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DeadRow
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
268
|
Posted - 2014.07.27 22:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Access denied. Oh, and, stay out of Syndicate for the safety of yourself and crew.
I guess a limpwristed threat always helps helps reinforce your point!
And interesting read never-the-less, Oniseki.
~Hikari |

Vincent Pryce
Utopian Research I.E.L.
164
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 06:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
An interesting read, miss Oniseki. Most interesting indeed. I applaud you and yours on being able to make this project happen in the face of adversity. I look forward to hearing how the project moves on without direct I-RED involvement. Vincent Pryce Archangel of Asakai |

Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
3889
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 06:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
Calairis wrote:Bryen Verrisai wrote:Very Caldari-minded, that group is. A notion that strikes me as rather ironic. It's no stretch to say that the Senate and the the CEP are looking more and more alike with each passing election.
They always were. Ours are just a little more answerable to us, as stockholders, that's all. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |

Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
782
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 11:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Illustrious project. Not really surprised to see some simpleminded outrage at the hint of what happens when reality interferes with noble plans, both because it's offering that sweet feeling of vindication and because this is the IGS and it's the reason we all come here.
Don't mind him, though, he's doing this as his job, it's probably not even his own opinion. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |

Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
857
|
Posted - 2014.07.28 16:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:Illustrious project. Not really surprised to see some simpleminded outrage at the hint of what happens when reality interferes with noble plans, both because it's offering that sweet feeling of vindication and because this is the IGS and it's the reason we all come here.
Don't mind him, though, he's doing this as his job, it's probably not even his own opinion. I would like to take this opportunity to say that some of us Gallente are a bit more pragmatic then that. So before it devolves into racism, he doesn't speak for all of us. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |

Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
113
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 18:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote: the inclusion of religious proselytizing as part of the programme. It was shown early on that the populations of the selected colonies were both aimless and self-centered, unwilling to grasp the concepts of collective good and focus their efforts on improving life. Research had also shown during out Intaki campaign that 'free populations' unbound to any other commitment but themselves are easily swayed by zeal and faith. Thus, we found contract with varying Amarr-aligned groups to bring the Faith to Syndicate.
The resulting effects of religious conversion showed a marked change for better OR worse, depending on the colony. Colony FT-9715 reacted violently within two weeks and was summarily excised from the program. Colony DD-8153 tripled its concurrent workload on its own and finished the entire project seven months ahead of schedule. Most remaining colonies remained marginally affected, with a trend towards improvement. .
I-Red is to be commended for recognizing the value of structured spirituality to an Ordered, Community-Centered and Productive Society.
I join in Director Mithra's sentiments with respect to this worthy initiative.
|

Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
3894
|
Posted - 2014.07.29 20:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote: I-Red is to be commended for recognizing the value of structured spirituality to an Ordered, Community-Centered and Productive Society.
I agree, I'm just surprised they didn't choose Wayism as the religion to be exported. Perhaps the fact that it isn't really a proselyting faith is at the heart of the decision. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3282
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 00:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Precisely, Tuulinen, but also keep in mind that Wayism is not a product to be exported. It is neither something I personally care to share with foreigners. It was mostly a personal decision not to risk insulting my own faith by trying to convert a bunch of outsiders to it.
Besides, Wayism is less efficient as a behavioral modifier when applied outside of existing Caldari culture. The Amarr faith has a proven track record of adjusting the behavioral patterns of entire civilizations simply by its introduction, even without force of arms. When considered as a method of population control, Amarr is easily the more practical choice. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |

Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
3895
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 04:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Precisely, Tuulinen, but also keep in mind that Wayism is not a product to be exported. It is neither something I personally care to share with foreigners. It was mostly a personal decision not to risk insulting my own faith by trying to convert a bunch of outsiders to it.
Besides, Wayism is less efficient as a behavioral modifier when applied outside of existing Caldari culture. The Amarr faith has a proven track record of adjusting the behavioral patterns of entire civilizations simply by its introduction, even without force of arms. When considered as a method of population control, Amarr is easily the more practical choice.
Well, it isn't the product I'd buy, personally, but we should consider the audience we're selling to, I suppose.
I thought that might be your reasoning and I can't really find fault with it. "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
692
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 06:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
So it turns out a little Caldari pragmatism can make even the Empire's dodderings useful. That's both scary and reassuring. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
|

Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 06:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jinari Otsito wrote:So it turns out a little Caldari pragmatism can make even the Empire's dodderings useful. That's both scary and reassuring.
Really admirable traits we can learn from. |

Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1196
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 14:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
In short...
While the State wages war and requires all the resources to deal with external threat, or at least to support our own colonies and our own peoples, this I-RED organization prefers to EMBEZZLE Caldari resources on JAIJII outside even of State territorial zones of interest.
I would like to remind everyone, that I-RED were always hiding from serving their duty to the State, and lately - in null security space, and at one point, they were even official blue and flying together with Federal militia.
Everyone who affiliates with this corporation are under direct threat of becoming traitors and enemies of the State, and are strongly advised to review their contracts. |

Anslo
Scope Works
6178
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 14:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
You're already a traitor for your provist association. Your opinion literally means jack ****. Also they're spreading state influence well beyond the bounds of any other group. While you waste time on systems going back and forth, they bypass the pointless war act system and strike out to nul to sow seeds of what may well be future systems of the state.
So yeah they're doing more than you. Nice try though.
|

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
692
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 15:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
How can you manage to be raised and educated by the State and still not grasp basic principles like expanding markets, resource exploitation and consolidating territory? What they're doing in Syndicate damn near epitomizes every core value we hold dear in the State, unlike your nutbag "kill the feddies raarrrr!" spiel, seriously.
Among the many duties citizens of the State have, fighting in the militias is somewhere near the bottom. Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
|

Pieter Tuulinen
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
3896
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 15:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Also, if we're going to talk about embezzling State funds... Who was the guy indicted for the largest case of embezzlement again? Just recently... Hoth.... Hath...
Oh, no. It was Heth.
And didn't he also seize everyone elses Black Rise systems, too? "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new is it? Every now and then a little victim is allowed to escape; because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions." "Only a killer would know that..." |

Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
3282
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 15:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
Let's be honest. Did any of us expect her to leave an intelligent comment here?
Yes Kimmie Kims, we are the very bads. I-RED not knowings how State! Please teach us the Caldarians! Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |

Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1196
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 15:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
Anslo wrote:You're already a traitor for your provist association. Your opinion literally means jack ****. Also they're spreading state influence well beyond the bounds of any other group. While you waste time on systems going back and forth, they bypass the pointless war act system and strike out to nul to sow seeds of what may well be future systems of the state.
So yeah they're doing more than you. Nice try though. And you are a gallentean ignorant. First. I never betrayed the State. Second, they did. Third, they hide in practically useless nullsec. Fourth, the State is in war. Five, I never heard a meaningful opinion from YOU yet. |

Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1196
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jinari Otsito wrote:How can you manage to be raised and educated by the State and still not grasp basic principles like expanding markets, resource exploitation and consolidating territory? What they're doing in Syndicate damn near epitomizes every core value we hold dear in the State, unlike your nutbag "kill the feddies raarrrr!" spiel, seriously.
Among the many duties citizens of the State have, fighting in the militias is somewhere near the bottom. Oh, I understand principles of expanding markets and resource exploitation very well, and its't not about my grasping of these principles but about your ignorance and lack of awareness about what is going on around the State. Or it isn't ignorance and just your traitorous behaviour, how you neglect interests of all Caldari peoples and mock at the war, that State fights, and fights for future of our (obviously not your anymore) nation.
Luckily, everything you can do, is just open your mouth and belch that nonsense, while what we do here, is protecting the State and the values of Caldari people by actions. And we will succeed, while your ilk will disappear in time and die out.
Glory to the State! |

Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1196
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Also, if we're going to talk about embezzling State funds... Who was the guy indicted for the largest case of embezzlement again? Just recently... Hoth.... Hath...
Oh, no. It was Heth.
And didn't he also seize everyone elses Black Rise systems, too? You are talking like anti-Caldari traitor now. Heth-haan used money to wage war for future and prosperity of all Caldari. |

Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1196
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Let's be honest. Did any of us expect her to leave an intelligent comment here?
Yes Kimmie Kims, we are the very bads. I-RED not knowings how State! Please teach us the Caldarians! Ms. Oniseki, thank you for you... "intelligent comment". I would prefer instead talking to someone, who wrote your this report that you posted in this board. |

Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
862
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 16:57:00 -
[51] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:Let's be honest. Did any of us expect her to leave an intelligent comment here?
Yes Kimmie Kims, we are the very bads. I-RED not knowings how State! Please teach us the Caldarians! Ms. Oniseki, thank you for you... "intelligent comment". I would prefer to instead talking to someone, who wrote your this report that you posted in this board. Honest question, Kimmy, and I'm not trying to be offensive. What do you gain from this? I-RED basically just indebted several colonies to their corporations, and thus the state. There are more ways to beat your enemy then just shooting them, and I-RED employ them very well. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |

Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1200
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 17:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote: Honest question, Kimmy, and I'm not trying to be offensive. What do you gain from this? I-RED basically just indebted several colonies to their corporations, and thus the state. There are more ways to beat your enemy then just shooting them, and I-RED employ them very well.
Ms. Osyn, neither Intaki, nor Syndicate, nor even pirates Serpentis are at war with the State, while the Federation is. And the State fights for Caldari people, not for people of Syndicate. They are already free from Federal occupation, while many other Intakis are still held as federal puppets.
What do I want to gain? This is rather simple. I want for every available personnel and resource was used in interests of the State and Caldari people, and not in interests of semi-criminal jaijii and paramilitary mercenary corporation, that claims to be "Caldari", while in fact evading service to the State and making ties to enemies of the State. |

Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
862
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 20:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote: Honest question, Kimmy, and I'm not trying to be offensive. What do you gain from this? I-RED basically just indebted several colonies to their corporations, and thus the state. There are more ways to beat your enemy then just shooting them, and I-RED employ them very well.
Ms. Osyn, neither Intaki, nor Syndicate, nor even pirates Serpentis are at war with the State, while the Federation is. And the State fights for Caldari people, not for people of Syndicate. They are already free from Federal occupation, while many other Intakis are still held as federal puppets. What do I want to gain? This is rather simple. I want for every available personnel and resource was used in interests of the State and Caldari people, and not in interests of semi-criminal jaijii and paramilitary mercenary corporation, that claims to be "Caldari", while in fact evading service to the State and making ties to enemies of the State. The Intaki are part of the Federation, so warring with the Feds means warring with the Intaki. That aside, from my perspective, I-RED has done more to hurt Gallente war efforts then the entirety of the FW fleets by befriending our allies and internal factions, thus taking the proverbial wind from our sails on the battlefield. Their PR department has kept at least as many Federation assets of the field to begin with as you have destroyed. So, are they traitors because they don't serve in the same capacity as you? The lack of money is the root of all evil. |

Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
1201
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 21:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote: The Intaki are part of the Federation, so warring with the Feds means warring with the Intaki.
Ms. Osyn.... should I put on my professor glasses and make some educational lectures again for gallenteans, who are taught nothing but vote in their schools? Or maybe we could make a gallentean actually think? Lets make an experiment.
Okay, Ms. Osyn. Could you answer a set of easy question: Who are Syndicate? What are main nationality of peoples in Syndicate? Is Syndicate part of Federation?
Who are Mordu legion? What are their nationality? Whom Mordu fight with and against during previous Caldar-Gallente war two hundred years ago?
Claudia Osyn wrote:That aside, from my perspective, I-RED has done more to hurt Gallente war efforts then the entirety of the FW fleets by befriending our allies and internal factions, thus taking the proverbial wind from our sails on the battlefield. Their PR department has kept at least as many Federation assets of the field to begin with as you have destroyed. Ms. Osyn... I feel you have a bit too vivid imagination. The only thing what I-RED did, is pulling resources to null security space.
We need ships, we need weapons, we need pilots, we need capsuleers, and we need loyal citizens. Whatever they do, Caldari do not need.
And I would recommend looking at things straight, as they are, with... proper... perspective, and not through broken mirror. Thanks.
Claudia Osyn wrote:So, are they traitors because they don't serve in the same capacity as you? *sigh* No, Ms. Osyn. They are traitors, because they were flying under banner of gallente militia. |

Bryen Verrisai
EVE University Ivy League
222
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 21:49:00 -
[55] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:That aside, from my perspective, I-RED has done more to hurt Gallente war efforts then the entirety of the FW fleets by befriending our allies and internal factions All due respect to I-RED, that's giving them a little too much credit here. They helped out a few down-in-the-dumps planetary colonies that Syndicate couldn't be moved to give a damn about. That's certainly very nice and speaks well to the character of the corporation, but it doesn't really do much more than that. |

Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2373
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 22:07:00 -
[56] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Access denied. Oh, and, stay out of Syndicate for the safety of yourself and crew.
There is no crisis. There is only progress.
Translation: Everything is fine! Nothing to see here! Everything is fine! Nothing to see here!
The choice of the word "sterilized" does have some interesting connotations. Are you referring to the destruction of pirate entities? Those would certainly be noble and just. Though, one does have to consider the negative implications of the word. Did you render the settlement infertile so they will die out in a generation? Or are they already all dead?
The fact that you are acting quite hostile to a Federal investigation, be it an independent capsuleer or a government agency suggest that there is something to hide.
From what I'm reading, this is a takeover of an area under the guise of humanitarian aid. Expunging local culture? Check. Destabilizing local economies for your benefit? Check. Forced religious conversions? Check. Violent suppression of those who "breached the contract"? Check.
I can see the inevitable counter to my accusations already. "Doesn't the Federation do the same thing?" No, not at all. While the Federation is quite imperialist, we do things differently. We bring people to the Federation, rather than bring the Federation to them. You'll find that Jin Mei, Matari, Mannar, and even Loyal Intaki retain their culture, values, and in some cases, their own politics and currencies. These wonderful things are added to the Federation, instead of removed from these States.
Of course, it's impossible to deny that you helped these people in a lot of ways. I applaud I-RED for taking the initiative to make the lives of (some) people better. However, I condemn you for having ulterior motives behind it.
Usually I'm quite fond of I-RED, though this time I'm having uneasy feelings about what has happened. Hopefully, time will prove me wrong as I normally consider I-RED to be the model of what being a good Caldari corporation is. Though that opinion will certainly change if more Caldari military vessels begin to appear in the region, or if reports of Gallenteans being attacked by Syndicate groups armed with Caldari weaponry start to surface. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |

Bryen Verrisai
EVE University Ivy League
222
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 22:15:00 -
[57] - Quote
The only thing that struck me as particularly sketchy in the announcement was the fact that I-RED was aware that the contracts they were having signed were not actually valid, and that they withheld that information from the signers.
And on second review, the apparent mocking of freedom and liberty by Ms. Oniseki seems rather petty and, frankly, ill-informed to the point that I'm wondering whether it is simply meant to be taken in jest. |

Claudia Osyn
Mythic Security Service
863
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 22:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bryen Verrisai wrote:Claudia Osyn wrote:That aside, from my perspective, I-RED has done more to hurt Gallente war efforts then the entirety of the FW fleets by befriending our allies and internal factions All due respect to I-RED, that's giving them a little too much credit here. They helped out a few down-in-the-dumps planetary colonies that Syndicate couldn't be moved to give a damn about. That's certainly very nice and speaks well to the character of the corporation, but it doesn't really do much more than that. Ok, it is a bit exaggerated, but not by too much. Looking at what happens in the FW zone, and the impact it has on the cluster, I-RED has had a larger impact on the relationships of our empires then all of that just by making the Caldari look good. Nobody but the capsuleers involved in that war care about it. I never hear about stunning victorys one faction achieved over the other, or what it means for the empires. A couple of gatecamps is all I have ever seen of it. I-RED on the other hand I hear about more frequently, and it's normally involving deals brokered by them to bring our empires closer together. (Even if the endgame is improving their bottom line.)
As for Kimmy, the Intaki are part of the Federation. A portion of them did support the Caldari when they ceded from the Federation, but they as a people remain citizens. A Galnet search can verify this if you don't believe me. As for comparing them to the syndicate and Mordu's legion, those are both privately owned corps, not comparable to a race of people. The lack of money is the root of all evil. |

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
367
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 22:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:The fact that you are acting quite hostile to a Federal investigation, be it an independent capsuleer or a government agency suggest that there is something to hide. It might alternately simply suggest that they don't treat hostile governments and their citizens as if they'd deserve to be recieved with a red carpet rolled out for them. I-RED is under no obligation to allow Federal investigations and you demanding tsuch instead of e.g. requesting a tour, is certainly not putting them in the mood to cater to your wishes. Quite understandably so.
Having had a look at some of these colonies, I got the impression that those that held up their sides of the contracts benefitted admirably. These places were not the kind of easily romanticised civilizations the Federation likes to put as feathers on it's hat. They did real work there to improve the situation of the average joe, who previously was at the mercy of criminals. I mean, it's not like there was much of a 'local economy' to destabilize, unless you mean pirate-run extortion rings. Sure, if you ask me I'd say I-RED benefitted as well, but why do you Federals have this idea that humanitarian aid is only okay if the side providing it doesn't make a profit? The best aid is mutually beneficial.
And it's not like I-RED just financed the economical build-up of those previously God-forsaken places, they also provided aid in civilizing these former pirate holes by bringing in help for developing the cultural and ethical foundation necessary for any civilized society to thrive. |

Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2374
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 23:17:00 -
[60] - Quote
Nicoletta Mithra wrote: It might alternately simply suggest that they don't treat hostile governments and their citizens as if they'd deserve to be recieved with a red carpet rolled out for them. I-RED is under no obligation to allow Federal investigations and you demanding tsuch instead of e.g. requesting a tour, is certainly not putting them in the mood to cater to your wishes. Quite understandably so.
Would they be open to an investigation from a Caldari or Amarr source then? I'm sure that could easily be arranged. For a report labeled as "Declassified" there appears to be a lot of censorship.
Quote:Having had a look at some of these colonies, I got the impression that those that held up their sides of the contracts benefitted admirably. These places were not the kind of easily romanticised civilizations the Federation likes to put as feathers on it's hat. They did real work there to improve the situation of the average joe, who previously was at the mercy of criminals. I mean, it's not like there was much of a 'local economy' to destabilize, unless you mean pirate-run extortion rings. Sure, if you ask me I'd say I-RED benefitted as well, but why do you Federals have this idea that humanitarian aid is only okay if the side providing it doesn't make a profit? The best aid is mutually beneficial.
It's wonderful that they removed pirate influence, don't get me wrong. However, not all of these places were at the mercy of pirates. Oh sure, this starts off as "mutually beneficial", but as time goes on, not so much. Now I-RED has several colonies of indentured servants who will do their bidding whenever they play the "look at how much we helped you!" card.
Quote:And it's not like I-RED just financed the economical build-up of those previously God-forsaken places, they also provided aid in civilizing these former pirate holes by bringing in help for developing the cultural and ethical foundation necessary for any civilized society to thrive.
From the report, it looks the the "civilizing" was done by the Amarrians. That excuse hasn't ended well for the people being "civilized" in the past.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
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