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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
573
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Posted - 2014.07.19 12:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
News Flash - Actions have consequences. Follow up at 11. |
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
48
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Posted - 2014.07.19 12:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Do not do any of the missions, even the storyline ones, that have you kill an opposing faction that isn't a pirate. Every mission has a little banner indicating the target, always check that before heading out. Like some have said though, Diplomacy will raise standings quite a bit. If you are really in a pickle there are places for each faction where you can turn in tags for rep, which can help quite a bit. Plus the SoE epic arc if you haven't done it can also help boost standing quite a bit. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4138
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Posted - 2014.07.19 14:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Zappity wrote:The whole standings mechanics could really use a makeover. Not accusing you of this, but as a general observation the whole "this could really use a makeover" is usually a statement that "things could be made easier'. No need to make things easier as he already has several viable options to correct things. The NPE could be made more explicit about these things so new players are more informed about the consequences of their choices, but the consequences don't need to be changed. You are exactly right. It should be made easier. I don't see that the complexity of the plan (and the compulsory grind that goes with it) add enough positive gameplay to justify the nuisance. Compare the plan with the sec status tags in which you acquire, take to a lowsec station, pay some isk and you're done.
Note that I'm not arguing for any change to consequences, just the mechanics to repair those consequences.
Now let's compare the Tags-4-Sec with datacenters.
I buy tags I warp to datacenter I open and instantly complete them.
Voila, Faction standings. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4138
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Posted - 2014.07.19 14:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:J'Poll wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:Zappity wrote:I don't understand why we can't buy faction standing like we can sec status. Forcing the grind is bad. You can. Yep. It is called datacenters. Think more elaborate, no need to get stuck on datacenters. Edit: another hint is that this requires social interaction, which is obviously not allowed in an MMO.
Uhm, OP already excluded mission sharing as he doesn't want to do it.
Funny part about it, faction standings are NEVER shared with missions. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4138
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Posted - 2014.07.19 14:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:I have to agree with the OP on this one. For something that can have fairly annoying consequences, the standings system is laughably obscure for a new player. Quote:This is an important mission, which will have significant impact on your faction standings. Simply changing that to 'Dude, if you complete this mission Amarr will love you but Minmatar will hate your guts and eventually shoot at you in their highsec space' would be an improvement.
Isn't that already completely clear by the icon that you are about to shoot Minmatar NPC in the mission.
AFAIK if I shoot a certain race / nationality long enough, they start to hate you. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4138
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Posted - 2014.07.19 14:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
Yossarian Toralen wrote:Eugene Kerner wrote:Screw that? Screw You! Path.etic Clown you are.
Edith says: training skills will do pathetic Clown no good because "raw Skills" count. Screw that! There are numerous warnings along the "mission briefings" for Clowns like you. Seeing as you are my first troll I believe you need a little attention and a bit of guidance. You obviously have a few issues that need to be sorted out. The English language, very dificult it is and I can tell you are working hard at it and probably don't even realise that you are being rude. When I say screw that about an activity, I'm not insulting you I'm merely conveying my dislike for said activity I'm sorry I found fault in a game that you hold so dear.
Just because YOU didn't do your research (I"ve missioned for my first 1.5 - 2 years and still have positive or near positive standings with all factions (Believe Gallente is lowest with -0.7 or so) because I knew how to mix them up to stay good with them) doesn't mean it is a fault in the game.
The info is already clearly there, both in game as well as player created guides and websites. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption Space Wolves Alliance
97
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Posted - 2014.07.19 14:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Yossarian Toralen wrote: Did I miss something along the way?
Yes, you missed the big red letters saying something along the lines of "This mission will have a significant effect on your standings with other factions" in the mission text.
Read the mission info when the agent gives it to you instead of just click festing through like a wow-tard. Its no ones fault (not even the games) but your own.
EvE has this fantasic ability to show users their own faults and fallacies where the game is near perfect for people who actually pay attention. Except mission pve and tidi...those are black spots imo =P |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
1276
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Posted - 2014.07.19 16:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
Yossarian Toralen wrote:Eugene Kerner wrote:Screw that? Screw You! Path.etic Clown you are.
Edith says: training skills will do pathetic Clown no good because "raw Skills" count. Screw that! There are numerous warnings along the "mission briefings" for Clowns like you. Seeing as you are my first troll I believe you need a little attention and a bit of guidance. You obviously have a few issues that need to be sorted out. The English language, very dificult it is and I can tell you are working hard at it and probably don't even realise that you are being rude. When I say screw that about an activity, I'm not insulting you I'm merely conveying my dislike for said activity I'm sorry I found fault in a game that you hold so dear.
Rest assured - it was entirely intentional. Your original post is a bad troll and you should feel terrible about it. Indeed English is not my first language, but then again I speak 4 more so...still screw You. TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Celise Katelo
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.07.19 16:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
.../blinks
Clearly the OP needs to pay more attention, but i can understand how this can happen. This game has so much information that at first i guess you ignore most of it & try to jump straight into the action, blindly playing like its a hack / slash (or WoW game).
"Red text = Warning please Read me" Working as intended
Perhaps the "Red text" should be glowing red & all flashy neons, or:
Flashy Lights - Animation |
Dave Stark
6653
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Posted - 2014.07.19 16:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Celise Katelo wrote:.../blinks Clearly the OP needs to pay more attention, but i can understand how this can happen. This game has so much information that at first i guess you ignore most of it & try to jump straight into the action, blindly playing like its a hack / slash (or WoW game). "Red text = Warning please Read me" Working as intended Perhaps the "Red text" should be glowing red & all flashy neons, or: Flashy Lights - Animation
most missions that give you a faction standings hit don't have red text to warn you of these things. at least, not the ones where the standings hit comes from the rats. |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
401
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Posted - 2014.07.19 19:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Personal attack post removed.
Forum rule 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1226
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Posted - 2014.07.19 19:54:00 -
[42] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Zappity wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Zappity wrote:The whole standings mechanics could really use a makeover. Not accusing you of this, but as a general observation the whole "this could really use a makeover" is usually a statement that "things could be made easier'. No need to make things easier as he already has several viable options to correct things. The NPE could be made more explicit about these things so new players are more informed about the consequences of their choices, but the consequences don't need to be changed. You are exactly right. It should be made easier. I don't see that the complexity of the plan (and the compulsory grind that goes with it) add enough positive gameplay to justify the nuisance. Compare the plan with the sec status tags in which you acquire, take to a lowsec station, pay some isk and you're done.
Note that I'm not arguing for any change to consequences, just the mechanics to repair those consequences. Now let's compare the Tags-4-Sec with datacenters. I buy tags I warp to datacenter I open and instantly complete them. Voila, Faction standings. Does that fully repair your standings against the faction? I thought they were one time only. I admit that I've never done it - I looked over the plan and decided to do something else instead. It looked awful.
Regardless, I'm quite sanguine about the faction mechanics. The upcoming removal of standings requirements from POS anchoring indicates that CCP is inclined toward good design rather than historical equity. I think they will continue to promote player-player consequence rather than player-NPC consequence and that this will flow into a revision of standings mechanics when they get around to it.
Not that I think that will be soon - they have bigger fish to fry. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28658
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Posted - 2014.07.19 20:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Zappity wrote: Does that fully repair your standings against the faction? I thought they were one time only. I admit that I've never done it - I looked over the plan and decided to do something else instead. It looked awful.
Which part looked awful?
The part where you can repair negative Faction standing easily and quickly or the part where you can boost positive Faction standing quickly and easily?
Anyway, time and time again 'The Plan' has been proven by the player base to be very effective.
Zappity wrote: Regardless, I'm quite sanguine about the faction mechanics. The upcoming removal of standings requirements from POS anchoring indicates that CCP is inclined toward good design rather than historical equity. I think they will continue to promote player-player consequence rather than player-NPC consequence and that this will flow into a revision of standings mechanics when they get around to it.
Not that I think that will be soon - they have bigger fish to fry.
In my opinion the main point of CCP removing POS Faction Standing requirements and opening up the rest of High Security to allow POS anchoring is to promote more PvP carnage with WarDecs, hopefully creating free publicity for CCP through the gaming news media.
Of course the destruction of player owned structures and ships should also help boost Industry, right?
DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
Gorinia Sanford
Big n Large
62
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Posted - 2014.07.19 21:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Train diplomacy to 5. It will help a great deal in mitigating the harm you've done to your standings. From there some of your options aren't terrible, spamming quick missions to get storyline missions can help, just be choosy for whom you work.
Edit: Also, pretty much any time you blow something up in space it's bound to annoy someone or something.
^^This.
Training up some of the skills in the social tree can go a long way to helping you. Sure, it'll take time, but what skills worth having in Eve don't? |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1227
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Posted - 2014.07.19 21:11:00 -
[45] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Which part looked awful? The missions.
The Plan wrote: Start working 'The Plan' with the Empire Faction that has the lowest amount of negative Faction Standing above -5.00 (-4.99 or higher) and complete the 10 part mission series for each of the 15 Career Agents in that specific Faction.
Career Agents After working the Career Agents, complete one round of the Circle Agent missions for that same specific Faction.
Circle Agents After completing one round of the Circle Agent missions, now work the level 1 Data Center 'Graduation Certificate' missions for the same specific Faction. After completing the 3rd 'Cert' mission, take one of the certs to the Agent listed on the certificate. That Agent will offer a multi part Storyline mission which will introduce another Event Agent.
Data Centers After completing those missions, turn in Pirate Tags to complete the rest of the Level 1 Data Center Agents. Don't speak to these Agents until ready with the required amount of Tags. Pirate Tags can be found in the wrecks of Pirate NPC's killed at Asteroid Belts, Cosmic Signature and Cosmic Anomaly exploration sites.
I don't want to grind missions. I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Arec Bardwin
1468
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Posted - 2014.07.19 21:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Zappity wrote: I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play. Then don't interact with NPCs. Simple, huh?
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Yee Ant
Indus Pirotech
2
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Posted - 2014.07.19 22:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
Reaction to faction standing currently depdens on whether or not you are flyiing a ship, or in a pod, while a sensible compromise would be to offer immunity to freighters/miners/diplomaticbags. This would greatly alleviate the unnecessary restrictions upon innocent capsuleers hithertoo lead astray.
Even better, offer limited time based immunity of conducting a mission on behalf of a corp which is part of a faction in whom you have negatove standings. After all, what local copper would arrest you if you could prove you were working for them?
Obvious flaws in the system exist, we need more loopholes. |
Yossarian Toralen
Steel and Iron Regiment
3
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Posted - 2014.07.20 04:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
[url]http://prntscr.com/44fqfy[/url]
Here is a screenshot of mission that you get a faction standings loss of -2.4%.
While some people will say I'm stupid for not realising that shooting a Caldari ship will result in a standings loss, some missions allow you to shoot opposing factions without any penalty so it's not even consistant.
Transperancy is the issue here, nowhere on that mission window does it state that I will receive a standings loss for completing the mission, only that I can from declining it. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28658
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Posted - 2014.07.20 05:32:00 -
[49] - Quote
Zappity wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Which part looked awful? The missions. I don't want to grind missions. I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play. Well, obviously it took time to incur the negative standings so it will also take time to repair them as well. Basically 'The Plan' outlines the easiest and quickest way to repair standings, especially since every single Event Agent listed in it gives Faction standing increase.
Arec Bardwin wrote:Zappity wrote: I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play. Then don't interact with NPCs. Simple, huh? Exactly.
DMC
Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
Yossarian Toralen
Steel and Iron Regiment
4
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Posted - 2014.07.20 07:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Zappity wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Which part looked awful? The missions. I don't want to grind missions. I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play. Well, obviously it took time to incur the negative standings so it will also take time to repair them as well. Basically 'The Plan' outlines the easiest and quickest way to repair standings, especially since every single Event Agent listed in it gives Faction standing increase. Arec Bardwin wrote:Zappity wrote: I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play. Then don't interact with NPCs. Simple, huh? Exactly.DMC
It takes time to incur security standings loss, but you can fix that in minutes, as many times as you can afford, I guess there should be a ganking tutorial when you start the game.
The game starts you off interacting with NPC's, so avoiding NPC's would be quite difficult while you're learning how to play this game. |
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
1277
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Posted - 2014.07.20 07:58:00 -
[51] - Quote
Yossarian Toralen wrote:http://prntscr.com/44fqfy
Here is a screenshot of mission that you get a faction standings loss of -2.4%.
While some people will say I'm stupid for not realising that shooting a Caldari ship will result in a standings loss, some missions allow you to shoot opposing factions without any penalty so it's not even consistant.
Transperancy is the issue here, nowhere on that mission window does it state that I will receive a standings loss for completing the mission, only that I can from declining it.
"...and kill all the Caldari in the area..."
Does that sound after a mission that gives you positive standing with Caldari?
I know there are countries where the people incapacitate themselves by demanding warning labels for everything that could go wrong while using the product in question. Please do not try to introduce that into a virtual reality with no impact on real life.
It is common sense that if you shoot the Caldari - they wont give you a prize. The Caldari are allied with the Amarr so if you shoot an Amarr - neither of them will be especially thrilled.
This is really a very simple concept and makes intuitive decision making easy.
If you have trouble with that then you should rather try to gain some cognitive abilities rather than wasting your time reclaming that CCP should dull down the mechanics to a level of your comprehension. I would recomend this online training programm for a start.
If I have been rude before I wont apologize - the forum police clearly worked hard for the retrieval of your honor anyway. I will not be rude to You again but just plain honest. Fly save TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Yossarian Toralen
Steel and Iron Regiment
5
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Posted - 2014.07.20 10:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:Yossarian Toralen wrote:http://prntscr.com/44fqfy
Here is a screenshot of mission that you get a faction standings loss of -2.4%.
While some people will say I'm stupid for not realising that shooting a Caldari ship will result in a standings loss, some missions allow you to shoot opposing factions without any penalty so it's not even consistant.
Transperancy is the issue here, nowhere on that mission window does it state that I will receive a standings loss for completing the mission, only that I can from declining it. "...and kill all the Caldari in the area..." Does that sound after a mission that gives you positive standing with Caldari? I know there are countries where the people incapacitate themselves by demanding warning labels for everything that could go wrong while using the product in question. Please do not try to introduce that into a virtual reality with no impact on real life. It is common sense that if you shoot the Caldari - they wont give you a prize. The Caldari are allied with the Amarr so if you shoot an Amarr - neither of them will be especially thrilled. This is really a very simple concept and makes intuitive decision making easy. If you have trouble with that then you should rather try to gain some cognitive abilities rather than wasting your time reclaming that CCP should dull down the mechanics to a level of your comprehension. I would recomend this online training programm for a start. If I have been rude before I wont apologize - the forum police clearly worked hard for the retrieval of your honor anyway. I will not be rude to You again but just plain honest. Fly save
Nice rant, did you read my post and understand it?
From your post just now it is apparent that you didn't You just feel that it is your right to insult people on forums, not add to a thread or do anything that is of any value at all.
Was there a point to your first post that the mods deleted or this one?
And to be honest, the forum police defended your honour, not mine.
ps. by the look of your spelling you come from the country that has warning labels on everything, no freedom of speech here, are you crying because the nasty man took away a useless post?
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Yee Ant
Indus Pirotech
2
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Posted - 2014.07.20 11:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
I don't think anyone is contesting that actions have consequences, but the lack of the notion of time served, or of progressive return to acceptability as time goes on, of forgiveness and corruption, which are very human and true to life traits, means that Eve lacks realism, even while players insist the opposite is true.
It has been mentioned that the reputation system lacks refinement, surely we all agree on that? |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
1277
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Posted - 2014.07.20 16:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
Yee Ant wrote:I don't think anyone is contesting that actions have consequences, but the lack of the notion of time served, or of progressive return to acceptability as time goes on, of forgiveness and corruption, which are very human and true to life traits, means that Eve lacks realism, even while players insist the opposite is true.
It has been mentioned that the reputation system lacks refinement, surely we all agree on that? Yes. TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Jur Tissant
Unreal Darkness
88
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Posted - 2014.07.20 18:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
It's not like EVE isn't loaded up with warnings for entering low-sec or undocking without an up-to-date clone or placing high buy orders etc etc etc. A small line that says "Warning: this mission may damage standings with XXX faction" in the mission description would be welcome. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1026
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Posted - 2014.07.20 19:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Quote:This is an important mission, which will have significant impact on your faction standings. Every mission which has an effect on your faction standings has the above warning. It does not state whether the effect is good or bad - you can see that for yourself when you follow up on the warning by checking the resulting change in standing when completing said mission. You're expecting people to actually read? It's more fun not to then complain in the forms.
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Yee Ant
Indus Pirotech
2
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Posted - 2014.07.20 19:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:Quote:This is an important mission, which will have significant impact on your faction standings. Every mission which has an effect on your faction standings has the above warning. It does not state whether the effect is good or bad - you can see that for yourself when you follow up on the warning by checking the resulting change in standing when completing said mission. You're expecting people to actually read? It's more fun not to then complain in the forms.
Everything you do in Eve effects your faction standings, whether or not you interact with npcs. Even mining effects your faction standings and we do not have a tictchy bit of text you need a magnifying glass to read reminding you to check your standings have not moved from -.4.99 to -.5.
We need something more visible, more painful/rewarding at every change in standing. Fireworks and a shock collar maybe...
Anyway, you are being supercilicious. Only missions warn you about your potential faction standings, and even then, does nto take into account more subtle shifts. The network of faction reps is more akin to a cymbal balanced on a thimble, drop a grain of sand anywhere and all faction standings are afected in some way, for good or for bad.
A skinflint graphists tiny bit of text supposed to warn players is a joke, and I agree with a strong rep system, problem is players and ai factions have insufficient ways of responding to faction status, other than the current pass/fail system.. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
986
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Posted - 2014.07.20 23:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
Standings is the only thing in the game that prevents people subbing up for 6 months and then doing nothing but set skills training every week or two before coming back to an instant ISK making machine capable of level IVs, FW plexs and incursions without having ever left dock. (I suppose in theory you can qualify for a Titan that way as well but good luck getting someone to fleet with you if you have never flown before)
The ability to train for years with no ingame interaction is one of the flaws of the EVE skill system and wanting to bypass standings is a bad thing. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
986
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Posted - 2014.07.20 23:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
Zappity wrote:
I don't want to grind missions. I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play.
Faction war is in essence PvP with a bit of "arena" style limited PvP allowed.
If you want to PvP just start roaming losec looking for trouble. Standings only matter for PvE actvities like FW and missions.
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Yee Ant
Indus Pirotech
2
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Posted - 2014.07.21 00:18:00 -
[60] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Zappity wrote:
I don't want to grind missions. I don't think we should be forced to interact with the NPC side of the game to that extent. NPC interaction is not why I play.
Faction war is in essence PvP with a bit of "arena" style limited PvP allowed. If you want to PvP just start roaming losec looking for trouble. Standings only matter for PvE actvities like FW and missions. FW=PVE?
news to me..
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