u cant fit a dual l rep, so a t2 torp raven propper fitted will just blow u out of space Besides this A) I see ppl telling that a hac can win against a domi, well thats because a domi is a gank squad death. U can easly kill two hacs in domi, and even if u die, and killed only 1 u have achieved something. But the point is some bs are not realy a propper target for hacs, ever met a cm t2 raven in your hac? Go and do it, then u will whine about that cms are overpowerd. OFC if u gank a npc raven its not a big deal, but a pvp fitted raven will blow every hac out of the space, without the need to jam tbh. b) The domi offers not different fitting. As someone mentiond before, the l rails are no option, mega is the better rail boat. Blasters are not needed cause with good drone skills the domi is hardly to beat about dps. How to beat the domi in a 1vs1 ofc its a good 1on1 ship like the raven, but if stay out of nos range, kill his drones with ur drones and dont get jammed you got a good change to win. So its a bit tricky and u need to be a bit smart for it, but its absolut doable, when u r not in a short range hac and know what u r doing. So dont get ganked by a domi cause u are to close. Domi is absolut great in smaller battles where u can choose the range, but its still not uber, its just a good bs for its limited way of fighting. my 2 isk PS iam not good with drones and i dont fly it too often :) I show u how to lead your fleets check it here
Crumplecorn	Posted - 2006.07.04 11:15:00 - [30] Originally by: Warden Nightstar Edited by: Warden Nightstar on 04/07/2006 08:27:51 Even better would be to make webifiers specific to propulsion types. Each race in Eve uses a different type of propulsion in their ships, just as they use different sensor types. It makes perfect sense to require different webifiers for each engine type. That's like saying a brick wall will only stop a car with a petrol engine. Webifiers affect the ship, not the engine. ---------- Throwing ships away doing stupid things since April '06

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