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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cerberix
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Posted - 2006.06.30 18:37:00 -
[31]
Signed
pls make hail actually usuable
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Mahavy Seth
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Posted - 2006.06.30 21:18:00 -
[32]
/signed again! damn I also hope CCP do something regarding cap 0 consumption... what if we make that everytime minmatars ships shoot, they get a +1 cap recharge per shoot? (this can be accomplished by Dinamo activated by projectile run).
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Prestis
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Posted - 2006.06.30 21:20:00 -
[33]
Signed.
I've seen Hail selling for less than EMP.
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jernej
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Posted - 2006.08.04 17:00:00 -
[34]
Signed
Bump !!! |
Reatu Krentor
Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2006.08.04 17:24:00 -
[35]
Yah, speed penalty is a bit harsh, replace with what I suggested in other thread pls. -30% falloff, same additional penalty null gets to its optimal. Cap recharge penalty I don't have too much problems with myself, it's there cause in the opinion of the devs projectiles don't need cap, so there is no cap use penalty they can add so they had to resort to a cap recharge penalty.
To recap: Give hail instead of velocity penalty, a falloff penalty of 30%. - "I wish CONCORD would scream "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" when they turn up to blob you. " -_ Twilight Moon |
xlop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.28 14:53:00 -
[36]
yarr, fix hail ffs
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Uchikage
Rampage Eternal
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Posted - 2006.08.28 15:08:00 -
[37]
Speed penalties for the skirmish warfare race is rediculous beyond description. It would be the same as giving the Gallente a damage penalty, or the Amarr an armor resistance penalty. _______________________________________________ "...which will become my sword in the very near future." "Bish, you don't have a future."
Who Dares, Wins -SAS |
voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.08.28 15:38:00 -
[38]
/signed
but change the penalty to some thing that is balance.
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vyperpit
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2006.08.28 16:09:00 -
[39]
loose the speed penalty, give it -25% falloff
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Max Hardcase
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Posted - 2006.08.28 16:17:00 -
[40]
I vote we instead ditch the whole tech2 ammo mess as it stands now and start from scratch. Preferably with less nberness.
As strange as it may sound I agree with Maya on this subject ---------------------------------------------- Max Hardcase > yawn-o-rama Max Hardcase > is this typical of RA warfare ? FreaKsh0 > yes boredom fitted in all their high slots |
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Bazman
Caldari The Establishment
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Posted - 2006.08.28 16:21:00 -
[41]
I agree, unnerf Hail
To be honest though, I've had great results with it in only one specific situation. Breaking a BS tank with my Jaguar :o Whats funny is that its basically only usable by passively tanked ships that are attacking a larger target than them. So like, only useful in roughly 5% of PVP situations i get into. -----
Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a |
Lunna
Tica Vun
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Posted - 2006.08.31 17:43:00 -
[42]
/signed
Switching to hail on the spot (once you come close enough to your target) is pointless. In those 10sec while loading your guns, you'll kill the extra damage it does and prolly just break even with t1 ammo.
Starting (or flying) with hail loaded is also pointless, as you never know how far your target will be, unless warping to your gang mate, who is already close to the enemy. Not to mention that, 6 guns loaded with hail is almost like having a webifier on you. The ship flys like a brick, takes ages to align, plus your cap recharge is crippled.
Hail is far from being a decent ammo at the moment.
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Hair
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2006.08.31 17:51:00 -
[43]
Signed
it's useless
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Bhoki Tentor
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Posted - 2006.08.31 18:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Hair Signed
it's useless
It's not useless... It's not as usefull as the others, yes. Change velocity penalty to -30% falloff penalty(same additional penalty void gets towards optimal -50%(0.5) -30%(* 0.7) = -65%(0.35)) I would consider that a fair penalty that isn't tottally crippling.
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Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.08.31 21:38:00 -
[45]
Why bother replacing it with another penalty?
It already has 4 penalties.
-First is the -50% range which doesn't hurt much admittedly. Void has -65%. -Second is the .5x tracking, which void also has. -Third is the -10% cap recharge rate, which completely ruins any kind of active tank that doesnt use cap boosters, which are a huge, huge hassle to use on an autocannon ship. Void has +25% cap use per shot, which is definitely not as bad as -10% cap recharge rate. -fourth of course is the velocity penalty.
Lets say the velocity penalty is removed as it should be. Void would have a per shot penalty which doesn't hurt the cap recharge as bad as a per gun cap recharge penalty. A cap recharge penalty really isn't that fair (it shouldn't be on missiles either). And obviously a cap use penalty wouldn't work.
I just personally think that any ship-wide bonus or penalty is stupid. Any bonus or penalty should only affect the gun.
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Kaleeb
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.08.31 22:38:00 -
[46]
If Hail wasnt for minmatar it wouldnt have the speed penalty
Originally by: Blacklight
Last night was an 'anomoly' for different reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with skill or who were the better pvpers.
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Bhoki Tentor
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Posted - 2006.08.31 23:54:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tasty Burger Why bother replacing it with another penalty?
It already has 4 penalties.
-First is the -50% range which doesn't hurt much admittedly. Void has -65%. -Second is the .5x tracking, which void also has. -Third is the -10% cap recharge rate, which completely ruins any kind of active tank that doesnt use cap boosters, which are a huge, huge hassle to use on an autocannon ship. Void has +25% cap use per shot, which is definitely not as bad as -10% cap recharge rate. -fourth of course is the velocity penalty.
Void also has 4 penalties.
- Hail -50% optimal and Void -50% optimal
- Hail -50% tracking and Void -50% tracking
- Hail +10% CapRechargeTime and void +25% cap use
- Hail -10% velocity(for large) and void -30% optimal
I'd just suggest changing that velocity penalty to a falloff penalty, keeping the 4 penalties(which void has as well, to stress that point again)
Originally by: Tasty Burger
Lets say the velocity penalty is removed as it should be. Void would have a per shot penalty which doesn't hurt the cap recharge as bad as a per gun cap recharge penalty. A cap recharge penalty really isn't that fair (it shouldn't be on missiles either). And obviously a cap use penalty wouldn't work.
The cap recharge time lost makes the lost cap/s from recharge time not much worse(if at all) then the increased cap use for void ammo
Originally by: Tasty Burger I just personally think that any ship-wide bonus or penalty is stupid. Any bonus or penalty should only affect the gun.
Indeed it would be much better if there wouldn't be a ship-wide bonus, though some form of penalty is still needed I think. Now if they could make hail use cap that could be interesting, would make the penalty only have an effect when actually firing the gun rather then a constant effect while ammo is loaded.
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Wizie
Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.01 00:00:00 -
[48]
Actually Void has 3 penalties... not 4.
You list 2 optimal penalties.
In that case
Hail has 5 more penalties for every gun it fits with hail.
----------------- Sig removed by some noob |
Bhoki Tentor
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Posted - 2006.09.01 00:14:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Wizie Actually Void has 3 penalties... not 4.
You list 2 optimal penalties.
In that case
Hail has 5 more penalties for every gun it fits with hail.
Yup Void has 2 optimal penalties, it has an additional 30% optimal penalty on top of the normal 50% penalty, resulting in a 65% penalty for void in total. and yes it is correct in current form hail tends to nerf any ship it is fitted on badly by applying the same penalty for each gun(which originally CCP claimed wouldn't be the case iirc). I'd rather have the falloff penalty(as 4th penalty) then the velocity penalty.
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.09.01 00:53:00 -
[50]
If we're going to unnerf Hail, might as well put it in line with the 25% damage increase schtick all the other T2 ammo has going.
Yay for no more decent Minmatar damage.
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Gyrn Fzirth
Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.09.01 08:00:00 -
[51]
my autopest with 6 barrles of hail L goes slower than my naglfar - kinda crazy for a close range battleship
Originally by: TyR Omega [08:59:07] TyR Omega > BoB will come and get
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Laythun
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.01 08:21:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sarmaul Once again /signed
If you're not going to change the ethos of T2 ammo, please make all of them equally as usable as each other. Give Conflag and Null (could be void, which ever one does omfg damage) a speed penalty, or remove the one from Hail.
Ewww...Conflag is fine, if you've ever used it. and i hope u have before u start preaching rubbish.
See You In Space Cowboy |
Akiman
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Posted - 2006.09.01 08:42:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Akiman on 01/09/2006 08:44:38 tech II rail ammos SUXXX! i think everybody agree on that and all long range ammos too...
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Bhoki Tentor
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Posted - 2006.09.01 09:27:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Testicular Testes If we're going to unnerf Hail, might as well put it in line with the 25% damage increase schtick all the other T2 ammo has going.
Yay for no more decent Minmatar damage.
Hail is inline with the other T2 ammo's, it's EMP that isn't (is 11 where others are 12)
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.09.01 09:30:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Akiman Edited by: Akiman on 01/09/2006 08:44:38 tech II rail ammos SUXXX! i think everybody agree on that and all long range ammos too...
End yourself. All T2 long range ammo is insanely uber (220km+ sniping, gg).
And to the "unnerf hail" dudes, seriously. It gets a 36% damage increase versus the 25% of everything else. Either that has to go or it's no deal - as it stands, a 36% damage increase on some of the best damage types to kill armor tankers is nuts.
And to be quite honest, since all T2 ammo is overbonused anyway, Hail can stay the way it is until we get around to fixing it properly and eliminating the hilariously broken damage outputs all T2 ammo is giving us.
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Nyssa Dakalsai
Cosmic Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.01 09:31:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Uchikage Speed penalties for the skirmish warfare race is rediculous beyond description. It would be the same as giving the Gallente a damage penalty, or the Amarr an armor resistance penalty.
erm helllloooo! Ammar get a CAP PENALTY. Now think about that for a race that is the MOST cap dependent in the game.
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Kaleeb
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.09.01 09:36:00 -
[57]
Yeah I agree conflag really sucks
Originally by: Blacklight
Last night was an 'anomoly' for different reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with skill or who were the better pvpers.
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Critta
Black Omega Security E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.09.01 10:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nyssa Dakalsai
Originally by: Uchikage Speed penalties for the skirmish warfare race is rediculous beyond description. It would be the same as giving the Gallente a damage penalty, or the Amarr an armor resistance penalty.
erm helllloooo! Ammar get a CAP PENALTY. Now think about that for a race that is the MOST cap dependent in the game.
*thinks for approximately half a second* But wait a minute, doesn't (almost) every Amarr ship come with a cap bonus of some kind?
Amarr ships also need no ammo.
When you fit Hail in your ship, you effectively web yourself and kill your cap recharge, all in one easy step.
I've used conflag with my Amarr character a fair bit, there are ways around extra cap use, there is no way around the kind of speed reductions you get with hail, thus I never ever use it.
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Critta
Black Omega Security E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.09.01 10:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth /signed again! damn I also hope CCP do something regarding cap 0 consumption... what if we make that everytime minmatars ships shoot, they get a +1 cap recharge per shoot? (this can be accomplished by Dinamo activated by projectile run).
Wow, you really are a muppet aren't you.
Minnie cap usage is nominal, but present.
You get cap dead, your guns turn off, you don't need *much* cap to get them back on again, but the cap usage is there.
Get your facts straight before you start trying to be funny, or you might just end up making yourself look stupid ;)
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Gabriel Karade
Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.09.01 11:01:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 01/09/2006 11:02:49 Perhaps remove the velocity penalty (for range penalty?) and drop the damage from 60 to 55 to match the ratio between the other t1/t2 short range ammo's?
It still would be doing an immense ammount of explosive damage afterall.
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- Office Linebacker -
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