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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 06:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Crius.
I was looking forward to seeing how things went. New opportunities and a fresh way of doing things.
EPIC FAIL!!!!,
Reason: it will now cost ~ 0.5B ISK more in installation fees to produce an Obelisk in my home system (dead end hi-sec, 14 or so jumps from Jita, 5 from Dodixie, no NPC industry facilities, just me and my 2 other accounts and a POS) than I'll get from selling it on the market. So, time mining vs mineral buy costs + loss from grossly excessive installation fees. I can't see how hiring a team to defray the extra cost will even spit in the ocean . Plus no stacking bonus on POSdules.
Way to kill off Science and Industry in a single stroke CCP! Good job (but I won't be starting any more)
That's 3 accounts from a previously loyal customer that you have jeopardised. I get the feeling that many others will be thinking very seriously about in subbing too if this isn't fixed to something that is more reasonable.
Is this why the economics Prof. resigned in such a hurry? Could he see the impending crash of the production side of the EvE economy coming?
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Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
276
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Posted - 2014.07.23 06:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
The sky isnt falling yet, a new balance has to be found before prices can be taken seriously.
Old stockpiles might have to run out before the new reality hits home. |
D4mane
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2014.07.23 06:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
And this is just the begining.
Good luck moving at 50% more isotopes consuption. Good luck adding another spreadsheet with "moving logistics" to your repertoire. This game is 95% logistics, 4% looking for a fight, 1% the actual fight. Lets get to the next level CCP.
Nevermind everything getting more expensive to build.
In some cases:
Small t2 Rigs, the waste that could be eliminated previously is no more thus resulting in a 100% increase of the required t2 salvage. GG
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erg cz
Sliperer
94
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Posted - 2014.07.23 06:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
On the other hand it wanted less, then 100 ISK from me to produce banch of small ammo on a station industrial facility. I believe it was like 333 ISK pre-patch. So expensive stuff will become even more expensive , cheap - even more cheap, IMHO. |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 06:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well that's ok then. I'll be able to afford the ammo for my Velator. |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 07:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
So, does anyone want to buy an Obelisk from me for 3.5 billion ISK?
1.2 bn mineral cost (including increased capital construction components post Crius - previously maxed ME BPO - now 1 extra capital cargo bay and 1 extra something else) + 1.8bn job installation cost + sales cost + a modest profit (hardly worth my while)?
Oh, and now I'll need the ISK up front from customers, sorry!
Lead time: 4 to 6 weeks. ( the minerals don't just appear from nowhere at downtime, you know!). |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
1034
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Posted - 2014.07.23 07:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
am i the only one who is re-writing his training plans and mining alts into industry/research? |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People
Of Sound Mind
157
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Posted - 2014.07.23 07:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
I am a little concerned on costs too. Whilst not as excessive as your 0.5b, I found 27m and 66 days to research a destroyer BPOs TE to 20%.
I am wondering if in the example of your Obelisk (and indeed everything else out there with a stupid fee attached to it) that the prices will gravitate upwards once current stock levels are depleted.
Essentially though if CCP don't revisit it or fix it and people leave then ultimately they will kill off their own game.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 07:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
The 0.5 billion was the loss purely on the production cost vs sales price. The install quote I got was 1.8bn!!!!!
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Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 08:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm also getting a quote for 3.5 billion to research the Obelisk BPO to TE 20. In just under 300 days as I recall. |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 08:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
So you can add that to the lead time.  |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 08:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rowells wrote:am i the only one who is re-writing his training plans and mining alts into industry/research?
I'm thinking of sending my industry/mining main to go and learn PvP. (And lapse the rest of my alts).
Velators at dawn anyone?
Won't be able to afford to manufacture anything more expensive now.
Free ship when you get blown up? Well that's ok then.
If someone wants to replace my Kronos anytime I get ganked then I'll be fine with that too. Just don't ask me to produce from my T2 BPCs without cash up front! |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 08:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Build it and they will come?
Seriously?
Build it and go bust, more like.
Or say your going to build it and they come blow up your POS with you shiny 6billion BPO in it before the job is completed.
Hmmmmm.
Velators at dawn anyone?
I think I'll name my next (everything but science and industry corp) that. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
3944
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Posted - 2014.07.23 08:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
People really should read the issues thread. [Click on the blue DEV badges.]
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Victor Helion wrote:Job costs on ME research appear to be completely screwed. Just plugged in a fullerene intercalated sheets BPO in one of my tower labs to ME10 and this happened:
2014.07.22 15:59:07Researching Material Efficiency-255,002,744.00 ISK Material efficiency research job fee between Helion Ventures and Secure Commerce Commission (Job ID: 229989219)
That's 255 million isk to research a BPO that costs 10m to buy. We have begun looking into the cost system to see if the prices it is requiring are correct or not.
CCP Greyscale wrote:Looks like something is indeed amiss with research pricing, we're investigating.
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Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 09:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thanks for pointing this out but something buried in the Issues thread is not the big news at the moment. It's shock. Disbelief. Demoralisation. Dismay.
And recriminations. |
Amseln deBrabant
Ochsenbruegger
11
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Posted - 2014.07.23 09:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:Thanks for pointing this out but something buried in the Issues thread is not the big news at the moment. It's shock. Disbelief. Demoralisation. Dismay.
And recriminations. adapt or die, welcome to eve, and can i have your stuff, plz?
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Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 09:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
You can have a freighter for 10bn in 6 to 8 weeks if you pay up front. |
Ixidor Zorander
Coffee Club of Cautelous Chaps
1
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Posted - 2014.07.23 09:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:Thanks for pointing this out but something buried in the Issues thread is not the big news at the moment. It's shock. Disbelief. Demoralisation. Dismay.
And recriminations.
sounds like my morning when I noticed upping a chimera bpo to ME 10 was 140b
staring at the monitor doing double takes almost expecting the price to change, getting up for coffee sitting back down and stareing, counting the commas (hundreds, thousands, millions, billions) deciding wow, ccp must be calculating this with three decimal places, soo 140 MILLION. moveing my isk into corp wallet to find I dont have enough to do the job... because its ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY BILLLLLLIIIOOOOON...... ridiculous.... |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
69
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Posted - 2014.07.23 09:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:I'm also getting a quote for 3.5 billion to research the Obelisk BPO to TE 20. In just under 300 days as I recall.
Why on earth didn't you raise your bpo's to me 10, and te 10 before the patch hit?
I'm a relative beginner to industry but I cancelled blueprints that were cooking to 300 me/te when I realised I only needed 10 me/te and saved a lot of queue time. Now i'm sitting with a bunch of them all at -10%, -20%.
Everyone has known about this for months now.
Yesterday I put some T2 ammo to manufacture, at a cost of 317 isk in a npc station :-)
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Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2014.07.23 10:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
I was in the middle of getting ME to 16 (perfect) went the patch was announced and needed the BPO to run a job. No way I could have started TE before the patch on that one. Nearly all my other (100s) BPOs are now ME 10 % TE 20%, thankfully. Just about 20 rig BPOs to get to ME 10% from 0, for an insane amount of installation cost (and time ) post Crius,
And I've shelved any plans to get into other racial T1 ship BPOs until this has all sorted itself out. That's if I'm still interested in industry if the costs are not fixed to a reasonable level. I'm absolutely sure that it was not intended that installation costs for a freighter manufacturing or research job in a 0.01 cost scaling factor system should be more than 100% of the mineral (i.e. Input cost) . At least, that wasn't my reading of the Dev Blogs and forum post prior to the evil patch. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
69
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Posted - 2014.07.23 10:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Clara Tironis wrote:I was in the middle of getting ME to 16 (perfect) went the patch was announced and needed the freighter BPO to run some jobs. No way I could have started TE or got it more than PE 1 before the patch on that one. Nearly all my other (100s) BPOs are now ME 10 % TE 20%, thankfully. Just about 20 rig BPOs to get to ME 10% from 0, for an insane amount of installation cost (and time ) post Crius, of course.
And I've shelved any plans to get into other racial T1 ship BPOs until this has all sorted itself out. That's if I'm still interested in industry if the costs are not fixed to a reasonable level. I'm absolutely sure that it was not intended that installation costs for a freighter manufacturing or research job in a 0.01 cost scaling factor system should be more than 100% of the mineral (i.e. Input cost) . At least, that wasn't my reading of the Dev Blogs and forum post prior to the evil patch.
Fair enough, I have to agree that the cost of researching/manufacturing big stuff seems a bit steep though, i'll stick to my T1 bits and bobs for now, with the odd low lvl T2 ammo or drone thrown in.
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
2420
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Posted - 2014.07.23 10:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
OP, you're in a bind of your own making, because the maths are something to the effect of
install cost (reduction?) = install base cost * ( 1/ (activity in this system / activity across new eden)) , further modifiable by teams and whatnot. So, if you have (for example) 5% of the TOTAL MFG INPUT (i.e. "Jobs started") in your system for the last 28 days, then your install cost = base_install * 0.95.
Now, this also has an upper-limit function where if the system has more than x% of the job installations, then prices start rising again (taxes to keep the space EPA happy or some BS like that).
However, CCP also ignored the problems in SISI, because "well we pulled TQ data for this part, so the numbers are skewed to be godawful, it'll be fine on TQ".
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
675
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Posted - 2014.07.23 10:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
So nobody's confirmed it's an actual bug or working as intended. I say hold fire on all jobs until you know. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
675
|
Posted - 2014.07.23 10:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rowells wrote:am i the only one who is re-writing his training plans and mining alts into industry/research?
It's quite mysterious to me why you think the new system is any different from the old one in terms of what you actually do. So I have absolutely no idea why you would suddenly be interested in industry now when you weren't before, except the fact you might be a lemming and hyper-sensitive to marketing. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
770
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Posted - 2014.07.23 11:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.
CCP Nullarbor //-áExotic Dancer-á// DEVGIFS |
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Winthorp
2275
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Posted - 2014.07.23 11:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.
See he isn't just talking about research costs though like i asked you in another thread.
Is it working as intended that an freighter in any region regardless of its scaling should cost 500m ISK to make 1x freighter? |
Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2014.07.23 11:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.
Thankyou, kind sir!
I was hoping that there was an error in the calculations.
Back to business.....! |
Takanuro
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
114
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Posted - 2014.07.23 11:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.
Amen for that.
I personally didn't start any jobs as costs were crazy, but I'm wondering if there will be reimbursement for those unfortunate souls that 'trusted' the expansion as being correct and stumped up crazy isk to get researching?
Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
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Clara Tironis
C AND N Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2014.07.23 11:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:
See he isn't just talking about research costs though like i asked you in another thread.
Is it working as intended that an freighter in any region regardless of its scaling should cost 500m ISK to make 1x freighter?
Actually, the cost was 1.8bn for the 1 run installation cost. It was 3.5 bn for TE 0 to 20% on the same obelisk BPO.
So research installation cost calcs are buggy. I presume that manufacturing calcs are also buggy? |
Takanuro
Biohazard.
WINMATAR.
114
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Posted - 2014.07.23 11:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Research costs were being calculated incorrectly, we have a fix going out right now.
So, it is definitely as you want it now?
Archon ME9 > ME10 I'm seeing quote of 1.7b, yesterday afternoon this was about 2.2b iirc so it does seem to have changed but it really is a cataclysmic change to pre-Crius. Looking around at wider region the quotes are 800mil-2.5bil, I'm also wondering whether cost index (is that the main cost change varient in play here?) is meant to create such a wide bracket of potential fees?
Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
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