Beautiful.

It brought a tear to my eye. I don't think that I could have written a post designed to outrage more of the community if I had sat down and devoted days to do so.

I'm going to watch a little bit of the nerdscreaming before I reply to this. But I'd just like to point out that all of these proposed changes amount to "Play Eve my way." and "Eve should cater to my desires, and no one else's."

Edit: Oh, and the fact that this is an elaborately decorated Remove moon mining repost.

I'm looking at the map of Deklein's NPC kills per 24h on Dotlan and wondering where you get off on claiming no one is out in space earning their isk the hard way anymore - and this is despite us paying an excellent SRP program that most membercorps add their own isk to, resulting in people making money from losing ships. I'm looking at all the isk we're sinking into upgrading our space for industry and wondering where you get off on claiming no one uses their space anymore.

Goonswarm: Playing the game the right way, apparently.

While there is a degree of anti-competitiveness to be addressed in the current state of sovereignty and blocs, SRP is far from the prime evil in that equation and seems to be the target of misdirected frustration. At worst, it is a symptom of success and you are complaining that you (and your corp) are not successful in that manner- the problem doesn't lie with the game...

I'm looking at the map of Deklein's NPC kills per 24h on Dotlan and wondering where you get off on claiming no one is out in space earning their isk the hard way anymore - and this is despite us paying an excellent SRP program that most membercorps add their own isk to, resulting in people making money from losing ships. I'm looking at all the isk we're sinking into upgrading our space for industry and wondering where you get off on claiming no one uses their space anymore.

Goonswarm: Playing the game the right way, apparently.

My solution: Get rid of moon mining completely. Replace it with new mining sites where people can obtain those raw materials. This puts people in space, which provides content for more than the occasional moon POS bash. It cuts out one pillar of coalition income. Players now attack players instead of structures.

That is a valid point, but you have a static income source now. It becomes like the old static complexes. It would be better if the mining happened in dynamic anomalies that could spawn anywhere in 0.0 space. That gets people moving around.

That would certainly help, and would help reduce monetary inflation as well. People spending their time actively mining stuff are not shooting rats and generating ISK.

As for costs, a simple double of fee for each additional system would take care of things in short order, and it would not have to be at the corp level. Suppose sov fee simply doubled for each additional system, and the first system costs a paltry 100 million isk. By the time we get to 19 systems, the fee would be more than the net gain in ISK per month, game wide, 26.2 trillion ISK.

Sure some big alliances would split into smaller alliances and remain affiliated, but the admin overhead would increase. Slight political and economic differences and goals would emerge over time, even amongst the Goons. They will deny it of course, as such a denial is and has always been the only defense to such proposals.

"You get to control 5-10 systems total, because **** you that's why, no we're not going to do anything about the income or player density problems inherent to this idea."


This isn't the way to fix things, hth.

I thought it's been made clear by this point that cost is ineffective at balancing sov. Higher costs only hinder newer groups, and have little effect on the well organized existing groups.

Scaling costs can impose limits on larger groups without having an impact on small groups at all. Large groups, well-organized groups, such as the two dominant coalitions, will undoubtedly find ways to get around those attempts to limit their power.

That is why CCP needs to be more bold about shaking things up. CCP gave us a sandbox and then basically let us break it. Since there is no incentive for the kids running the sandbox to let other kids play, CCP needs to adjust the rules and see what happens. At least it will make things interesting for a bit.

Taking away moon goo as a passive, centralized income source is a step towards giving some power back to the individual player and taking it away from the centralized power blocs. If nothing else, it gets more pilots into space to collect it.

That would certainly help, and would help reduce monetary inflation as well. People spending their time actively mining stuff are not shooting rats and generating ISK.

As for costs, a simple double of fee for each additional system would take care of things in short order, and it would not have to be at the corp level. Suppose sov fee simply doubled for each additional system, and the first system costs a paltry 100 million isk. By the time we get to 19 systems, the fee would be more than the net gain in ISK per month, game wide, 26.2 trillion ISK.

Sure some big alliances would split into smaller alliances and remain affiliated, but the admin overhead would increase. Slight political and economic differences and goals would emerge over time, even amongst the Goons. They will deny it of course, as such a denial is and has always been the only defense to such proposals.

None of the opinions or anecdotes listed in the OP come close to proving the hypothesis stated in the thread subject, in fact don't even support it.

Demanding that CCP do something to eliminate SRP is as sensible as demanding CCP do something to eliminate players' use Teamspeak/Mumble/Jabber/Ventrilio and start using EVE Voice again, because "Eve is Dying".

There's no correlation.

Even if there was one, you would have to prevent corps/alliance from giving money to their members...

You don't have to stop corporations from giving ISK to members: you just have to make the ISK worth something. Worth is derived from the effort needed to get it. So long as passive income moon goo is out there, the effort required to keep the ISK flowing is the effort to log in with 18 hours notice and blob up at the POS (and all the massive logistics effort associated with fueling the POS's, collecting the goo, and moving it to market). Those efforts inherently benefit a large coalition with a Supercapital fleet more than a smaller entity.

So you want to add a management level to the process and think the current SOV holder who already know how to deal with the management requirement won't be able to use the system better than others who don't?

Slight political and economic differences and goals would emerge over time, even amongst the Goons. They will deny it of course, as such a denial is and has always been the only defense to such proposals.

Every kind of worth will be better gathered (for lack of a better word because I can't seem to find one) by the current large blocs because they are already used to dealing with things efficiently on a much larger scale than any other group in the game.

we deny it because there is no truth to that, not because of some wish to keep the status quo

there is nothing that prevents a large number of alliances from essentially operating as a single alliance and there is also no reason why Socialism In Space cannot extend across multiple alliances - this is already the case with both of the major blocs

Pure speculation.

And from time to time thse major blocs break up, have disagrements, change. If there was one monolitic administrative boundry. such changes would be far less likely.

Saying "if alliances are forced to divide themselves, these things will happen" is also pure speculation FYI

Yeah because people never leave their corporations and corporations never leave their alliances