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Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 17:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Level 4 missions have all but had the good drops removed. Now there is going to be a refining change to salvaging. Missions are being made more time consuming and there is no end to the push push push by CCP to move folks into Low/Null. How does this = a sandbox? Please stop pushing. Do something useful like... Make dedicated Ammo bays on Marauders, or fix the Nestor. Either fix missioning or quit pushing high sec out of the game. |

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28647
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 18:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah, I blame it all on Soundwave & Co.

DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |

Paranoid Loyd
882
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 18:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
I exclusively operate in hi-sec, I do not feel like I am being pushed out.
It is not CCP that is pushing you out, it is all of your fellow mission runners, doing nothing but running missions...
The plot is to have fun by interacting with other people.
Maybe you misunderstand the "Plot"? "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |

Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.07.17 19:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
"The Plot" is to have a game worth playing. I might be wrong, but there are a lot of other folks interacting and having fun in High sec too.
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
535
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 19:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Missions are not the way to have fun in hi sec. |

Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.07.17 19:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Don't get me wrong, PVP and corps are great fun. I don't spend a ton of time playing so for me, interactions are nice, but I spend a lot of time on training. The PVP will be a lot less fun with a market that isn't made up of individuals, and a broken industrial bed for the creators of the ships you fly PVP in.
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Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 19:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Missions might not be fun for some people. Mining might not be fun for some people. Marketing might not be fun for some people. PVP might not be fun for some people. Industry might not be fun for some people. The idea here is that all the pieces fit together to provide a gameplay that you can enjoy. Whether it is in FW, Incursions, Missioning, Indi, or becoming the next big corp. in Null. Even taking out AP Indi ships on the way to a hub is fun. But you had the option to choose a play style that fit your gaming parameters and your times. Options create interest and gameplay dynamics. What I'm seeing as of late from CCP are option limiting gameplay. I'm not sure that is how a sandbox is supposed to work! |

Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1125
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 19:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Unfortunately the Plot has been the dismantling of High Sec mission running for quite a few years now. Starting with a few Nerfs to bounties, loot drops, mission rewards and agent standings. Now we are getting a new Nerf to rewards in the name of industry (Sound familiar; Drone Ore removal was for industry as well).
Next we will get the common troll response with 'Marauders were a buff'; Actually no they weren't I have a three perfectly trained Maurader/BS pilots and I still do missions faster in my nerfed Mach with its nerfed TE-IIs than any of the Maurader models. So it wasn't a buff so much as a misdirection.
I am not saying it is a conspiracy, or that there is some evil overlord manipulating the outcome of each successive iteration to get rid of mission running as anything but a time wasting activity that allows your undocked ship to be fired upon.
But now that I mention it???
Yeah perhaps we just didn't know sandbox meant 'Everyone PLEX to PVP, and the rest of you go play a different game.'
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |

Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 19:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yep Yep... I mean don't get me wrong. I'm not looking down at PVP. I like PVP as much as I like the game. But... I like the game. All the aspects of the game. I think what I'm trying to understand is why would you limit folks that obviously enjoy the gameplay they've been provide with.
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Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 19:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
I mean there are a ton of "I shoot you/you shoot me ", games out there. What I enjoy(ed) in EVE was/is the dynamics between indi and corps. PVP and the supply and demand. Those are bits other games don't provide and CCP has provided us with some of the best dynamics in any game platform. Now I fear that the end is near. Going by the wayside are the dynamics and in it's place are a lot of lowbrow pushing and shoving. I kinda enjoy the choices of dynamic gameplay more than just a few parts now seemingly focused areas.
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Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 20:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
I feel that moving the game into a mainstream venue and losing the unique dynamics will eventually cause the player base to move on. I may be wrong, but I am starting to feel like the dynamic qualities that make EVE fun for me to play are diminishing to the point I'm not enjoying it quiet as much. I think CCP would be more inclined to embrace the gameplay that made it, and attracted the folks here. If you want cookie cutter builds and PVP better than dynamic gameplay you are not limited in game choices. If you want a rich unique gameplay environment; EVE has been all that for some time now. I would very much like to see that far into the future and I fear it will not be the case. I welcome anyone to express things the way they see it. I for one am hoping beyond hope that they manage to stay with what makes this game special to me. I like the friends and devs I have here. I enjoy the fact that CCP has listened to the player base in the past and has not dismissed everything that has been asked. I luv the new graphics, new ship choices and the new ideas. I am not particularly driven to be told what makes the game important. I will be sad if the direction continues to go down the slippery path, but I'll live. It's a game. When and if it stops being enjoyable for me to play I'll leave happily enjoying the memories of the time spent here previously. |

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
60
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 21:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:Yeah perhaps we just didn't know sandbox meant 'Everyone PLEX to PVP, and the rest of you go play a different game.'
If so people will leave. Another stupid CCP move, pushing directly to combat PvP. Because of reason...or sandbox. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |

Higgs Foton
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
157
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Posted - 2014.07.17 21:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
LVL 4 agents need to be transported to low sec systems. *Snip* Removed trolling part of the post. ISD Ezwal.*Snip* *Snip*-áPlease refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.*Snip* *Snip*-áRemoved part of the post for not having enough pssssshhhhhh. ISD Ezwal.-á*Snip* |

Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
414
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 21:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Well, this is a PVP-centric game. Regardless if you think so, or not. If you don't like the changes, join Faction Warfare and run FW missions. you will make just as much isk and earn 10 times the amount of LP per hour.
For instance, running Caldari or Minmatar FW missions in a stealth bomber can net me 2-3 bil isk in about 10 hours of mission running. The 2-3 bil isk is taking into account the LP to ISK ratio. The risk is fairly negligible, and if I do lose a ship, I'm not out that much isk. |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2159
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 21:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Higgs Foton wrote:LVL 4 agents need to be transported to low sec systems.
And that would fix exactly what? You think shiny marauders would flock to nearest lowsec chasing after them? Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 22:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's not that I don't think this is a PVP centric game or whatever. Lol... The options that give this game are being minimized. FW is fine, but I think you missed my meaning. Being forced to choose an activity verses having a choice diminishes the game no matter what you choose to have fun with. By the way FW severely limits you're toons ability to comfortably transverse the parts of the universe on that character. |

Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1130
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 22:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
The thing I notice the most is how PVP-centric players have such a limited scope of what PVP means.
If you can't chest pump after ganking the 2 guys that hopped into your trap of 15 it's not PVP. If you can't harvest tears in local/forums after your 20 man gang destroyed the freighter in a .5 system, it's not PVP. And there's always the complimentary tears of popping a Retriever in belt with a 1mil ISK glass cannon, otherwise it's not PVP.
If you logged in and are making ISK it's PVP and if you made more than they did you may have won. PVP centric player have proven over and over again they are the most Risk averse group in EVE, when it's not heavily in their favour they don't engage, and when its marginal they don't engage, when it overwhelmingly in their favour then they engage, and go chest pound in the forums of how the other players in EVE are all risk-averse pu55ie5
And Estella; it's a Sandbox-centric game becoming a PVP-centric game that will lose all of its Sandbox-centric players as soon as it becomes a completely PVP-centric game. If it was PVP-centric we would have arenas, we would have rules of engagement maintained by software, and most of all I would be playing something else. I find no joy in beating the other guys imaginary ship with my imaginary ship, there is no challenge in it to me and the miniscule reward is not worth the time and energy. Not that I never shoot at other players, I just don't log in with that sole intent.
The wastebasket suggestion of the decade, LVL-4 to low sec just means all the LVl-4 runners would go do incursions (or whatever else), Incursions to Low sec just means the Incursion runners would go to the next highest denominator while still avoiding the risk of running into a 15 man gang wanting to kill a 3 man gang without risk. Keep moving things to low sec and you will have a lot of unused content and still no juicy killmails.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
60
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 22:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:Well, this is a PVP-centric game. Regardless if you think so, or not. If you don't like the changes, join Faction Warfare and run FW missions. you will make just as much isk and earn 10 times the amount of LP per hour.
Ofc it is PvP centric, but let's not force people to activity that they don't want to be part of. Its sandbox after all, a tool to create my own story. If i want to be red crosses killer, why not? I can still be ganked. Why you people count everything ISK/hour? Games supposed to be fun, remember?
EvE has huge potential but after my 1,5 year here it's really shallow. Illusion of complexity. As if Dev forsake every activity but combat PvP. Such a waste of resources. Remove PvE (as if there was some) and people will leave. There were many strictly PvP focused games that don't last. If they think people will magically draft to PvP they are wrong. Sandbox should create opportuninties not constrict them. Bacon tastes so much better when it's marinated in vegan tears.-á |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
537
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 01:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Higgs Foton wrote:LVL 4 agents need to be transported to low sec systems. And that would fix exactly what? You think shiny marauders would flock to nearest lowsec chasing after them? No, but rebalanced black ops battleships might. |

Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 01:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Although this wasn't about other options. It seems clear that there are lots of other options that don't limit our current play and also enhance the current gameplay. I hope the devs read this and find a work around before they strip this wonderful game of it's rich diversity even more. Maybe if we hope enough they'll continue to provide lots of fun for all. Or perhaps we will meet again in another game? |

Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
1108
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 01:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Well, this is a PVP-centric game. Regardless if you think so, or not. If you don't like the changes, join Faction Warfare and run FW missions. you will make just as much isk and earn 10 times the amount of LP per hour.
Ofc it is PvP centric, but let's not force people to activity that they don't want to be part of. Its sandbox after all, a tool to create my own story. If i want to be red crosses killer, why not? I can still be ganked. Why you people count everything ISK/hour? Games supposed to be fun, remember? EvE has huge potential but after my 1,5 year here it's really shallow. Illusion of complexity. As if Dev forsake every activity but combat PvP. Such a waste of resources. Remove PvE (as if there was some) and people will leave. There were many strictly PvP focused games that didn't last. If they think people will magically draft to PvP they are wrong. Sandbox should create opportuninties not constrict them.
I'm going to hazard a guess that 90% of the readers of this thread have not done more than 10% of the available combat PVE in the game.
A basic and probably incomplete checklist
level 4s x different race agents. cosmos missions (often quite unique to location or region) ded complexes - 1 through 8 + 10 x 5 races (drones have some gaps) all the epic arcs c1 - c6 wormholes unrateds x 5 races combat ladars x 5 races anomalies x 5 races belt farming / cherry picking for officers mordus lowsec farming incursions + incursions in low level 5 missions x different race agents. clone tag farming
Here is another observation, people that move characters to nullsec or lowsec tend to keep playing the game longer than people who "level their raven", ie a significant part of the cost of a player to CCP is the acquisition cost, and the longer the sub lasts, the more profitable the player is to CCP.
Another observation, its plainly possible to move to nullsec, PVE all day and never lose a spaceship, and never have to fight other players. The bar to entry for that is so ridiculously low its not funny, now that 100s of small corps hold individual systems in null. Since moving myself (and carefully optimizing my move by researching and thinking about it), I've done over 50 null ded complexes and 30 null ded complex escalations from anomalies without losing a spaceship running them.
IMO get over it, stop crying about it and stop discouraging players from attempting to conquer the real game with terrible whiny threads like this. |

Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 01:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
I've done at least 90% of what you mentioned and again... I'm not trying to tell anybody anything as to what they can do. What I'm saying is... The previous possibilities are dwindling and the player base that is supportive of the current diminished options are being put out of play by being forced to follow other avenues as opposed to choosing their paths.
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Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 01:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
And I think making comments like "stupid and whiney" kinda goes a long way in proving my point. If you prefer not to have a forum to present views comfortably. Pleas don't post to my lil thread. |

Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 02:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:Well, this is a PVP-centric game. Regardless if you think so, or not. If you don't like the changes, join Faction Warfare and run FW missions. you will make just as much isk and earn 10 times the amount of LP per hour.
Ofc it is PvP centric, but let's not force people to activity that they don't want to be part of. Its sandbox after all, a tool to create my own story. If i want to be red crosses killer, why not? I can still be ganked. Why you people count everything ISK/hour? Games supposed to be fun, remember? EvE has huge potential but after my 1,5 year here it's really shallow. Illusion of complexity. As if Dev forsake every activity but combat PvP. Such a waste of resources. Remove PvE (as if there was some) and people will leave. There were many strictly PvP focused games that didn't last. If they think people will magically draft to PvP they are wrong. Sandbox should create opportuninties not constrict them. I'm going to hazard a guess that 90% of the readers of this thread have not done more than 10% of the available combat PVE in the game. A basic and probably incomplete checklist level 4s x different race agents. cosmos missions (often quite unique to location or region) ded complexes - 1 through 8 + 10 x 5 races (drones have some gaps) all the epic arcs c1 - c6 wormholes unrateds x 5 races combat ladars x 5 races anomalies x 5 races belt farming / cherry picking for officers mordus lowsec farming incursions + incursions in low level 5 missions x different race agents. clone tag farming Here is another observation, people that move characters to nullsec or lowsec tend to keep playing the game longer than people who "level their raven", ie a significant part of the cost of a player to CCP is the acquisition cost, and the longer the sub lasts, the more profitable the player is to CCP. Another observation, its plainly possible to move to nullsec, PVE all day and never lose a spaceship, and never have to fight other players. The bar to entry for that is so ridiculously low its not funny, now that 100s of small corps hold individual systems in null. Since moving myself (and carefully optimizing my move by researching and thinking about it), I've done over 50 null ded complexes and 30 null ded complex escalations from anomalies without losing a spaceship running them. IMO get over it, stop crying about it and stop discouraging players from attempting to conquer the real game with terrible whiny threads like this. 1. Lvl 4 missions still already drop the same poor loot and will upcoming have a poor refine! 2. COSMOS and Factions missions really mess with standings. 3. Wormholes are private environments that have a lot of fun and interesting gameplay, but.. depending on what you want to do in a wormhole it may be quiet daunting...especially for an entry character. 4. Unrated sites... Well lets just say they tried making scan sites better but failed at high sec. 5. Cherry picking offices... Heheee yeah, best of luck to you as a solo pilot... 6. Mordus farming- Battleships being heavily farmed by groups even with Dreadnaughts... 7. Incursions- Great if you can find a good group! 8. Level 5 missions.- Heavily farmed by specific groups who don't particularly like having others work them in there area. 9. DED plexes... Good fun. Very small rewards at present in High sec. 10. Epic arcs.. Lots of work great rewards. Many not even offered still and a lot of time to complete thru all 4 in High sec.And the two that branch into low. And the one offered in Low.
In closing please don't post on this thread if you feel you are too good to do so. I'd rather not hear from someone telling me what they feel in a condescending manor. If you can't express yourself without putting others down I don't care to hear your argument. |

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
976
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 02:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
TBH my mission alt has not bothered with loot except for cherry picking the odd known high value item (like the random 20 mill implant you sometimes get in the AE silo) and the odd "opportunity looting" of a battleship wreck is within 10 km of me in years.
I tried MTU looting and found that if I filtered the MTU and took 500k plus items only I could get 90% of the value of a missions loot without making multiple trips however it still worked out better ISK per hour to blitz as much as possible.
I do agree with level 3 and below and also with low ISK/LP level IV agents loot can be worthwhile.
My main concern with the reprocessing change is it is eliminating an entire industry. there are corps whose sole purpose is to salvage for people and reprocess teh loot. |

Jam Kirk
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 02:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Well, who needs indy anyway? Indy guys don't PVP. We can just wait for CCP to hand us more stuff like the "Gecko", without a BPC or BPO option. Our new ships can be gimmes like the "Leopard". lol |

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28648
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 02:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote: My main concern with the reprocessing change is it is eliminating an entire industry. there are corps whose sole purpose is to salvage for people and reprocess teh loot.
Same with the removal of Faction standing to anchor a POS in high security systems. Lot's of corps and players are being put out of business with that change as well.
DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |

Montey Haul
Republic University Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 02:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
While I'm not trying to give anyone a reason to be upset or trying to make any feel pigeon holed. I do think if options for play styles are left open... The fan base and the game will maintain the magic that brought many of us here. Grinding SP, grinding standings, Mining, and learning how to make useful marketable items.(And marketing them). From the top to the bottom all the facets make a lovely diamond. Take away facets and the diamond isn't as bright. I think all the pieces from PVP and throughout the game make it the game we all can agree we enjoy. No matter what endeavors or enterprise we find ourselves in. I'm just concerned that we are fast approaching a corner that if we go down that path... a lot more of the folks I enjoy this game with... won't be here to run with any longer. I hope I am wrong! I'd like to see the game around for a long time to come. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3275

|
Posted - 2014.07.18 06:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Quote:3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. Thread closed. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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