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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nimrod vanHall
Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda
92
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Posted - 2014.07.17 07:28:00 -
[61] - Quote
Fix Lag wrote:Voted goons
Was disappointed with the lack of checkbox
No checkbox no poll!
btw I voted goons as well, but would settle for having the mittani kicked from goons. |
Hra Neuvosto
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
275
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Posted - 2014.07.17 07:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
Kawaii, OP-chan. |
Mithandra
Serene Vendetta Brawls Deep
92
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Posted - 2014.07.17 08:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
All of them
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Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical Ineluctable.
411
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Posted - 2014.07.17 08:14:00 -
[64] - Quote
Talas Dir wrote:Stoseph Stuarts wrote:Talas Dir wrote:Stoseph Stuarts wrote: Getting rid of NA. would not only screw over NC. but most of the N3 coalition. Even better Exactly ;) if all the renters in that renter program stood up they could claim a part of sov null for themselves, they just feel scared to because they're renters. They need someone to show them they're actually stronger than those who oppress them ;) I think you misunderstand me. Renter scum are a part of what is making null boring and stagnant. It would be an absolute dream if the major blocs one day just decided "**** it" and drive the renters out of null, but this won't happen for a number of different reasons. I'd rather see new alliances and coalitions spring up that can hold their own, but it's nearly impossible with how things are right now.
Nah renters arent boring. Renters fight more than most of the actual ******* sovholders. Go into a renter nullsec system and theyve got a good chance of fighting within 5-10mins while they grow some balls.
Goons however just sit in station and call backup.(not just goons but hey GrrGoonss lets single them out) |
Amarr Citizen 1312151005
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
44
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Posted - 2014.07.17 08:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
grrr goons? |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1903
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Posted - 2014.07.17 08:36:00 -
[66] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Corporation, Alliance & Organization Discussions. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
18
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Posted - 2014.07.17 13:47:00 -
[67] - Quote
Nimrod vanHall wrote:Fix Lag wrote:Voted goons
Was disappointed with the lack of checkbox No checkbox no poll! btw I voted goons as well, but would settle for having the mittani kicked from goons.
Haha I would love to see the mittani kicked also, no one man should have all the power that he does especially in a game. Yes it is a sandbox but when anyone else wants to play the sandbox to the fullest they either have to get his permission or his counterparts on the PL/N3 side.
Might as well just burn them all hey? ;) |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5371
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Posted - 2014.07.17 17:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
I thought it would be funny for Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere to suddenly see their renter backbone sovless. Voted for goons mk 3. The Paradox |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar
726
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Posted - 2014.07.17 19:03:00 -
[69] - Quote
I vote for "Grand alliance for the development of the ideology of psssshhhhh"
I just need to form it first. I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |
Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.17 22:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:I vote for "Grand alliance for the development of the ideology of psssshhhhh"
I just need to form it first. And you'll need to take some sov somehow :P |
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Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.17 23:07:00 -
[71] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:I thought it would be funny for Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere to suddenly see their renter backbone sovless. Voted for goons mk 3. Can't wait to see the results from your Deklein moon probing/mapping #CSAA Hunting |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
438
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Posted - 2014.07.17 23:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
Stoseph Stuarts wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Stoseph Stuarts wrote: It's talking like that that makes people scared to actually fight for what they want, this is a game afterall so why should you play under someone's rules that aren't actually the game developers?
You misunderstand. If they could take sov on their own, they wouldn't be renters in the first place. The reason they play under someone else's rules is because this is a sandbox. The rules are whatever you can enforce with your military might. The various nullsec blocs can enforce the rule that if you want to live there, you have to pay them. That is what I am saying. The current null blocs can only enforce it because they scare people into thinking they can't take on their 'military might' the truth of the matter is without the renters supplying them with their 'military might' they wouldn't have anything to enforce their rules with. All it would take is a few months of attritional warfare and I'm sure either the N3 side or CFC sides would fall, maybe even both. The renter side of the CFC is anything but goonswarm federation itself. The alliances that are a part of the CFC are just the puppets of goons so you could say they are goons version of northern associates, why do you think the renter alliance we see is so small? My theory also explains these financial scandals alliances like fatal ascension are having, I wonder who recieved the Isk? ;)
How do you wage a campaign of attrition warfare against someone who controls the stations that your assets are in and can lock you out by pushing a button? Where do the renters get the money to fund their campaign of attrition once they lose access to the space they were renting (as in they literally don't have places to put their ships because none of the stations will let them dock)?
This is also assuming that your hypothethetical rental corp is actually a PvP juggernaut in sheep's clothing and that there are enough of them to present a credible threat to 1,000 man fleets. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
333
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Posted - 2014.07.18 00:03:00 -
[73] - Quote
And not to mention that the renters will be fighting against people who have engaged in slogging Sov warfare for years and are well practiced on the logistic side of things and know how to make it as miserable as possible for the enemy. |
Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.18 00:19:00 -
[74] - Quote
Who said it would be just renters that would fight against the big null alliances and coalitions. I'm sure the more experienced groups would be interested in sticking it to the null alliances especially groups such as MoA and BL. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
333
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Posted - 2014.07.18 00:31:00 -
[75] - Quote
MOA is too busy crying about us squatting in "their" npc null systems and devaluing Mordu's Legion LP by goonrushing the missions and BL aren't interested in dealing with the slog of SOV warfare. As soon as the goodfights evaporated (and they would, because that's how it's done) so too would BL.
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Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.18 00:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:MOA is too busy crying about us squatting in "their" npc null systems and devaluing Mordu's Legion LP by goonrushing the missions and BL aren't interested in dealing with the slog of SOV warfare. As soon as the goodfights evaporated (and they would, because that's how it's done) so too would BL.
I'm sure MOA would be interested in getting revenge for you guys squatting in ''their'' npc null systems in some shape or form. As for BL not being interested in SOV warfare i'm sure if it provided good fights without them actually having to hold the SOV they would show up. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
333
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Posted - 2014.07.18 00:42:00 -
[77] - Quote
It's becoming increasingly clear that you have zero practical experience on any aspect of SOV warfare. |
Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.18 00:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:It's becoming increasingly clear that you have zero practical experience on any aspect of SOV warfare. Haha I know how the current SOV warfare works but that only lasts as long as people stay in the current sized groups they are in and use the same tactics they're using, sure the grinding of structures takes a while with say stealth bombers but imagine if you managed to pull together a 1500 man bomber fleet. I wonder how long it would take 1500 bombers to kill an SBU ;) |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
438
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:04:00 -
[79] - Quote
Stoseph Stuarts wrote:Arkady Romanov wrote:It's becoming increasingly clear that you have zero practical experience on any aspect of SOV warfare. Haha I know how the current SOV warfare works but that only lasts as long as people stay in the current sized groups they are in and use the same tactics they're using, sure the grinding of structures takes a while with say stealth bombers but imagine if you managed to pull together a 1500 man bomber fleet. I wonder how long it would take 1500 bombers to kill an SBU ;)
The idea of putting together a 1500 man bomber fleet is patently absurd and shows how little you understand about what you are discussing. I mean, don't get me wrong, the CFC could do it if we wanted to but we have no reason to do that. For almost anything you would use bombers for, 150 will do it just as well as 1,500 and you're looking at causing huge burnout among your line members (and by a similar measure, 1,500 bombers in one place aren't dramatically harder to shut down than 150)
The other issue is that bomber fleets grinding down structures can generate timers, but can't actually do anything in the fights that determine victory. Suppose your bomber fleets attacked on of our systems. We could completely ignore them while they online SBUs, then let them spend a week bumping things through various timers, and then just drop a stratop fleet on the last one and all their effort would have been wasted because they can't actually fight us.
This is pretty much what we mean when we say 'zero practical experience'.
PS going by outward appearnces MOA pretty much lives to nurse their hate-boner for us but they're a 1,500 man alliance with no logistical backbone so that's pretty much limited to dropping dumb ratters and getting camped into stations. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
333
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:11:00 -
[80] - Quote
Yeah thats MOA in a nutshell. Also, grinding Sov structures with 1500 people would take just as long as with 150 because of tidi. Except you **** off 10 times as many people.
We would let you spend all week grinding every single timer, and then rep it in half an hour with a bunch of carriers. Or maybe just play games with the TCU, or set the timers to an unfavorable timezone so you had to alarm clock for every one of them. Or probably all of the above because we are bastards. |
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Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:16:00 -
[81] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:
The idea of putting together a 1500 man bomber fleet is patently absurd and shows how little you understand about what you are discussing. I mean, don't get me wrong, the CFC could do it if we wanted to but we have no reason to do that. For almost anything you would use bombers for, 150 will do it just as well as 1,500 and you're looking at causing huge burnout among your line members (and by a similar measure, 1,500 bombers in one place aren't dramatically harder to shut down than 150)
The other issue is that bomber fleets grinding down structures can generate timers, but can't actually do anything in the fights that determine victory. Suppose your bomber fleets attacked on of our systems. We could completely ignore them while they online SBUs, then let them spend a week bumping things through various timers, and then just drop a stratop fleet on the last one and all their effort would have been wasted because they can't actually fight us.
This is pretty much what we mean when we say 'zero practical experience'.
PS going by outward appearnces MOA pretty much lives to nurse their hate-boner for us but they're a 1,500 man alliance with no logistical backbone so that's pretty much limited to dropping dumb ratters and getting camped into stations.
Ok well lets say the 1500 man bomber fleet wasn't meant to be a permanent entity but was a temporary entity to back the ideas of one man. The only purpose of that fleet would be to then just destroy any structures they came across, and when it came down to the actual SOV structure defensive fleets for the structures that had been put in place of the old ones it would be down to the more established groups who placed the new structures to form up and defend them. |
Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:22:00 -
[82] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Yeah thats MOA in a nutshell. Also, grinding Sov structures with 1500 people would take just as long as with 150 because of tidi. Except you **** off 10 times as many people.
We would let you spend all week grinding every single timer, and then rep it in half an hour with a bunch of carriers. Or maybe just play games with the TCU, or set the timers to an unfavorable timezone so you had to alarm clock for every one of them. Or probably all of the above because we are bastards. That's the marvel of letting CCP know where and when with how many people you are going to fighting/attacking structures. Also if enough systems were reinforced then Goonswarm and allies would most likely not be able to defend all of the systems meaning potentially one or two could lose SOV initially.
You then have to think about if someone, maybe myself, can rally so many people from so many different areas of the game to fight entities like the CFC or PL/N3 how many of the alliances would stay loyal to the main alliance within those coalitions. When people think of the CFC they think of Goonswarm as my poll shows and when they think of PL/N3 they only really hate PL, so in theory if either of those coalitions were to become targeted by nearly all of eve then they would only really like to see those two alliances gone. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
333
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:27:00 -
[83] - Quote
You are welcome to try. But I doubt you'd have any better luck than the ones who came before you.
Harry Forever at least managed to become a scourge of our cyno alts. That's your high water mark. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
438
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:31:00 -
[84] - Quote
If you think Sov warfare is as easy as getting some dudes together for a weekend and rolling around blowing up any structures you come across I have some disappointing news for you. Have fun hauling, anchoring, and onlining SBUs across the breadth of Deklein I guess.
Ditto if you think forming a massive coalition capable of taking on one of the established powers is as easy as going "Grr [X]" on the EVE-O forums. |
Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:45:00 -
[85] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:You are welcome to try. But I doubt you'd have any better luck than the ones who came before you.
Harry Forever at least managed to become a scourge of our cyno alts. That's your high water mark. I've not actually heard of him, i'll have to look into him. If I don't try though of course I have no chance at succeeding :P |
Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:If you think Sov warfare is as easy as getting some dudes together for a weekend and rolling around blowing up any structures you come across I have some disappointing news for you. Have fun hauling, anchoring, and onlining SBUs across the breadth of Deklein I guess.
Ditto if you think forming a massive coalition capable of taking on one of the established powers is as easy as going "Grr [X]" on the EVE-O forums. I know what the problems that are going to have to be faced are that's why this is going to be a long term project and i'm not necessarily going for Goonswarm for this. This poll was to test the field on who the public would be most interested in fighting at the current moment in eve history.
Also as for Deklein who said anything about Deklein, if this was to work you would want to take the regions around low sec first so that it makes it near impossible for any Goonswarm logistics to take place. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
438
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Posted - 2014.07.18 01:56:00 -
[87] - Quote
I mean, I'm definitely not saying you shouldn't do this. We're on a pretty long dry spell between wars so more stuff to that involves shooting ships with players inside them is great news. I'm just saying that people with vastly more resources, connections, and experience have tried to destroy us many times and we're still here.
Your most dangerously wrong assumption is that our coalition members are slaves and that if you just pull the wool back a little bit they will realize that the power was in them all along and completely abandon their allegiance to the CFC. |
Arkady Romanov
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
333
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Posted - 2014.07.18 02:06:00 -
[88] - Quote
If you want to bust open Sov null, your best bet is to try HERO space as they are the newest, and therefore most likely to make mistakes that you can exploit. They also don't have the super capital backbone we and N3PL have, and *may* not have the political connections to call in either bloc for support if you somehow actually manage to start taking space.
Your only real chance for success is to find a piece of space which is of no material or strategic value and is currently occupied by a scarecrow. Basically what HERO did to -A- space. |
Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.18 02:35:00 -
[89] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:I mean, I'm definitely not saying you shouldn't do this. We're on a pretty long dry spell between wars so more stuff to that involves shooting ships with players inside them is great news. I'm just saying that people with vastly more resources, connections, and experience have tried to destroy us many times and we're still here.
Your most dangerously wrong assumption is that our coalition members are slaves and that if you just pull the wool back a little bit they will realize that the power was in them all along and completely abandon their allegiance to the CFC. I'm not going to spend much time on our internal politics but the TL:DR is that it doesn't work like that at all and the fundamental concept that makes the CFC work is that we will show up to help each other. If you're going to make plans to attack any individual alliance in the CFC, makes plans to deal with the entirety of the CFC because that's what you're going to be up against should you prove to be a real threat. Haha yeah that's one of my main reasons for doing this man, it will create content that most people want but aren't actually going out to create. They're just posting about the stagnation instead. If Goons/CFC were to be the target I'm sure I could pull some strings I've got up my sleeve ;) (still probably not as good connections as those that have been before me but might be in the right places to get things moving).
I don't assume your coalition members are slaves i'm just saying there's the chance those groups are only in the CFC because of the protection the combined forces can provide if needed. I'm saying if there's enough doubt in the power of Goonswarm to protect their own space maybe the CFC members will notice and throw down their CFC ties. Even if it's to create a different coalition it would still be better then the reputation given to the CFC, in my opinion anyways.
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Stoseph Stuarts
IIII Inc. The Foundation To Protect Endangered CareBears
21
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Posted - 2014.07.18 02:37:00 -
[90] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:If you want to bust open Sov null, your best bet is to try HERO space as they are the newest, and therefore most likely to make mistakes that you can exploit. They also don't have the super capital backbone we and N3PL have, and *may* not have the political connections to call in either bloc for support if you somehow actually manage to start taking space.
Your only real chance for success is to find a piece of space which is of no material or strategic value and is currently occupied by a scarecrow. Basically what HERO did to -A- space. Now that -A- have lost their SOV I don't really see any areas run by smaller entities that wouldn't have the support of the bigger coalitions. This is why in my eyes something needs to be done to downsize these coalitions, if this happened we would see more null sec wars and conflict creating the content people want to get them out of these major stagnation periods. |
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