Thanks for your scant and pointless input and major assumption, I know nothing about nothing i mainly pvp/pve however i do like to refine the odd rock i shoot now and then and now i get a lesser refine rate than what i did 24 hrs ago.

So to me the patch is ****, by the sounds of it i am one of the more fortunate unlucky ones from reading the forums on how these changes affected some folk.

So you are aware that they upped yield so that in a 50% station a 72% refine today will get you the same amount of ore that a 100% refine got you yesterday? And with the new POS modules you can get 52% or 54% base, and with a 4% or 5% implant you can get over a 72% refine?

And you do understand that your perfect standings still affect the 5% we take tax exactly the same as they did before?

Basically, what's different now is that you need perfect skills and a 3% implant to get the 72% refine which equals what was a 100% refine. So your training was not wasted. Likely you need to do more of it, and get all applicable skills to 5.

The only thing that got nerfed is module refine. That's going the way of the dodo. But in terms of ore refining, complete your training and get to a 72% refine. That's the new 'perfect refine'. And use of implants, POS modules, and station upgrades will get you 'beyond perfect' now, giving yields beyond what were possible before.

So, in one breath you say that a 72% refine is equal to yesterday's 100% refine. OK, got it.

But THEN you say you need perfect skill and a 3% implant to get to that 72% which matches yesterday's 100%.

THEN you say the only thing that got nerfed is module refine.

You can see where some people might be confused. If you cant get today what you could get yesterday without more training or implants, you have been nerfed, sir.

Yeah, I suppose my CEO and I have no one but ourselves to blame, I guess we didnt read enough. I thought that everyone was going to be sitting at 72% and that was that, and that if I had perfect yesterday I would have the "new perfect" today.

Yeah, I suppose my CEO and I have no one but ourselves to blame, I guess we didnt read enough. I thought that everyone was going to be sitting at 72% and that was that, and that if I had perfect yesterday I would have the "new perfect" today.

A while back we formed a "daughter corporation" and filled it with an Orca booster and miners. We would buy the ice and ore from the miners, and use our then-perfect refines to churn a small profit which went into our SRP fund. We're either going to have to find a way to change the business model slightly, or put up the cash up-front to keep buying the ore to keep our miners happy whilst we stockpile it till one of us gets an alt or our mains back to "perfect" refines.

UGH

If it's just high sec ores, you can be back in the game in a month from basically zero skills. Low & Null ores take a bit longer to do. Exact time depending on if you did RE V already or not.

\Well thanks for that, I hadnt sat down and looked at what the damage would be. It'll be starting from scratch on an alt as I CBA to stop training things I'm working towards now, the perfect refines I had on hisec ores were a leftover from my noobie carebear days.

So, for about a month we buy the ore, either compress, move, and sell it for hopefully a small profit, or we stockpile to we get our perfects back. Depends on how well our other isk-making enterprises go, I guess vOv

The spreadsheets are vastly simpler now. A huge improvement, I just updated my entire ore processing, and if you have a build cost spreadsheet of more than about 10 BPO's I hope you do an SDE import rather than manually entering all the values (Something I need to learn to do)
Researching BPO's hasn't really changed
And if you did invention T2 shouldn't have had significant actual changes either though the ME numbers look different.

As for doing it in parts, compared to the grand scheme of changes this is just a small part, Invention is next, and then POS management & corp roles, and I'd really rather than not take six years to roll through just those three stages.

Yeah, I suppose my CEO and I have no one but ourselves to blame, I guess we didnt read enough. I thought that everyone was going to be sitting at 72% and that was that, and that if I had perfect yesterday I would have the "new perfect" today.

A while back we formed a "daughter corporation" and filled it with an Orca booster and miners. We would buy the ice and ore from the miners, and use our then-perfect refines to churn a small profit which went into our SRP fund. We're either going to have to find a way to change the business model slightly, or put up the cash up-front to keep buying the ore to keep our miners happy whilst we stockpile it till one of us gets an alt or our mains back to "perfect" refines.

UGH

Seriously I have to pay to run jobs at my own POS now? REALLY? REALLY? In addition to that I have to go buy a bunch of different labs now? REALLY? So paying for fuel costs wasn't enough, I have to actually pay to do my research...7 years of researching for near perfect ME on tons of BPOs all for nothing....REALLY?

I personally have canceled all my subscriptions on 4 accounts (unfortunately they are paid up for 3 to 6 more months) so I will be forced to stick around.

While I understand I have to re-lean the ins and outs of manufacturing. It seems like a lot that these changes have forced on us

Rebuild my spreadsheets to manage my operation.

Figure out how these changes impact the way I do things.

Maybe require me to move systems.

Change how I research BPO's

Throw out all my assumptions on how much things cost

Throw out all the knowledge on what is worth manufacturing

take a second look at t2 manufacturing

Look in to alcamey (sp) and reactions as those have changed too

Oh, figure out how much it costs to Jump the JF and Rorq since the changed consumption and size of isotopes

I think CCP could have done this in a more iterative process as they suggested by having lots of little releases. But this is like their old process of BIG changes all at once. I don't get their development strategy. They say one thing and do what they always have done.

I think my biggest beef is that If they ever made this drastic of changes to Combat, the game would be dead. (Sorry Ship re-balancing does not compare) . It would be like them saying we are going to get rid of Missiles and make them mortars, Change Lasers to WaveMotion Cannon's, ammo will no longer be needed but you have to pay X aurum(sp) per shot. oh and High sec got converted to NULL (though it feels that way sometimes anyway), and we got rid of docking up.

Not happy, with all the changes so fast (after no changes for as long as I can remember) . I'll finish what is in the pipeline and then take a break. Don't know if I will come back do what I was doing or what. I might just play to the end of my subscriptions and be done, it has been a good 6 years

The spreadsheets are vastly simpler now. A huge improvement, I just updated my entire ore processing, and if you have a build cost spreadsheet of more than about 10 BPO's I hope you do an SDE import rather than manually entering all the values (Something I need to learn to do)
Researching BPO's hasn't really changed
And if you did invention T2 shouldn't have had significant actual changes either though the ME numbers look different.

As for doing it in parts, compared to the grand scheme of changes this is just a small part, Invention is next, and then POS management & corp roles, and I'd really rather than not take six years to roll through just those three stages.

oh and don't forget about hiring teams in an auction to help your research for a category of one item, that you only get for a limited time

Seriously I have to pay to run jobs at my own POS now? REALLY? REALLY? In addition to that I have to go buy a bunch of different labs now? REALLY? So paying for fuel costs wasn't enough, I have to actually pay to do my research...7 years of researching for near perfect ME on tons of BPOs all for nothing....REALLY?

in time, i expect these changes to be mitigated by ppl putting a production pos in each system, all over high sec. maybe this is what ccp wanted?

Ps.
Why are u guys using spreadsheets? just wait for the new isk per hour to release, it's amazing

I think I read somewhere that CCP found that most ships were selling at approximately 5% profit margins. I believe they think that 5% profit margins is acceptable for all production.

Now, that makes me wonder what their share holders, or investors, would think if they turned only a 5% profit...

I still don't get the teams thing either. Stupid!

Bunch of wasted SP and time. Autopay subscription is off.

At this point I am far too invested into industry. I could sell all of my bpos I supppose, but it would take a lot of time. I am going to take a brief hiatus from industry though and see where the dust settles. For now, I am going to start up some heavy PI.

R.I.P. my perfect dreadnaught bpos.

Is anyone bowing out of Industry