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SKILLPOINTS SHOULD NEVER BE LOST

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Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5690	Posted - 2014.07.23 03:31:00 - [31] - Quote Death Ryder wrote: Bohneik Itohn wrote: Meh. Just out of curiosity how much did you lose? I mean it's kind of hard for me to sympathize since I don't lose that many med clones, and when I do my first reaction is to buy a new one before I even check my own losses... I thought spending those few seconds zoomed in on your broken capsule had that effect on everybody. So i'm guessing you live alone or have beaten the kids hard enough that they never go in and look at your game, so there's no way you'd ever lose a clone without knowing.. Renter loses SP then blindly accuses someone of beating their children. Classy. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5690	Posted - 2014.07.23 03:32:00 - [32] - Quote Death Ryder wrote: Its kind of amazing, if I was trying to get the developers to make it so you could light you bum on fire and stick it out a airlock in jita, you lot would be all in favour of it and probably telling the everyone I should be a world leader, but I pipe up and try and do something that makes sense and helps to protect the most important asset in the game, all you can do is tell me I'm crazy and should suck it up and stop whining and let everyone else do the same.. So you lost level 5 in something, and you sucked it up and you retrained your skill, OK so tell me you didn't feel sick to the pit of your stomach when you did lose it, now tell me you didn't ask your self why there's no safety to protect your skills... OH goody, now tell us all honestly that you didn't... So what's the point in objecting to something that will prevent that overwhelming feeling of disgust to other people? What's wrong with doing something simple that helps other people. I've been looking forward to the next meltdown on the EVE forums. Please continue. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com
Bohneik Itohn Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 593	Posted - 2014.07.23 03:48:00 - [33] - Quote Death Ryder wrote: Its kind of amazing, if I was trying to get the developers to make it so you could light you bum on fire and stick it out a airlock in jita, you lot would be all in favour of it and probably telling the everyone I should be a world leader, but I pipe up and try and do something that makes sense and helps to protect the most important asset in the game, all you can do is tell me I'm crazy and should suck it up and stop whining and let everyone else do the same.. So you lost level 5 in something, and you sucked it up and you retrained your skill, OK so tell me you didn't feel sick to the pit of your stomach when you did lose it, now tell me you didn't ask your self why there's no safety to protect your skills... OH goody, now tell us all honestly that you didn't... So what's the point in objecting to something that will prevent that overwhelming feeling of disgust to other people? What's wrong with doing something simple that helps other people. It's not the crab-in-a-barrel syndrome, it's just the simple idea that if you remove essentially all of the risk of managing your medical clone, which is a pretty simple process, what else has to change? You died and lost sp? Alright. Before MMO's turned into a bunch of CandyLand simulators it was par for the course for MMO's to have unavoidable Experience loss and even Permadeath. Eve came along and changed that by essentially allowing you to pay a small fee to insure that doesn't happen. If you wanted Experience and money in one of those MMO's, you had to spend time in the game grinding both. Eve decided to be pretty lax on that too, and allowed you to gain both SP and isk without being logged into the game (albeit the isk part is a "recent" development). Eve, for all it's harshness, still remains quite amenable and full of creature comforts that we exploit every day without a second thought. If you make it next to impossible to screw up medical clones CCP will, reasonably, want to remove something else we take for granted, l.E. offline skill training. Have a good evening. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Kaerakh Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling 395	Posted - 2014.07.23 04:01:00 - [34] - Quote Death Ryder wrote: I lost 1.3m sp between 2 characters that I thought were up to date in there clones. turns out they weren't. Point isn't that I lost them or overlooked the clones, point is that AFTER overlooking them, they stayed overlooked because something so important doesn't have any warnings associated with it that are easily noticed.. Isn't that your fault for being forgetful then? Obligatory image. Schrodinger's Hot Dropper - The Fate of Forum Alts - Click me! Click me!
8 EyedSpy NROL-39 0	Posted - 2014.07.23 05:19:00 - [35] - Quote Death Ryder wrote: So i'm guessing you live alone or have beaten the kids hard enough that they never go in and look at your game, so there's no way you'd ever lose a clone without knowing.. I doubt most kids would be able to undock and warp to a gate without at least doing the tutorial. Kid friendly is not how i would describe eve's interface.
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 3345	Posted - 2014.07.23 05:33:00 - [36] - Quote If killboards showed SP destroyed... Oh god.
elitatwo Congregatio 264	Posted - 2014.07.23 07:10:00 - [37] - Quote I cannot agree with the OP. Last time I was podded I saw the new death animation for the first time and woke up in Amarr and got two disturbing messages at the same time the station interior finished loading. Amost the shiny Amarr halls of faith and worship there is that gigantic medical thingy that blinks in a way you cannot miss it stating that your in my case my clone was insufficient, please upgrade your clone again ( oh noes 45.5 million..). In addition to that, the second you get podded you are out of your egg, staring at and empty place where your boat or pod used to be, which is a hint that is very hard to miss. signature
Jessica Danikov Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 371	Posted - 2014.07.23 07:29:00 - [38] - Quote I lost Logi V and almost killed a cap chain because I hadn't realized I lost it, once. The main contributor to not remembering to update my clone was rage-quitting the client over the previous podloss (was pretty pissed with the anchor who caused the loss). However you lose SP, you live, you learn (and you swallow the lost SP as a hard lesson- CCP won't give it back). CCP have done a little better with the death screen highlighting that your clone needs to be updated, but there really should be a togglable option to remind you on login or undock if you've neglected to do so. I understand that skill points are part of a risk/reward loop, but while risking ISK in chosing a level of clone or implants or flying a T3 is mildly interesting, risking SP by poor visibility of your current clone level is just punitive only to simple crimes of forgetfulness. As for EVEMon, I have a bunch of characters that don't need their clones updating so I categorically filtered out the insufficient clone notifications and missed that my main had joined the throng- my bad, I guess. Of course these discussions naturally attract people who, whether they've lost SP in the past or not, are far more interested in making fun of those who admit to doing so- welkome to the forums, HTFU, etc.
Thorr VonAsgard Never Surrender. 42	Posted - 2014.07.23 07:43:00 - [39] - Quote Use EVEmon, be adverted that your clones are not up to date. Make them up to date. Problem resolved....
Saleika Issikainen Sassikainen 0	Posted - 2014.07.23 07:54:00 - [40] - Quote Antillie Sa'Kan wrote: EVEMon already nags you incessantly if the clone for one of your toons is out of date. And honestly, who doesn't use EVEMon already anyway? If you aren't for some reason, start. I like how people don't see an issue with a game so badly done that external utilities are an outright necessity.

Dally Lama Republic University Minmatar Republic 89	Posted - 2014.07.23 08:16:00 - [41] - Quote Another thread that goes to show how nearly all the regulars left on this forum are foolish sheep who cannot ever think properly or for themselves. Here the OP is not asking for a refund, nor he is not asking for a change that affects anyone either. He is simply asking for a warning that alerts him that his clones are not up to date. This warning could be disabled upon request. This isn't something that would take long to code in, nor has the argument of "waste of dev time" been levied either. What's happened here is the simple case of fools thinking like sheep. Here is what has actually happened: 1) Elitist forum bros enter the thread and criticize the OP :because: 2) Other forum bros come in, and follow such opinion because they cannot think for themselves. 3) Rare forum bro that might agree with the OP won't speak up because he doesn't want to look uncool. It sounds childish and that is quite honestly my point: You guys are immature in your thinking. +1 OP. Your idea is solid, petition CCP about it. I've had many, many ideas posted here decimated like you only to have them implemented via petitioning to GMs (i.e. people who know how to think). Don't let the lack of acceptance from the forum regulars dissuade you. I once posted an idea, got 0 likes. The counter to my idea received 45 likes. The idea was implemented the next month. It seems CCP are able to recognize the stupidity of the members on here. Also if you can't deal with the flaming and the trolling, which seems to have pissed you off a bit, I would advice you to leave the forums now and not look back. It's a constant theme here. I only stay and deal with it to make work more interesting New Fitting Window \| Distances above 10km \| Maximums for buy orders
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 212	Posted - 2014.07.23 08:45:00 - [42] - Quote Being as clones are a bog standard isk sink, I see no reason for a quality of life fix. It amazes me how many people think this is somehow a bad thing, that want to keep sneaky 'gotchas' in the game to help convince themselves that eve is somehow 'hard' and they are 'better' than others. Newsflash: it's not and you're not.
Anthar Thebess 603	Posted - 2014.07.23 08:53:00 - [43] - Quote Well i agree. Some warring when you are un docking could be good. Why? Because this is something simple to add. - When you loose pod 10th time today , it is possible that you will forget to upgrade, as some fight is 2j away, and you don't want to loose to much of it. - At some point you can miss upgrade because , this character lived enough that you simply overgrown a clone that you bought 3 months ago. Simple warning , why not. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption
Fer'isam K'ahn None Of One 234	Posted - 2014.07.23 09:19:00 - [44] - Quote Strange, has nobody called this a 'sneak remove clone insurance' attempt and a redundant thread yet ? Really weird and slow day I guess. Next step is 'never lose implants' thread, can't wait for that one. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?!
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 212	Posted - 2014.07.23 09:47:00 - [45] - Quote Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: Strange, has nobody called this a 'sneak remove clone insurance' attempt and a redundant thread yet ? Really weird and slow day I guess. Next step is 'never lose implants' thread, can't wait for that one. Going to venture that's because it isnt that? It's a nag request, not a "no clone insurance" request. Ok, so the title is terrible, I grant you
Cardano Firesnake Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation 169	Posted - 2014.07.23 09:58:00 - [46] - Quote I lost Amarr Battleship V and never recovered it. But I like the idea that if you are not cautious you will loose SP. Eve is unfair and must stay as it. Because all other games are fair. We don't need another game that is like all others. We already have all other games. I am ok for balance of ships and modules because the game mechanics should have a logic. I am ok for an upgrade of the UI that would give a better imersion. (Why an advanced space ship could not have the same advanced technology that already exist in real life today? But I think that we must always have the pressure of making a mistake. It is the essence of this game. Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Buhhdust Princess Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 8331	Posted - 2014.07.23 10:37:00 - [47] - Quote Death Ryder wrote: Because simple mistakes happen to everyone, where does it say that if your a in game you have to be one here in the forums? Snip, Please refrain from profanities - ISD Atomic Dove Ive lost dread 5 and bs 5 to this and its just human error.. u should remember urself to up it and keep checking if u dont its ur own problem..
fudface ACME-INC 51	Posted - 2014.07.23 11:30:00 - [48] - Quote this is eve everything you have can be destroyed.
Tchulen Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult 818	Posted - 2014.07.23 11:42:00 - [49] - Quote Buhhdust Princess wrote: Ive lost dread 5 and bs 5 to this and its just human error.. u should remember urself to up it and keep checking if u dont its ur own problem.. Yeah, this. I've lost a couple of high level skills to this early on but I learned and now I don't. If you blame game mechanics rather than accepting that it's really your own fault you probably won't learn and you'll probably keep losing SP. Like many things in EVE, taking personal responsibility for your mistakes is the best path to not making them in the future. Not supported.
Jur Tissant Unreal Darkness 93	Posted - 2014.07.23 11:46:00 - [50] - Quote Well there is a warning which shows up whenever you undock in a bad clone so make sure not to disable that. But, I don't think it's a terrible idea, regardless of what the masochists say. Losing weeks of progress because of a silly mistake isn't challenging it's just cruel.

Aiyshimin Imperial Collective Unsettled. 60	Posted - 2014.07.23 12:05:00 - [51] - Quote +1, no downsides to giving a warning. However SP should still be lost should you die in a T3 or on an outdated clone. Just make it less prone to human error.
Takari Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 418	Posted - 2014.07.23 12:28:00 - [52] - Quote Death Ryder wrote: OK so tell me you didn't feel sick to the pit of your stomach when you did lose it, now tell me you didn't ask your self why there's no safety to protect your skills... OH goody, now tell us all honestly that you didn't... So what's the point in objecting to something that will prevent that overwhelming feeling of disgust to other people? What's wrong with doing something simple that helps other people. The overwhelming feeling of disgust, the deep sense of loss when I mess up is what keeps me coming back. It's why I was addicted to the original Everquest. Without the fear of that loss the game is lost. "Roll the dice, don't think twice. This is the way of things. Welcome to EVE." ~ CCP Falcon
w3ak3stl1nk Hedion University 77	Posted - 2014.07.23 12:44:00 - [53] - Quote Still think the problem is you lived in that clone too long. Is that my two cents or yours?
Karak Bol Low-Sec Survival Ltd. 192	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:11:00 - [54] - Quote Just use evemon. Gives a warning if your clone is not up to date.
Kirluin 46	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:18:00 - [55] - Quote +1 good idea. In a game where we have safeties, and spam emails every hour that your POS is about to run out of fuel, it's a no brainer to put in some kind of easily visible warning that your clone is out of date. Talk about a littlest of little things. Red letter warning right under the undock would be great. Or right next to the "safety button" fer cryin out loud. It's information as important as anything else in the UI. I'd also like to point out that losing sp on death is NOT a "hardcore" feature because it is too easily avoided. I've played online games where death meant you lost everything to whoever killed you, plus unrecoverable loss of weeks/months of character progress. THAT is hardcore gameplay. Eve is hardcore in a lot of OTHER ways. Personally I say either make SP loss automatic and unavoidable on pod loss (like t3 skills), or get rid of the ridiculous feature altogether. But that's a separate discussion entirely.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 1559	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:20:00 - [56] - Quote Dally Lama wrote: Here is what has actually happened: 1) Elitist forum bros enter the thread and criticize the OP :because: 2) Other forum bros come in, and follow such opinion because they cannot think for themselves. 3) Rare forum bro that might agree with the OP won't speak up because he doesn't want to look uncool. It sounds childish and that is quite honestly my point: You guys are immature in your thinking. Whoa, you're over-analyzing this. Simple truth is that threads asking for an extra blink or two pop up every day, nobody really cares much either way, but light trolling is always fun. Especially if the OP makes an ALL CAPS title and gets all worked up at the first playful reply. EVE Online: Death-o-meter
Velicitia Arma Artificer 2421	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:24:00 - [57] - Quote Fer'isam K'ahn wrote: Sharing your account is banable ... even 'accidentally' with the kids Technically, if they're under 18 (13?) then you can share with them all day, and it's not bannable; as they're unable to legally accept the EULA / TOS. However, agree that OP should've locked the computer or logged out if going AFK with kids in the house (assuming "Kids" was the cause in the first place). If "Kids" wasn't the cause, then OP should probably lock the Jack & Jim up before logging in (also, Glenlivet, Macallan, $other_distillery, depending on tastes) One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Death Ryder Angels and Devils Shadow of xXDEATHXx 16	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:27:00 - [58] - Quote well, seems there's been some thought into this, and the majority of the objections aren't for any good reason other than, I lost my skill points and had to learn , others should have to do it also... Pretty juvenile to be honest, but people seem to be starting to see past it, also liked Anthar Thebess' idea about buying back lost skill points, CCP could have it so a corpse that didn't have enough upgrade to store all the skill points would show differently to others and be ransonable, if the player can get the corpse back and get it to a medical facility then experts could recover the skill points for a fee. But that's another topic I guess and if I mix them I'm sure some of the readers will get quite hysterical and try to have the entire thread removed..
Velicitia Arma Artificer 2421	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:44:00 - [59] - Quote Death Ryder wrote: well, seems there's been some thought into this, and the majority of the objections aren't for any good reason other than, I lost my skill points and had to learn , others should have to do it also... Pretty juvenile to be honest, but people seem to be starting to see past it, also liked Anthar Thebess' idea about buying back lost skill points, CCP could have it so a corpse that didn't have enough upgrade to store all the skill points would show differently to others and be ransonable, if the player can get the corpse back and get it to a medical facility then experts could recover the skill points for a fee. But that's another topic I guess and if I mix them I'm sure some of the readers will get quite hysterical and try to have the entire thread removed.. Well, except that this goes totally against the lore -- your brain is pretty much melted by the scan (or is it the chemical cocktail... whichever), and is utterly useless after the "death-clone". If you were going to go for "pay for resetting my SP", it would have to be expensive (a PLEX or more), and very limited -- say, only several HOURS after you died, and ONLY able to restore your most recent clone's SP. So, if you had 100m SP, and died in an alpha, you lose 2m SP (or whatever the max is) ... ... then you die AGAIN in an alpha, without having PLEX'd the first loss ... and lose another 1.5m SP (or whatever). You THEN PLEX to get your SP back, and get 1.5m, and the other 2m is forever gone. (note, this is off-the-cuff ... I know that it's terrible). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Tchulen Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult 818	Posted - 2014.07.23 13:54:00 - [60] - Quote Death Ryder wrote: well, seems there's been some thought into this, and the majority of the objections aren't for any good reason other than, I lost my skill points and had to learn , others should have to do it also... Pretty juvenile to be honest You're simply dismissing what you don't want to hear. Some people like playing EVE specifically because it doesn't hold your hand and specifically because there are real implications for personal failure. Some people like the fact that you have to learn stuff or you make mistakes and lose stuff. Just because you want your hand held it doesn't make their opinions invalid. With every hand holding addition to the game this need to actually learn and better oneself decreases. This is what people argue against. This is what some people want to keep. This is what you want to remove because you'd prefer not to have to actually think and when you screw up you'd rather go to the forum and shout that it wasn't you.... it was the game. You didn't make a mistake which you can learn from... It's CCP's fault! You don't need to learn... The game needs to change. Well, it's not CCP's fault, it's yours. You died. You were killed. You saw yourself in space, recloned in your medical clone station and you failed to upgrade your clone. Or you left your client unattended and so one of your kids got you killed. Either way, it's your own fault. So you can claim that the naysayers are just naysaying for the sake of it if you like but it's precisely the same as you claiming it's not your fault you lost skill points. It's simply not true. This might read a little harsh but you've admitted the reason you've posted the OP is precisely because you lost SP. That kind of self-serving F&I post generally garners a fair amount of negative responses just because it's obvious that the OP is approaching it from a selfish perspective, not because it would actually be better for the game overall. Being emotional due to a loss isn't a good reason to change the game. I am sorry if you're offended by this but there are valid reasons for people to not agree with you and simply dismissing them is itself pretty juvenile.



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