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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
   |
Posted - 2014.07.23 06:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Crius.
I was looking forward to seeing how things went. New opportunities and a fresh way of doing things.
EPIC FAIL!!!!,
Reason: it will now cost ~ 0.5B ISK more in installation fees to produce an Obelisk in my home system (dead end hi-sec, 14 or so jumps from Jita, 5 from Dodixie, no NPC industry facilities, just me and my 2 other accounts and a POS) than I'll get from selling it on the market. So, time mining vs mineral buy costs + loss from grossly excessive installation fees. I can't see how hiring a team to defray the extra cost will even spit in the ocean . Plus no stacking bonus on POSdules.
Way to kill off Science and Industry in a single stroke CCP! Good job (but I won't be starting any more)
That's 3 accounts from a previously loyal customer that you have jeopardised. I get the feeling that many others will be thinking very seriously about in subbing too if this isn't fixed to something that is more reasonable.
Is this why the economics Prof. resigned in such a hurry? Could he see the impending crash of the production side of the EvE economy coming?
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Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
276
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 06:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
The sky isnt falling yet, a new balance has to be found before prices can be taken seriously.
Old stockpiles might have to run out before the new reality hits home. |
D4mane
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 06:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
And this is just the begining.
Good luck moving at 50% more isotopes consuption. Good luck adding another spreadsheet with "moving logistics" to your repertoire. This game is 95% logistics, 4% looking for a fight, 1% the actual fight. Lets get to the next level CCP.
Nevermind everything getting more expensive to build.
In some cases:
Small t2 Rigs, the waste that could be eliminated previously is no more thus resulting in a 100% increase of the required t2 salvage. GG
|
erg cz
Sliperer
94
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 06:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
On the other hand it wanted less, then 100 ISK from me to produce banch of small ammo on a station industrial facility. I believe it was like 333 ISK pre-patch. So expensive stuff will become even more expensive , cheap - even more cheap, IMHO. |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 06:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well that's ok then. I'll be able to afford the ammo for my Velator. |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 07:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
So, does anyone want to buy an Obelisk from me for 3.5 billion ISK?
1.2 bn mineral cost (including increased capital construction components post Crius - previously maxed ME BPO - now 1 extra capital cargo bay and 1 extra something else) + 1.8bn job installation cost + sales cost + a modest profit (hardly worth my while)?
Oh, and now I'll need the ISK up front from customers, sorry!
Lead time: 4 to 6 weeks. ( the minerals don't just appear from nowhere at downtime, you know!). |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
1034
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 07:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
am i the only one who is re-writing his training plans and mining alts into industry/research? |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People
Of Sound Mind
157
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 07:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
I am a little concerned on costs too. Whilst not as excessive as your 0.5b, I found 27m and 66 days to research a destroyer BPOs TE to 20%.
I am wondering if in the example of your Obelisk (and indeed everything else out there with a stupid fee attached to it) that the prices will gravitate upwards once current stock levels are depleted.
Essentially though if CCP don't revisit it or fix it and people leave then ultimately they will kill off their own game.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 07:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
The 0.5 billion was the loss purely on the production cost vs sales price. The install quote I got was 1.8bn!!!!!
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Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 08:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm also getting a quote for 3.5 billion to research the Obelisk BPO to TE 20. In just under 300 days as I recall. |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 08:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
So you can add that to the lead time.  |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 08:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rowells wrote:am i the only one who is re-writing his training plans and mining alts into industry/research?
I'm thinking of sending my industry/mining main to go and learn PvP. (And lapse the rest of my alts).
Velators at dawn anyone?
Won't be able to afford to manufacture anything more expensive now.
Free ship when you get blown up? Well that's ok then.
If someone wants to replace my Kronos anytime I get ganked then I'll be fine with that too. Just don't ask me to produce from my T2 BPCs without cash up front! |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 08:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Build it and they will come?
Seriously?
Build it and go bust, more like.
Or say your going to build it and they come blow up your POS with you shiny 6billion BPO in it before the job is completed.
Hmmmmm.
Velators at dawn anyone?
I think I'll name my next (everything but science and industry corp) that. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
3944
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 08:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
People really should read the issues thread. [Click on the blue DEV badges.]
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Victor Helion wrote:Job costs on ME research appear to be completely screwed. Just plugged in a fullerene intercalated sheets BPO in one of my tower labs to ME10 and this happened:
2014.07.22 15:59:07Researching Material Efficiency-255,002,744.00 ISK Material efficiency research job fee between Helion Ventures and Secure Commerce Commission (Job ID: 229989219)
That's 255 million isk to research a BPO that costs 10m to buy. We have begun looking into the cost system to see if the prices it is requiring are correct or not.
CCP Greyscale wrote:Looks like something is indeed amiss with research pricing, we're investigating.
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Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 09:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thanks for pointing this out but something buried in the Issues thread is not the big news at the moment. It's shock. Disbelief. Demoralisation. Dismay.
And recriminations. |
Amseln deBrabant
Ochsenbruegger
11
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 09:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:Thanks for pointing this out but something buried in the Issues thread is not the big news at the moment. It's shock. Disbelief. Demoralisation. Dismay.
And recriminations. adapt or die, welcome to eve, and can i have your stuff, plz?
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Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 09:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
You can have a freighter for 10bn in 6 to 8 weeks if you pay up front. |
Ixidor Zorander
Coffee Club of Cautelous Chaps
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 09:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:Thanks for pointing this out but something buried in the Issues thread is not the big news at the moment. It's shock. Disbelief. Demoralisation. Dismay.
And recriminations.
sounds like my morning when I noticed upping a chimera bpo to ME 10 was 140b
staring at the monitor doing double takes almost expecting the price to change, getting up for coffee sitting back down and stareing, counting the commas (hundreds, thousands, millions, billions) deciding wow, ccp must be calculating this with three decimal places, soo 140 MILLION. moveing my isk into corp wallet to find I dont have enough to do the job... because its ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY BILLLLLLIIIOOOOON...... ridiculous.... |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 09:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:I'm also getting a quote for 3.5 billion to research the Obelisk BPO to TE 20. In just under 300 days as I recall.
Why on earth didn't you raise your bpo's to me 10, and te 10 before the patch hit?
I'm a relative beginner to industry but I cancelled blueprints that were cooking to 300 me/te when I realised I only needed 10 me/te and saved a lot of queue time. Now i'm sitting with a bunch of them all at -10%, -20%.
Everyone has known about this for months now.
Yesterday I put some T2 ammo to manufacture, at a cost of 317 isk in a npc station :-)
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Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 10:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
I was in the middle of getting ME to 16 (perfect) went the patch was announced and needed the BPO to run a job. No way I could have started TE before the patch on that one. Nearly all my other (100s) BPOs are now ME 10 % TE 20%, thankfully. Just about 20 rig BPOs to get to ME 10% from 0, for an insane amount of installation cost (and time ) post Crius,
And I've shelved any plans to get into other racial T1 ship BPOs until this has all sorted itself out. That's if I'm still interested in industry if the costs are not fixed to a reasonable level. I'm absolutely sure that it was not intended that installation costs for a freighter manufacturing or research job in a 0.01 cost scaling factor system should be more than 100% of the mineral (i.e. Input cost) . At least, that wasn't my reading of the Dev Blogs and forum post prior to the evil patch. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 10:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:I was in the middle of getting ME to 16 (perfect) went the patch was announced and needed the freighter BPO to run some jobs. No way I could have started TE or got it more than PE 1 before the patch on that one. Nearly all my other (100s) BPOs are now ME 10 % TE 20%, thankfully. Just about 20 rig BPOs to get to ME 10% from 0, for an insane amount of installation cost (and time ) post Crius, of course.
And I've shelved any plans to get into other racial T1 ship BPOs until this has all sorted itself out. That's if I'm still interested in industry if the costs are not fixed to a reasonable level. I'm absolutely sure that it was not intended that installation costs for a freighter manufacturing or research job in a 0.01 cost scaling factor system should be more than 100% of the mineral (i.e. Input cost) . At least, that wasn't my reading of the Dev Blogs and forum post prior to the evil patch.
Fair enough, I have to agree that the cost of researching/manufacturing big stuff seems a bit steep though, i'll stick to my T1 bits and bobs for now, with the odd low lvl T2 ammo or drone thrown in.
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2420
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 10:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
OP, you're in a bind of your own making, because the maths are something to the effect of
install cost (reduction?) = install base cost * ( 1/ (activity in this system / activity across new eden)) , further modifiable by teams and whatnot. So, if you have (for example) 5% of the TOTAL MFG INPUT (i.e. "Jobs started") in your system for the last 28 days, then your install cost = base_install * 0.95.
Now, this also has an upper-limit function where if the system has more than x% of the job installations, then prices start rising again (taxes to keep the space EPA happy or some BS like that).
However, CCP also ignored the problems in SISI, because "well we pulled TQ data for this part, so the numbers are skewed to be godawful, it'll be fine on TQ".
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
675
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 10:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
So nobody's confirmed it's an actual bug or working as intended. I say hold fire on all jobs until you know. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
675
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 10:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rowells wrote:am i the only one who is re-writing his training plans and mining alts into industry/research?
It's quite mysterious to me why you think the new system is any different from the old one in terms of what you actually do. So I have absolutely no idea why you would suddenly be interested in industry now when you weren't before, except the fact you might be a lemming and hyper-sensitive to marketing. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
770
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 11:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.
CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Winthorp
2275
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 11:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.
See he isn't just talking about research costs though like i asked you in another thread.
Is it working as intended that an freighter in any region regardless of its scaling should cost 500m ISK to make 1x freighter? |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 11:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.
Thankyou, kind sir!
I was hoping that there was an error in the calculations.
Back to business.....! |
Takanuro
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
114
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 11:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.
Amen for that.
I personally didn't start any jobs as costs were crazy, but I'm wondering if there will be reimbursement for those unfortunate souls that 'trusted' the expansion as being correct and stumped up crazy isk to get researching?
Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
|
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
1
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 11:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:
See he isn't just talking about research costs though like i asked you in another thread.
Is it working as intended that an freighter in any region regardless of its scaling should cost 500m ISK to make 1x freighter?
Actually, the cost was 1.8bn for the 1 run installation cost. It was 3.5 bn for TE 0 to 20% on the same obelisk BPO.
So research installation cost calcs are buggy. I presume that manufacturing calcs are also buggy? |
Takanuro
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
114
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 11:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.
So, it is definitely as you want it now?
Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees?
Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
|
Lysaeus
Hoover Inc.
Pandemic Legion
31
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 11:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
The research job costs for capital ship BPOs are enormous even with this change today. Was 4.3 billion for a moros BPO to 10 (not that anyone should go that far anyway) really intended? What's worse is that we've gone from being able to do this for free at our own poses to now having to pay through the nose in addition to all the added costs of putting up our own infrastructure. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
795
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 11:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
Funny, it's a great time to be a t2 mod inventer. Invention costs are below what i was originally paying at my pos.
I get 300 times the use out of bpcs now, so my stock pile of 300+ per mod do to my cycle method means i don't have to stress about copying anytime soon.
My build times on general dropped by a factor of 4, my invention times increased, but are still able to be cycled 3 times a day (before work, after, and before bed). And build costs for 100 mods is negligible.
Materials are now easier as i don't have to worry about minerals save for morphite except when making the t1 parts.
And the UI makes running jobs easier.
Loving the patch myself. |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
2491
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 12:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Takanuro wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now. So, it is definitely as you want it now? Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees?
It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices.
If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack. |
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
1558
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 12:17:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Takanuro wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now. So, it is definitely as you want it now? Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees? It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices. If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack. I assume OP was referring to total installation costs (including all components) being 1.8 Bil?
I'm playing around with it the info UI at the moment (even though I cannot build capitals myself), and I'm getting figures ranging from as low as 1 Mil in certain FW lowsec systems to 100 Mil in Sobaseki (1j from Jita), just for the final assembly of an Obelisk in an NPC station.
OP, have you noticed how much it would cost you in other systems? Including lowsec, which seems incredibly cheap atm.
EVE Online: Death-o-meter |
Scaugh
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
61
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 12:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Takanuro wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now. So, it is definitely as you want it now? Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees? It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices. If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack.
I'm not seeing 500m installation cost for a freighter but I am seeing a 209,465,721 isk installation cost for a phobos in Jel (highsec). Come on now a 209m fee to start a single T2 cruiser build.
Way way way out of whack.
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
1558
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 12:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Scaugh wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Takanuro wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now. So, it is definitely as you want it now? Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees? It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices. If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack. I'm not seeing 500m installation cost for a freighter but I am seeing a 209,465,721 isk installation cost for a phobos in Jel (highsec). Come on now a 209m fee to start a single T2 cruiser build. Way way way out of whack. Out of curiosity, what's the lowest cost you can get in a lowsec NPC station you can 'see' on your UI?
EVE Online: Death-o-meter |
Steijn
Quay Industries
560
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 12:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Scaugh wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Takanuro wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now. So, it is definitely as you want it now? Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees? It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices. If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack. I'm not seeing 500m installation cost for a freighter but I am seeing a 209,465,721 isk installation cost for a phobos in Jel (highsec). Come on now a 209m fee to start a single T2 cruiser build. Way way way out of whack.
yesterday i went thru prices on the T2 BPCs that i currently have in Essence, highest manufacturing cost i found was under 10m. These included hulk, mackinaw, curse, bombers, intys etc. so think you are doing something wrong somewhere to get 200m+ |
Scaugh
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
61
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 13:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Scaugh wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Takanuro wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now. So, it is definitely as you want it now? Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees? It looks like it's working by design now, yes. Researching big expensive blueprints to high levels can cost a large amount of money now - it's up to you to decide if the investment is worth it. You may find that shopping around further afield will result in cheaper prices. If anyone is still seeing a 500m installation cost to build 1 freighter, please let me know, that sounds out of whack. I'm not seeing 500m installation cost for a freighter but I am seeing a 209,465,721 isk installation cost for a phobos in Jel (highsec). Come on now a 209m fee to start a single T2 cruiser build. Way way way out of whack. yesterday i went thru prices on the T2 BPCs that i currently have in Essence, highest manufacturing cost i found was under 10m. These included hulk, mackinaw, curse, bombers, intys etc. so think you are doing something wrong somewhere to get 200m+
I'm not m8. the BPC is for 10 runs and the 10 runs totals 2,094,657,210
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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
2491
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 13:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
We are seeing excessively high costs which I believe are linked to previewing a job in a location that's not actually valid. If you're seeing very high costs, can you confirm whether or not they are set up such that you could actually start them if you wanted to and had the materials? |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
2491
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 13:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Seems to confirm on TQ, if you try to preview manufacturing cost in a facility without a manufacturing capability, the cost is "wrong" (ie gigantic). This is essentially a UI issue, working on a fix for this. |
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
169
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 13:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:We are seeing excessively high costs which I believe are linked to previewing a job in a location that's not actually valid. If you're seeing very high costs, can you confirm whether or not they are set up such that you could actually start them if you wanted to and had the materials?
CCP Greyscale wrote:Seems to confirm on TQ, if you try to preview manufacturing cost in a facility without a manufacturing capability, the cost is "wrong" (ie gigantic). This is essentially a UI issue, working on a fix for this.
I can verify this. I put up a POS in a system that has an NPC station with no labs. I have a corp office in that station and I had some blueprints both in the office and the POS.
1. Install costs for BPs in the POS was very reasonable.
2. I accidentally clicked on a BP that was in the station (no lab, same system) instead of the POS and the install cost was astronomical (at least 100x more).
3. After I moved said BP to the POS and tried to install it, the install costs were again very reasonable.
So maybe the issue isn't with the install costs, it's with calculated/displayed install costs for BPs in a location without proper facilities to perform the task in question?
Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1474
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 13:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
can confirm that makes a massive difference.
minmatar control tower, ME from 7 to 10
11.3b when previewed in a manufacturing station
419m when previewed in a lab in the same system
220m for some lowsec station not far away
GRRR Goons |
Mal Nina
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
47
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 14:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
I have seen massive costs increase.
Just 4 T3 parts BPOs that used to be ME perfect cost me in excess of 70 mil to upgrade from 7 to 10 at my own pos. 36 mil for one, 23 mil, 15 mil and 1 mil. have no idea why the huge spread in costs. (this was yesterday)
From a game design perspective you have some niche production that teams are totally broken on. This is very apparent on low number parts input high value end item production. For example, there is not a team I would hire to make T3s. The best team I could find actually costs me an extra 110,000 for the privilege of using them and that is without the fixed cost of hiring them. I do find it humorous that someone is paying 62 mil for them. Obviously they will not be used in T3 production if they have any common sense.
We also need a solution for how things get paid for as I expressed before the change. Depending on what corporate account you have defaulted ... That is the one that is being charged. This has to be a mess for any corporations bookkeeping. You need a choice of what accounts to use for the charges to produce at your own POS now when you place a job. And a way to default the account to be used. There is also no way to tell who instigated the charges against the corporate accounts. You need to know what players are racking up what charges... not some fictitious NPC organization.
Copy costs are reasonable. Have not tried to invent yet. |
Gulch P13
Victorious Secret.
Cult of War
6
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 16:28:00 -
[44] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:
EPIC FAIL!!!!
Did I just time travel back to 2004?
|
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
156
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 16:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:Velators at dawn anyone?
I think I'll name my next (everything but science and industry) corp that.
Confirming Velators at Dawn would be an awesome corp name.
Also, if you actually want to duel in velators message me in game, I'll be online in about 9-10 hours, around 01:00 - 02:00 and I think dueling in velators could be fun.
CCP is looking into the pricing, they suspect it is not actually working as intended. Also, the market prices will adjust with time, you can't just expect to build for the same cost as you could before and sell for profit, we knew the job installation costs would be increasing, so we'll just have to wait till the supplies dry up. You're not the only one who cannot build freighters for profit, which means NO ONE will be building freighters AT ALL. With Code continuing to blow the crap out of freighters, prices should catch up to new manufacturing costs before too long. |
SamuelAdams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 16:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Couldnt all this indy "change" have been done much simpler?
Feck me, I have enough math to deal with at work.
 |
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
157
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 17:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
I'm actually looking forward to the challenges myself. I'm liking that it will be more complex then before, but simpler to maintain. |
Ginger Barbarella
1953
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 17:09:00 -
[48] - Quote
SamuelAdams wrote:Couldnt all this indy "change" have been done much simpler? Feck me, I have enough math to deal with at work.
CCP has always crowd-sourced the testing of their codebase. :) Sorta like how they crowd-source all of their product documentation.
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Ginger Barbarella
1953
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 17:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
Katherine Raven wrote:I'm actually looking forward to the challenges myself. I'm liking that it will be more complex then before, but simpler to maintain.
Unnecessary complexity is not a good thing for a product you're charging people for.
"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Steijn
Quay Industries
562
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 17:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
Katherine Raven wrote:Clara Tironis wrote:Velators at dawn anyone?
I think I'll name my next (everything but science and industry) corp that. Confirming Velators at Dawn would be an awesome corp name. Also, if you actually want to duel in velators message me in game, I'll be online in about 9-10 hours, around 01:00 - 02:00 and I think dueling in velators could be fun. CCP is looking into the pricing, they suspect it is not actually working as intended. Also, the market prices will adjust with time, you can't just expect to build for the same cost as you could before and sell for profit, we knew the job installation costs would be increasing, so we'll just have to wait till the supplies dry up. You're not the only one who cannot build freighters for profit, which means NO ONE will be building freighters AT ALL. With Code continuing to blow the crap out of freighters, prices should catch up to new manufacturing costs before too long.
another here that has stopped building freighters for now. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1475
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 17:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
if i were you i would continue to make freighters. and sell once the market has dried up :)
GRRR Goons |
Meldan Anstian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 17:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
I am largely not a fan of this expansion.
The pricing and cost issues will work themselves out at some point as the market establishes a new balance. So I am not worried about that.
The job cost bug that is discussed here is troubling. That's a significant item that this expansion implements and to see that it has so many problems with it is not indicative of a well thought out, programmed and tested mechanic.
It was already pretty complex to figure costs and profits out before this expansion, and they constantly changed. Now, you add in this system cost index, shown to us in a red bar. I have not found a way to determine how much hauling a buncha crap from your current system to another system will reduce your installation costs. The bar (in theory) changes from more red to less red..... whoopie....and I put that in my spreadsheet how?
Yup, systems less busy are cheaper to produce at. Then you spend more time/money hauling supplies to and products from the remote system. The cost scaling mechanic adds alot of complexity and ends up being largely a wash IMO.
The whole team thing appears to be a fail. There was not a single team available in Metropolis this morning, to do anything, and very few in the whole universe. Adds complexity again and is poorly explained. Team reduces materials by 2%, but costs 6% (of what???) and you have to bid on them? How long does the team work for me? What happens if I have a 2 week job and they work for me for a week?
I do like the new interface, so that's a plus. I like the no more slots thing as well. I really like that you can click on reprocessing and get a estimate of the value of reprocessing and see if it makes sense to reprocess or sell it.
The really important question is..... where can you buy monocle bluep |
Steijn
Quay Industries
562
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 17:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:if i were you i would continue to make freighters. and sell once the market has dried up :)
not convinced CCP have the price issues sorted out yet. |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
5
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 22:09:00 -
[54] - Quote
At hi-sec POS LSAA just now: 1 run Obelisk manufacturing installation cost (ME -10%) = 5,372,314 ISK
At Hyasyoda lab: TE research 0 to - 20% = 431,247,289 ISK
At Hyasyoda lab: TE research 0 to - 14% = 32,006,635 ISK
I think I can work with these numbers.
Back in station (no industry facilities) the quote for TE 0-20% research on same BPO = 88.839 billion ISK (so useless). |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
3956
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 22:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:At hi-sec POS LSAA just now: 1 run Obelisk manufacturing installation cost (ME -10%) = 5,372,314 ISK
At Hyasyoda lab: TE research 0 to - 20% = 431,247,289 ISK
At Hyasyoda lab: TE research 0 to - 14% = 32,006,635 ISK
I think I can work with these numbers.
Those are bearable [assuming ME is similar].
Thanks for posting your findings. |
Chip Yanumano
Hospipilgrim Shipyards
0
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 23:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Seems to confirm on TQ, if you try to preview manufacturing cost in a facility without a manufacturing capability, the cost is "wrong" (ie gigantic). This is essentially a UI issue, working on a fix for this.
It was doing this for invention yesterday. I checked invention cost for t2 trimarks and it came up as 35m. I realized I didn't have the design lab setup yet, and once I did the cost was like 5000isk. |
Balaster McNugget
Into The Plasma Inc
5
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 01:05:00 -
[57] - Quote
iat this point, im just looking forward to cashing out on all my BPO's and POS structures that I wont be needing anymore |
Zetaomega333
HIFI INDUSTRIAL
The Kadeshi
85
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 04:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
So before the investment for getting expensive bpos to higher levels, ie capitals was a long time, months per a level or portions of a year. Now ontop of that you have to pay an insane amount of money that will take 5+ years of constant building to even come close to recuping the costs of researching it to the level. I had an archon bpo that was going to cost 7 billion to take to level 10 me. This ballance doesnt seem right, If your going to charge an obscene amount of isk to research somthing to a high level you shouldnt also have to wait forever for it to happen. |
Aria Jimbojohnson
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 05:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:SamuelAdams wrote:Couldnt all this indy "change" have been done much simpler? Feck me, I have enough math to deal with at work. CCP has always crowd-sourced the testing of their codebase. :) Sorta like how they crowd-source all of their product documentation.
Crowdsourcing is one thing. Deploying a new build like 2 days before live, crowdsourcing and still launching with most of the reported issues and shortcomings in place? That's a whole 'nother story. ::CCP:: |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
687
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 10:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Meldan Anstian wrote:
It was already pretty complex to figure costs and profits out before this expansion, and they constantly changed. Now, you add in this system cost index, shown to us in a red bar. I have not found a way to determine how much hauling a buncha crap from your current system to another system will reduce your installation costs. The bar (in theory) changes from more red to less red - whoopie -and I put that in my spreadsheet how?
Precisely. CCP made everything "wow more complex - hehe - a landscape for industry!" but what that "landscape" actually is is a landscape of players out of game pouring over Excel sheets and scratching their heads. |
shockwaves2009
Organized-Research
Apocalypse Now.
6
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 12:37:00 -
[61] - Quote
the problem off all higher prices on research and manufacturing is not only a problem for the industry people
if research and manufacturing is more expansive then before all prices will go up and on that way
ccp will make eve more expansive then it was and i think it will be not a good idea
normal i deliver all normal carriers around the 900 mil ( for blue's only )
but with this change i need to be allot higher iff i also calculate the extra research and manufacturing prices
and all over eve people have the same problems
|
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
34
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 12:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
OP, just move out of hi-sec...my alts operating system cost lower than before.
Just Add Water |
Scaugh
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
62
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 12:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:OP, just move out of hi-sec...my alts operating system cost lower than before.
what you are confirming here is that after 10 + yeas of trying CCP have finally nerfed the sh1te out of high sec manufacture and research. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
691
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 13:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
Scaugh wrote:Nat Silverguard wrote:OP, just move out of hi-sec...my alts operating system cost lower than before. what you are confirming here is that after 10 + yeas of trying CCP have finally nerfed the sh1te out of high sec manufacture and research.
No, CCP hasn't tried to nerf high sec manufacture and research before. So what you mean is this:
"what you are confirming here is that after for the first time in 10+ yeas of not bothering, CCP have finally nerfed the sh1te out of high sec manufacture and research" |
Helion Exus
Saitek Enterprises
5
|
Posted - 2014.07.24 13:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
I'm going to hold off manufacturing more freighters until prices settle down a bit.
I live in a low-pop system that always had over 50% of the manufacturing slots free to use. I was quoted ~80m for my freighter build, and I assume that the materials to produce the components would also set me back another 80m. So that's 160m in additional cost on an item that had a margin of 200 or so. On top of that the time to manufacture has increased from 9 days to 11 or something.
So, ISK/Hr just dropped from 0.9m to 0.15  |
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