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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Murqadyre
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Posted - 2006.07.01 02:24:00 -
[31]
/signed
log-on traps are only possible with the help of teamspeak and the lack of honor. Pathetic.
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androsix
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Posted - 2006.07.01 07:51:00 -
[32]
Edited by: androsix on 01/07/2006 07:52:10
It seems like system loading for the person logging in is the priority. the first thing that a client does, before even spawning in the game is load the system and the ships in the system... There should be a way to flip that, so a ship doesn't spawn until everyone in the system has loaded it. The more people logging in at once, the more time it takes them to load the system because they have to wait for the other players to load it.
This would solve all the issues, and here is why:
Mass fleet crashes - ok, so the whole fleet crashes out, then they all log back in at once. well they would all spawn in the game at pretty much the same time, it would just take them longer for the client to load all the new data. most likely the other players in the system already have them in memory, however, so it probably wouldn't be any noticible time difference.
log-on traps - I have to agree that this is a legitimate strategy, its called an ambush, and I am a supporter of hiding yourself from local. I DO NOT like the way its being used, however; its an exploit, plain and simple. My solution would put the lag on the people loging in. they wouldn't even spawn in the game until the unsuspecting travelers have already loaded all the data of the new ships. Instead of us waiting to load all of them before we can act, they have to wait for us to load the data... The servers could throttle the loading so it doesn't lag everything out. so logging in might be a little slower, but you wouldn't have the lag-bomb that is seen now. No lag, no problem.
to put this in persepective, Assuming that it takes 50 ships .1 second to load 1 ship (pulling numbers out of my ass here), then a login trap of 200 people on 50 ships would mean that 1 ship would spawn every .1 seconds, spreading out the entire fleet loging in by 20 seconds. If ANYBODY has a problem with that, then I can safely say that they are on ***** 
High traffic systems - you don't normally have 100 people logging in at once, even in the busiest systems. Loging in wouldn't take significantly longer because it doesn't take very long for 500 people to load 1 ship (with the numbers above, it would take 1 second longer to log in... cry a river.)
comments?
/androsix\ |
Jahtar DeathBringer
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Posted - 2006.07.01 08:32:00 -
[33]
/signed
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Vortex Freeman
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Posted - 2006.07.01 16:23:00 -
[34]
While I'm not convinced this would be the best way to handle it I'm all for CCP fixing this. Additionally, it would be nice if CCP would actually enforce their banning policy for exploiting lag. This is something that could really screw the game long term unless CCP show they're able to enforce their ban policies. If they continue to favor lag exploiters it probably wouldn't make for very good publicity in places like say Gamespy or PCGamer. Ooops, did I say that out loud? 
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<S>
~ Preparatus Supervivet ~ |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2006.07.02 06:50:00 -
[35]
Sounds excellent to me. As for server crashes, obviously if you just logged off you don't have to enter a queue. 5 minutes to log back on without entering queue.
____
"If your not dyin' your not tryin'."
"Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
Pettu
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Posted - 2006.07.02 17:46:00 -
[36]
/signed
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Recruiting
video |
Talthrus
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Posted - 2006.07.02 18:16:00 -
[37]
Just some basic math here:
If a 100 man fleet crashes for some reason and tries to log back on, the poor person that logs on last will experience a delay of 25 minutes trying to logon. Fun? Don't think so!
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ragewind
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Posted - 2006.07.02 22:21:00 -
[38]
the solotion is simple after logon in space you get emergansy warp make this exit at random deadspace spots or at planetart masses.
this stops a gang fleet apearing at there optimal for killing and the likes of frighters get pinalised as then end up warping to a ransom spot with no cover and no weber to get them back in to there gang fast
problem solved
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fix eves industrial sector!
advanced industrial ship |
Roddic
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Posted - 2006.07.02 23:42:00 -
[39]
If your so worried about getting raped by the other fleet, when logging back on, dont log back on. Of course if there was some way for CCP to monitor, and know when 1 fleet disconnected when the other diddn't and then also disconnect the unconnected fleet, things would even up nicely. Both fleets would have the same disadvantage of reconnecting, into a hostile envoronment.
i Still dont think the servers are up to the load, that they where purchased for.
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Extreme
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Posted - 2006.07.13 23:54:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Extreme on 13/07/2006 23:54:40
 Originally by: Talthrus
Just some basic math here:
If a 100 man fleet crashes for some reason and tries to log back on, the poor person that logs on last will experience a delay of 25 minutes trying to logon. Fun? Don't think so!
When a 100 man fleet crashes that means a server crashed, in that case the server should send all clients that are relogging and incoming to be send to random spots in that system.
When a fleet mass-logs off en mass relogging then the server should put them into a queue with a delay to enter the system perhaps depending on fleet size a certain time between 2 secs and 5 secs per client.
.
.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.07.14 00:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: ragewind
the solotion is simple after logon in space you get emergansy warp make this exit at random deadspace spots or at planetart masses.
Neat, so when I'm chasing someone they can log and get a free instasafe.
...
You REALLY need to think that one through.
Ben Derindar, the evidence is that one side or the other often crashes with minimal effect on the other side. Not what one would expect, but that IS how it works.
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Ben Derindar
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Posted - 2006.07.14 05:31:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Ben Derindar, the evidence is that one side or the other often crashes with minimal effect on the other side. Not what one would expect, but that IS how it works.
Maybe so, but not to the same side repeatedly unless there's some sploiting going on. Long term, sometimes it'll happen to me, other times it'll happen to them.
For that reason, I'm still prepared to chalk the consequences of the original idea up as an acceptable risk to flying in fleets/blobs/whatever.
/Ben
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Sakura Yoshimitsu
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Posted - 2006.07.17 08:12:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Sakura Yoshimitsu on 17/07/2006 08:12:13
This really does need to be taken care of.
I like forcing the relogers to be cloaked for 30 seconds or thereabouts and not being able to unclock and have the same penalties for uncloaking when they do uncloak. They should however be allowed to warp while cloaked.
edit: this cloak cannot be undone by proximity.
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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.17 08:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sakura Yoshimitsu
Edited by: Sakura Yoshimitsu on 17/07/2006 08:12:13
This really does need to be taken care of.
I like forcing the relogers to be cloaked for 30 seconds or thereabouts and not being able to unclock and have the same penalties for uncloaking when they do uncloak. They should however be allowed to warp while cloaked.
edit: this cloak cannot be undone by proximity.
Nice, I can relog every 30 seconds and get a super cloak that is impossible for anyone to remove! COOL!
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Sakura Yoshimitsu
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Posted - 2006.07.17 08:31:00 -
[45]
And you can't do anything. I think thats fair.
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Cathandra
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Posted - 2006.07.17 08:44:00 -
[46]
Um.. let's see.. complete invincibility except from smartbombs.. and still being able to move.. and it won't even go away if something is right on top of me.. and applies to indies/freighters/capital ships/mining barges etc.. yep definitely not exploitable at all 
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Dred 'Morte
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.17 10:51:00 -
[47]
All of these suggestions are flawed and have horrible secondary effects that affect both CCPs vision of EVE and realism. This is not going to happen, I assure you. If it does, I'm leaving the game, and I don't even PvP. (I do PvE)
NOT SIGNED
Signature made by Mr Floppykickners |
vinnymcg
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.07.17 17:01:00 -
[48]
A Logon trap is an exploit and i think everyone including CCP would agree on that even if they haven't made it official.
Thankfully i haven't come across a logon trap yet but i would assume that the players using this exploit would get a slap on the wrist. Has anybody tried petitioning about these *****. I think a fair punishment for this would be the offending fleet spontaneously blowing up followed by a message saying.
"this is a day you will never forget you have just encountered a Black Hole"
I'm not sure about the queuing idea when in a mass login, but maybe when the petition system if fixed they could use that to report a logon trap and all ships and fittings should be returned to the victim
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Maya Rkell
Corsets and Carebears
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Posted - 2006.07.17 17:07:00 -
[49]
Originally by: vinnymcg
A Logon trap is an exploit and i think everyone including CCP would agree on that even if they haven't made it official.
There is no "unofficial". It is not, and that's the end of it. Dosn't mean it's not a problem, but it's not an exploit.
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Mihail d'Amour
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Posted - 2006.07.17 18:53:00 -
[50]
It is certainly exploiting a behavior of the servers to circumvent game mechanics. So, it is an exploit. I concur with Maya that whether or not it is 'official' is not relevant. It simply is.
From Webster's - exploit v. To make use of selfishly or unethically.
As for the original idea,
/signed - with a strong recommendation to use random off-grid 3rd warp-off spots for returning ships instead of the original dropped location. And do not restrict to 0.0. The mild inconvenience this causes for a legitimately dropped connection is partially remedied by the safety of getting to warp into a random off-grid safespot. The inconvenience of a login queue in Jita may actually move some people out of these over-populated systems.
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In nomine Domine, quod erat malum |
Extreme
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.28 17:42:00 -
[51]
I wish a dev can respond
.
.
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vinnymcg
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.07.28 18:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Extreme
I wish a dev can respond
Do they ever respond???
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Digiblast
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.28 19:29:00 -
[53]
NOT Signed.
ASCN and Axe just support the threats about changeing Local chat like how Alliance chat does.
But then you whould never engage anything whould you muwhahahahahah Because you never know if the enemy is logged on or not.
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Digiblast
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.28 19:34:00 -
[54]
I remember back few years or months ccp banned few players for log on traps. But that was because they logout where the assoult was going to happen.
So logging in and then warp to the battle isent a Exploit.
And That has CCP confirmed. Maybe they have allowed the other thing again I don't know.
BUT YAY TO LOG ON TRAPS MWUAHAHAHAHA
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Red Ochre
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Posted - 2006.07.29 22:13:00 -
[55]
the simpler solution one that is already in use on disconnects, simply warp the client ship to the starting station on login. login, in warp, warp to station, trapper *****es and moans.
no mess, no fuss |
Torqumanda
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.29 22:42:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Extreme
CCP you can fix this fleet-mass-login-'feature'/exploit very simple.
SOLUTION
When more than an X-amount of clients logon at the same time (say more than 5 clients) in a (0.0) system then the server will put these clients into a queue.
Say 1 client per 15 seconds
This should do the job
maybe they should bring in a random log in
so say 10 ships all log out at gate A
when they log in they are randomly scattered through out the system and appear at random planets alone so they got to regroup before they can attack someone
i belive this solution would sort out the saddo's that do this
Trust No One ( especially your so called friends and corp mates ) |
Torqumanda
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.29 22:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Torqumanda
Originally by: Extreme
CCP you can fix this fleet-mass-login-'feature'/exploit very simple.
SOLUTION
When more than an X-amount of clients logon at the same time (say more than 5 clients) in a (0.0) system then the server will put these clients into a queue.
Say 1 client per 15 seconds
This should do the job
maybe they should bring in a random log in
so say 10 ships all log out at gate A
when they log in they are randomly scattered through out the system and appear at random planets alone so they got to regroup before they can attack someone
i belive this solution would sort out the saddo's that do this
well that will teach me not to read the thread before posting LOL
Trust No One ( especially your so called friends and corp mates ) |
Mr Li
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Posted - 2006.08.01 02:14:00 -
[58]
Log on trapping is NOT an ambush. If you want to ambush people play Battlefield 2 where camouflage matters. In the vacuum of space the only way to hide from scanners and visual contact is cloaking. Cloak your fleet and I'd call that an ambush.
The devs pride themselves on the immersiveness of Eve. There are rules against breaking immersion such as staying in character on the forums. Log on traps breaks the immersion. Logging off, imho is not a game mechanic, it's a necessity, players have to log off. Using this necessity of any game to "surprise" an enemy fleet is like sprinkling your fleet with magic fairy dust that makes players disappear in the local chat list and from visual contact. afaik, there is no magic fairy dust BPO seeded into the Eve market. Something should be done to prevent log on traps, but all of the solutions put forth are too problematic. It seems as if the only soultion may be similar to that of getting owned by concord. There is no code to enforce surviving concord impossible (improbable, yes; impossible, no). Log on traps could be fall under the same type of enforcement. If it happens, petition it. Exploit petitions, afaik get priority over others. CCP ought to be able to see when a large amount corp/alliance mates logged onto the same system to engage in combat.
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Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.01 02:56:00 -
[59]
Torqumanda, that works. I was having a similar thought.
WHENEVER a large number of ships login, scatter them across the system (at safes). A login trap is scattered and will give the victim warning and a good chance to escape. A fleet logging back in after a crash will have a chance to regroup.
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Karina Harington
Port Royal Independent Kontractors
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.01 09:45:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Mr Li
Log on trapping is NOT an ambush. If you want to ambush people play Battlefield 2 where camouflage matters. In the vacuum of space the only way to hide from scanners and visual contact is cloaking. Cloak your fleet and I'd call that an ambush.
I didn't realise cloaking removed you from Local. Oh, wait...
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