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robacz	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Socinus Are there any plans currently to deal with gatecampers or give us a way of counter-acting them or atleast avoiding them? Gatecampers RUIN the game, ganging 20 ships up on one single ship sucks, especially when you get podkilled for no reason at all. Just check your map before you go to lowsec or 0.0. "Show pods destroyed in last hour" will show you most gatecamps, you would have to be very unlucky to check map few mins before they started new camp somewhere on your route. ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:53:00 - [32] CCP designed the game so that most combat happens at gates in this manner. It's a bad design... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
robacz	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:56:00 - [33] Well in lowsec, there are still good chances to survive cos they cant make bubbles. But in 0.0 you are basically screwed if you run into some serious gatecamp and thats wrong. ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders
DARK DAY	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:57:00 - [34] Originally by: Socinus I dont want to hear that "Well its YOUR fault" crap. How is it other people's fault? Jerks rip off people who did nothing wrong and are trying to earn an honest coin. When you deal with this bold part of your post, everything will be much easier to accept later on. This isnt a game where Good or bad gonna win or lose. Its about ppl and they flexibility and creativity. There are no Angels that will aid you from heavens just because you think you are honest man. No angels, but ppl might help you...and yourself by adopting to dangers on your path. Adopting wont happen without losses ...and that isnt bad thing but god. It will make you stronger in time. Only thing that you should worry about is Bugs and exploit of game mechanic, which will be dealt by CCP...sooner or later
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 10:58:00 - [35] Originally by: robacz Well in lowsec, there are still good chances to survive cos they cant make bubbles. But in 0.0 you are basically screwed if you run into some serious gatecamp and thats wrong. Well, in 0.0 there are no rules, so you technically can't get "screwed" by anything other than your own ignorance... The fact still remains the basic game design kind of sucks... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Stamm	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:01:00 - [36] Originally by: Socinus I dont want to hear that "Well its YOUR fault" crap. How is it other people's fault? Jerks rip off people who did nothing wrong and are trying to earn an honest coin. You did something wrong - You were in somebody elses space. An honest coin? It's a dishonest coin. You come to my house, go round the back and start digging up my vegetables, and I'll beat seven shades of ****e out of you. Would you then start bleating about it being unfair? 0.0 space is owned by corporations and alliances, as is intended by CCP. Live with that, or try to change it by taking that space away from them and making it some hippy communist commune where everybody is free. Either that or quit Eve.
robacz	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: robacz Well in lowsec, there are still good chances to survive cos they cant make bubbles. But in 0.0 you are basically screwed if you run into some serious gatecamp and thats wrong. Well, in 0.0 there are no rules, so you technically can't get "screwed" by anything other than your own ignorance... The fact still remains the basic game design kind of sucks... Question is, how to make if different? Put longrange guns on all gates and add some way of distrupting warp like in Freelancer pirates distruped highways (or how it was called)? Then pirates would have to find good place where lots of ships come around in warp and pilots could take unusual routes to avoid pirates... ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders
Stamm	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:07:00 - [38] Originally by: robacz Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: robacz Well in lowsec, there are still good chances to survive cos they cant make bubbles. But in 0.0 you are basically screwed if you run into some serious gatecamp and thats wrong. Well, in 0.0 there are no rules, so you technically can't get "screwed" by anything other than your own ignorance... The fact still remains the basic game design kind of sucks... Question is, how to make if different? Put longrange guns on all gates and add some way of distrupting warp like in Freelancer pirates distruped highways (or how it was called)? Then pirates would have to find good place where lots of ships come around in warp and pilots could take unusual routes to avoid pirates... Why disrupt it? If you're talking about lowsec then you might have a point. Low sec ganking is too easy due to ships being able to tank the guns without problems. I habitually shoot anybody that looks like they might have nice stuff in lowsec, and do not fear the sentry guns. But in 0.0, there has to be some way for people to stop other people entering their space. The game is territorial. A complete lockdown of an alliances space unless a massive gang formed would probably not be fun for the game. Pirates and people just out for a bit of fun in small gangs wouldn't be able to do it any more. So gatecamps are a way to do it. Personally I'd like it if interdictors worked like they said in the description. You go to a midpoint and bubble it, and people drop out of warp and into your bubble. That's breaching enemies warp tunnels :)
robacz	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Stamm Personally I'd like it if interdictors worked like they said in the description. You go to a midpoint and bubble it, and people drop out of warp and into your bubble. That's breaching enemies warp tunnels :) Yes thats something what I meant for lowsec. Make it impossible to camp gates (either by improved sentries, or regular CONCORD cleaning visits), but let pirates to do bubbles in free space. However not close to stations. I guess this would make lowsec mining very problematic, cos pirates would mainly operate in belts, with bubbles etc... dunno but maybe its still better than untouchable sniper gatecamps. ___________ Buying/selling Implants, Cargo Expanders
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:17:00 - [40] Originally by: robacz Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: robacz Well in lowsec, there are still good chances to survive cos they cant make bubbles. But in 0.0 you are basically screwed if you run into some serious gatecamp and thats wrong. Well, in 0.0 there are no rules, so you technically can't get "screwed" by anything other than your own ignorance... The fact still remains the basic game design kind of sucks... Question is, how to make if different? Put longrange guns on all gates and add some way of distrupting warp like in Freelancer pirates distruped highways (or how it was called)? Then pirates would have to find good place where lots of ships come around in warp and pilots could take unusual routes to avoid pirates... CCP chose the chokepoint/gate design for the layout, it's a fundamental game design. You really can't change that now... We basically have to wait for the next space MMO to see if it's done any better... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Stamm	Posted - 2006.06.27 11:28:00 - [41] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: robacz Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: robacz Well in lowsec, there are still good chances to survive cos they cant make bubbles. But in 0.0 you are basically screwed if you run into some serious gatecamp and thats wrong. Well, in 0.0 there are no rules, so you technically can't get "screwed" by anything other than your own ignorance... The fact still remains the basic game design kind of sucks... Question is, how to make if different? Put longrange guns on all gates and add some way of distrupting warp like in Freelancer pirates distruped highways (or how it was called)? Then pirates would have to find good place where lots of ships come around in warp and pilots could take unusual routes to avoid pirates... CCP chose the chokepoint/gate design for the layout, it's a fundamental game design. You really can't change that now... We basically have to wait for the next space MMO to see if it's done any better... Well, it's not perfect. But it's not that bad really. I can't think of any other way to control space effectively, think of the actual size of a solar system, having focal points where people enter and leave are pretty much essential, either that or nobody could own space.
Ms Freak	Posted - 2006.06.27 12:04:00 - [42] Originally by: Fuujin You have a map, you have a scanner, you have local and on top of all of that you have a variety of other ways. How do you not have the tools? I do have to agree that when you get insta-ganked at a gate there's simply nothing you can do, none of these things help. (well apart from the map if the ganking has been going on for more than 30 minutes)
General Andraax	Posted - 2006.06.27 12:13:00 - [43] Originally by: Stamm Well, it's not perfect. But it's not that bad really. I can't think of any other way to control space effectively, think of the actual size of a solar system, having focal points where people enter and leave are pretty much essential, either that or nobody could own space. You see that's the thing... space is space, there are no paths in space. CCP implemented EVE space like any mmo implements "zones", that is the only reason for the jumpgates as I see it, it was by far the simplest way of implementing zoning in a space environment. In my opinon it was a bad design decition, but it is to late to change now, unless they implement jump drives for all ships. Cheers,
Laythun	Posted - 2006.06.27 12:19:00 - [44] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: robacz Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: robacz Well in lowsec, there are still good chances to survive cos they cant make bubbles. But in 0.0 you are basically screwed if you run into some serious gatecamp and thats wrong. Well, in 0.0 there are no rules, so you technically can't get "screwed" by anything other than your own ignorance... The fact still remains the basic game design kind of sucks... Question is, how to make if different? Put longrange guns on all gates and add some way of distrupting warp like in Freelancer pirates distruped highways (or how it was called)? Then pirates would have to find good place where lots of ships come around in warp and pilots could take unusual routes to avoid pirates... CCP chose the chokepoint/gate design for the layout, it's a fundamental game design. You really can't change that now... We basically have to wait for the next space MMO to see if it's done any better... how would you do it? If its so flawed you must have some better alternative bubbling away. care to enlighten us *See You In Space Cowboy*
Whelan Iskander	Posted - 2006.06.27 12:21:00 - [45] Originally by: Stamm 0.0 space is owned by corporations and alliances, as is intended by CCP. Live with that, or try to change it by taking that space away from them and making it some hippy communist commune where everybody is free. Either that or quit Eve. But you'll have to admin that some corporations bite of much more space then they can chew. The gatecamps allow them to block large portions of the map, whilst having no use for it. Yet, because the block the only entrance, they claim all that lies behind. Or to use your imagery, I don't want to eat your vegetables, I just want to cross your land to get to the lands behind your little garden... 't Is indeed bad design I also feel.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.06.27 12:21:00 - [46] Originally by: General Andraax Originally by: Stamm Well, it's not perfect. But it's not that bad really. I can't think of any other way to control space effectively, think of the actual size of a solar system, having focal points where people enter and leave are pretty much essential, either that or nobody could own space. You see that's the thing... space is space, there are no paths in space. CCP implemented EVE space like any mmo implements "zones", that is the only reason for the jumpgates as I see it, it was by far the simplest way of implementing zoning in a space environment. In my opinon it was a bad design decition, but it is to late to change now, unless they implement jump drives for all ships. Cheers, If they ever expand to brand new regions, they need to create more ship classes with jump capability, and have no gates in those regions... And let corps and alliances fill in with player made gates. Tie the allowed jump in capabilities to SOV, etc... A new frontier is needed, for both the players and the game itself. This would do it... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Mextor	Posted - 2006.06.27 12:25:00 - [47] Originally by: Qing Feng Edited by: Qing Feng on 27/06/2006 10:21:14 Avoiding outbound gate camps is generally a no-brainer. They're all focused on the gate anyway, not on who's checking them out from behind. In fact, if you have a good BM, you stand a good chance of just blowing right by them and gating, even in a shuttle. It's the warp-in gates through key system chokes that are the major PITA. sub 5-sec lock times + long-range sniper weaponry >>> 30 sec cloak this is true in part but when u also see a med warp bubble, of which most ppl place on the gate, warping to the gate in a shuttle is not a good idea, as that is asking to get popped, and the warp bubble is not for inbound ppl, its for catching ppl who are trying to get out, anyone who has spent time in 0.0 and is not a retard would know that. also if your going to try and pick faults in someones post be a man and do it with ur main. Full Stats
Mextor	Posted - 2006.06.27 12:42:00 - [48] Edited by: Mextor on 27/06/2006 12:45:53 Originally by: General Andraax You see that's the thing... space is space, there are no paths in space. CCP implemented EVE space like any mmo implements "zones", that is the only reason for the jumpgates as I see it, it was by far the simplest way of implementing zoning in a space environment. In my opinon it was a bad design decition, but it is to late to change now, unless they implement jump drives for all ships. Cheers, i get what ur saying, but the only problem with that is empire safe space would be impossible to police, there would be gangs of intys and stuff running round popping ships left, right and centre. and if concord turn up warp to something very far away that will take ur 15 mins to get there. edit: P.S. it was ur guys i ran in to on my way back from stain, not a very talkative bunch are they Full Stats
Imperial Coercion	Posted - 2006.06.27 13:29:00 - [49] Originally by: Socinus I dont want to hear that "Well its YOUR fault" crap. How is it other people's fault? Jerks rip off people who did nothing wrong and are trying to earn an honest coin. Ive heard YOU SPEAK BEFORE
Altaree	Posted - 2006.06.27 13:43:00 - [50] Can I have your stuff? StopThePop
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.27 13:53:00 - [51] A maximum number of locks on one target would be quite good - 8 locks per ship. Would spread the fire out in fleets and make gate camping a little (8 vs 1 is pretty bad) bit fairer. An added bonus would be longer battles.
fuze	Posted - 2006.06.27 13:55:00 - [52] Give all ship jumpdrives without the cynofield. We ain't got balls, but plenty of nuts.
Torrence Osti	Posted - 2006.06.27 14:00:00 - [53] Originally by: Socinus No you dont lose, you get screwed. Gatecampers are *******s who are too scared to go toe to toe with a legitamate target so they gang up 20 ships on one target and nail him before he has a chance to do anything. Its asanine and its incredibly cowardly. I'm sorry you're stupid. Let me guess, in your world of happy sunshine PvP, everyone would 1v1 eachother, and afterwords give eachother a reach around? That's not how it works in this game nor will it ever work that way, I HOPE.
Copenhagen Reaper	Posted - 2006.06.27 14:41:00 - [54] Quote: And it's not about having tools, it's about how very...very...lame it is to sit by a gate with 10-20 people, shooting all that passes. "camping a gate" or running a blockade as some people may refer to it as is and always has been a sound and successful Military and combat tactic in the real world and in games........ See in Japan they have what is called shared fault for traffic laws. basically if someone hits you and its not your fault you both are still equally guilty, because while you were hit and the actuall impact was not caused by you, you could have chosen to take another road so there for by your choice you are guilty cause if you were never there you would have never been hit. Same applies in this game, Noone held a gun to your head and told you to jump through that gate.....you took a risk and got your back side handed to ya, Lifes a Bit@h. at any rate, take it with a grain of salt cause I doubt you will find any sympathy on these boards.
Prestis	Posted - 2006.06.27 14:55:00 - [55] People who are against so-called 'gatecampers' are basically saying 'turn PvP off in EvE unless I decide to go and hang around in an asteroid belt'.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:34:00 - [56] Originally by: Infinity Ziona A maximum number of locks on one target would be quite good - 8 locks per ship. Would spread the fire out in fleets and make gate camping a little (8 vs 1 is pretty bad) bit fairer. An added bonus would be longer battles. Yeah, brilliant idea! Now a group of 8 gate campers lock each other and then no player can lock them to break up the camp. Exploit! I love it when people really think through the conseqences of their bright ideas.
eve warrior	Posted - 2006.06.27 15:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Socinus I dont want to hear that "Well its YOUR fault" crap. How is it other people's fault? Jerks rip off people who did nothing wrong and are trying to earn an honest coin. Eve is about risk vs reward, buy going to low sec you get better npc's, better ore to mine which leads to more isk for you. But at the same time the risk gets higher. If you cant handle it, then dont go to low sec and use the map to set your AP to use the SAFE route when traveling though empire. As stated serverl times in this thread already, Look at the Map for Pod kills in the Last hour, it will give u an indication of snipers sitting on a gate. Also look at ship Kills in the last hr, or would u like ccp do hold your hand for you ? Eve warrior
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:06:00 - [58] "Urrr gather your own fleet and go kick them out of the system then. Or take a reasonable force and engage them. They will probably fight. By reasonable I DONT mean take 30 ships for their 20, theyre tanking sentries allready ffs." LMAO you're farking kidding right? Let me get this straight you're A-OK with 20 gate campers instantly slaughtering solo ships caught passing through, but you insist that if your gonna bust that camp that people should be REASONABLE, don;t bring 30 friends to clear them out i mean the poor gate campers are already tanking sentries FFS! You must be a gate camper or something. Sorry the kinda people who camp gates do not stick around for anything close to resembling a fair fight, and they all warp out first sign of trouble. Sure to some places he can avoid them but sometimes they are at choke points .... actually usually they are there lol, so I guess he should just log out and not play... nice solution. sorry the HUNTER has the MASSIVE advantage in EVE not the runner/escaping players. a couple warp bubbles on the other side of the gate and a fast webber or 2 and uhm YOUR DEAD PERIOD ther eis no chance vs well set up gate camps of that size. I am not sure what you think most players in eve do but i can assure you that the VAST majority of people cannot gather 20-30 people to break a gate camp, especially knowing the ease of which gate campers can just turn and run away to start with. Here everyone drop what your doing go get a pvp ship, then warp for 30 minutes to xxxx gate in BFE to force a bunch of player to warp to a SS or just run away then warp back for 30 minutes and resume what you were doing.... Ahh yes such a reasonable solution LMAO!
Montague Zooma	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:22:00 - [59] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Urrr gather your own fleet and go kick them out of the system then. Or take a reasonable force and engage them. They will probably fight. By reasonable I DONT mean take 30 ships for their 20, theyre tanking sentries allready ffs. That's an interesting double standard. 20 to 1 odds are acceptable for the gate campers to use, but 3 to 2 odds are "unreasonable" for defenders to use? Gatecampers delight in teaching others that Eve is not fair. So why should anyone care about whether "reasonable" force is used to deal with them? The poor dears, I had no idea they were so delicate and deserving of special treatment.
Sir Juri	Posted - 2006.06.27 16:30:00 - [60] I think one can say this thread has run its course. Their is nothing more to say that hasnt been said prolly since beta or something... damn need to make a new sig...

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