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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
689
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Posted - 2014.07.16 16:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Harsh, but fair. I would have liked a refund of SP for the skill, but what I want in this case isn't necessarily the best course of action for the game. Compare the reduction in utility for this skill with a nerf to a particular ship in PvP -- people who had trained into that ship are not entitled to an SP refund; neither should we.
Look on the bright side -- there is no longer a mandatory 15 day skill train to bootstrap new industrial characters. For people just getting into industry, this is an unmitigated benefit. I'll probably still be training this skill to 4 on any new industrial-focused characters. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
691
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Posted - 2014.07.16 16:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Given that the skill is required at 5 to inject Capital Construction, I am even less convinced that a refund is a good idea. The utility of the skill goes from "a hard requirement to compete in industry, period" to "the thing you need to train in order to get into capital construction." This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
692
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Posted - 2014.07.16 17:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ravcharas wrote:Querns wrote:Given that the skill is required at 5 to inject Capital Construction, I am even less convinced that a refund is a good idea. The utility of the skill goes from "a hard requirement to compete in industry, period" to "the thing you need to train in order to get into capital construction." Actually, the hoop you have to jump through to get into capital construction. Pretty much every skill in the game is like this, though. If having to "jump through hoops" to get to a particular skill is distressing, how did you cope with training basically anything of interest before? This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
692
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Posted - 2014.07.16 17:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
asteroidjas wrote:Luscius Uta wrote: This is like changing Rapid firing or Surgical Strike to give 1% bonus to Turret Falloff per level This. Sooo this. Also, i would probly be more okay with this change if it didn't also mean that all items will increase by 25% in material costs (atleast), on top of it only saving 72 minutes a day, trained to lvl 5. The benefit currently being conferred by this skill is being "baked in" to the existing blueprints. Post-Crius, it will be as if everyone already had five ranks in the current implementation of the skill without having to train it. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
694
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Posted - 2014.07.16 18:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Wolf Kraft wrote:mynnna wrote:5% faster building is 5% more isk per time, 5% faster that you can pivot and make something else based on changing market conditions. Mynna, your example (and this skill) are functionally useless because of all the other changes coming in Crius. There is very little point in having a 5% time reduction because you will literally be able to set up as many jobs as you want (though I'm sure there is a technical/code limit somewhere) in a single station since the production/research line limit is being removed from the game. Capital producers may enjoy getting products out marginally faster, but everyone else likely won't notice the difference. However, I fully agree that the skill, in its current iteration, needs to be changed. Unfortunately, the proposed change is far from being a proper specialization skill that CCP is hoping for. I suppose, in your world, you have an unlimited number of characters.
The number of concurrent jobs per station is being removed, but the number of concurrent jobs a single character can run is still limited to 11. Reducing the time that a job takes allows you to cycle your ISK through the market that much faster. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
695
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Posted - 2014.07.16 18:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Quit your job. Dumbing industry down 'for the sake of newbies' is bad. Stop doing it. Removing an onerous requirement to perform in one of Eve's most fundamental activities is not "dumbing industry down."
Anyone who is sane supports the removal of Material Efficiency. The only issue here, and I'm being increasingly convinced it is a non-issue, is the replacement for the skill.
Granted, there were people who thought learning skills were good and should not be removed, too, I suppose. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
697
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Posted - 2014.07.16 20:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kali Aldard wrote:Someone decided "I want to spend time reducing the materials that this blueprint needs" and acted upon it by training a skill. You "decide" to train Material Efficiency today as much as you choose to breathe. It's just not possible to compete without it today. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
697
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Posted - 2014.07.16 20:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rena Senn wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: - we dislike skillpoint reassignment as the act of reassignment incrementally devalues the perceived value of skillpoints accumulated over time
Repurposing skills into less worthy iterations also devalues the perceived value of skillpoints over time, especially when CCP is sending the message that any SP you already invested may suddenly change in operation and hence value with every new patch. You speak of this as if it was a new thing. This has been the general contract between player and MMO designer since time immemorial. Things get nerfed. A line of acquisition or skill in which occurred heavy investment is suddenly for naught. There are precious few ways to make meaningful change in an MMO without this sort of potential. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
697
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Posted - 2014.07.16 20:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's very unlikely that CCP is going to agree to any sort of cost reductions as a potential replacement to this skill. At its core, Material Efficiency is a cost reduction skill, and the whole idea of removing its current effect is to reduce the number of mandatory skills needed to drive costs down. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
697
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Posted - 2014.07.16 21:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Denidil wrote:Querns wrote:It's very unlikely that CCP is going to agree to any sort of cost reductions as a potential replacement to this skill. At its core, Material Efficiency is a cost reduction skill, and the whole idea of removing its current effect is to reduce the number of mandatory skills needed to drive costs down. That's why i'm talking about production line costs, not material costs. This is exactly the same Skill as Broker Relations, except it applies to production and research lines instead of market orders. Costs are costs are costs. It doesn't matter what "side" of the equation receives the levies; the levies themselves are being targeted. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
697
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Posted - 2014.07.16 22:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Wolf Kraft wrote:The only people that this skill will truly help, are those handful of individuals that run industry jobs 24/7 without interruption on all 11 jobs or if you produce capitals/supers. If you have more than an hour of dead time in between jobs each day (or 11hrs on a single job) on a single character, this skill very quickly becomes useless for the amount of SP required for V. Whereas with a single account, where you can have 33 jobs running, now that the line limit is being removed you can centralize all those characters into a single station of your choosing that has the necessary services. That itself is going to be a much more significant way to save time because now you're greatly simplifying the logistics of moving materials and products around while you're actually playing the game. Barring that, this allows industrial corporations to benefit from this centralization as well.
Like I said, this was a skill that needed to be changed. However, this is not a good way to change it. Especially considering they could have adjusted the skill to interact with the new team dynamic that's being introduced with the industry changes. Do they not have multiple runs where you live? Most of my jobs take five to seven days to run. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
698
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Posted - 2014.07.17 15:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Trading the old Material Efficiency skill for yet another cost reduction skill seems a bit incongruous. Granted, the cost reduction proposed with Advanced Industry is much, much lower, but it still smacks of another mandatory skill to train in order to compete. The time reduction proposal seems better to me; it offers an advantage to some types of industry without being a 100% requirement. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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