The value of looted items from L4's has dropped with some items losing >50% of their value and some essentially reaching the point of being of no real ISK value at all.

I would like to see a scaling implementation of mission payouts both in terms of LP and straight ISK rewards for mission completions. I don't know if this is needed for all mission types but certainly the highsec L4 payouts need a scalable change.

Yes I'm aware of the reason for the L4 loot price drop, yes I'm aware that highsec is safer than other regions but killing off about 20-30% of our income is too much of a hit.

But I thought the way you guys made the most money from them was to completely ignore all the drops, blitz the missions as quickly as possible and just roll on to the next one?

I think whats needed is a good alternative to get people to move into different activities: not a buff.

I think whats needed is a good alternative to get people to move into different activities: not a buff.

they need more LP, and more LP items. adding more bounties or ISK rewards is just adding up to the problem.

I felt like dropping my two cents on missioning, I don't find it fun, I honestly don't think it need's a isk buff, or a isk nerf. But if I can solo lvl 4's in an omitanked Tengu perma active tanking lazily locking and pressing F1, I can personally say, missions need a buff in the 'fun' factor. Nothing about it is challenging, skillful, or runs any sorta risk.

The value of looted items from L4's has dropped with some items losing >50% of their value and some essentially reaching the point of being of no real ISK value at all.

I would like to see a scaling implementation of mission payouts both in terms of LP and straight ISK rewards for mission completions. I don't know if this is needed for all mission types but certainly the highsec L4 payouts need a scalable change.

Yes I'm aware of the reason for the L4 loot price drop, yes I'm aware that highsec is safer than other regions but killing off about 20-30% of our income is too much of a hit.

The lack of conflict in isk generation makes it far to easy. The Plex price increase simply represents an increase in the ease of making isk.

Anomalies, Missions, incursions... these all have practically zero overlap in terms of multiple pilots making money.

Rewind a few years to where 0.0 systems had 1-10 asteroid belts, with a 1-2 BS rats every 2/3 belts. Now you have 6 BS rats spawning on-top of you every few minutes in anomalies.

Sorry OP - i think ALL isk generation should be nerfed, not increased.

go null or wh if you want money.

no risk, no reward.

go null or wh if you want money.

no risk, no reward.

The value of looted items from L4's has dropped with some items losing >50% of their value and some essentially reaching the point of being of no real ISK value at all.

I would like to see a scaling implementation of mission payouts both in terms of LP and straight ISK rewards for mission completions. I don't know if this is needed for all mission types but certainly the highsec L4 payouts need a scalable change.

Yes I'm aware of the reason for the L4 loot price drop, yes I'm aware that highsec is safer than other regions but killing off about 20-30% of our income is too much of a hit.

The argument of "there's too much isk generation in the game already" may be true, but that's due to other areas being far too profitable - (yes I mean things like high sec incursions).
To those saying just run incursions then - a lot of fleets only want high skilled characters with decent ships, the people who the indirect L4 nerfs have hit most (players who are just into their first battleship and trying to get some isk generated for other things) won't easily be able to do those given the limited number of fleets and requirements they have.

Lol no. L4 missions still pay too well for how silly easy they are.

It's a gross exaggeration to say that L4 income has been generally reduced by 30% or even 20%.

Now factor in all the buffs to ships used for running missions and how they have affected ISK generation from high-sec missions.

But I thought the way you guys made the most money from them was to completely ignore all the drops, blitz the missions as quickly as possible and just roll on to the next one?

All of which existed before the nerf to ISK. I don't recall CCP saying that because of the buffs to ships used in running L4's we are going to nerf L4 ISK returns. If you have a link to such a post I would be open to discussing it further.

1. A one time increase to LP payouts (as someone else suggested the inclusion of [more?] LP items only offered by mission agents)

2. Mission payouts indexed to the value of plex (this needs to be done so that skills related to payouts retrain their value).

3. Mission rat payouts indexed to plex (there might need to be some rat payout redistribution as it currently favors killing only BS's too heavily).

This is NOT a mission income buff and I take exception to those respondents characterizing it as such. It is simply a request to compensate L4 runners for income that was effectively transferred from L4 runners to miners.

I don't think you get what I'm saying. A buff to combat ships is a buff to L4 ISK. Especially when they're Marauders and Pirate BSes, but not excluding all other types too.

First part benefits blitzers, no idea what you plan for the second part.

Would have been ideal, but CCP have already lost their grip on power creep and don't seem to have any intention of reining it back in.


They don't need to be compensated, they need to adapt.

1. CCP probably balanced mission running ships around the state of missions as they existed at the time (though i have no proof of this of course, meaning they were okay with whatever income boost these ships brought).

2. Even given that ships have been buffed I don't think it can be said that the buffs increased the effectiveness of running L4's by 20 - 30%.

Yes I'm aware of the reason for the L4 loot price drop, yes I'm aware that highsec is safer than other regions but killing off about 20-30% of our income is too much of a hit.

1a. The blitzers need compensated, not because I believe that blitzing should inherently pay more than non-blitzing but because it is the historical precedent and I don't desire to change that (the adjustment would have to be weighed surely to prevent too wide a gap forming again between the full clear and blitzing groups).

1b. The unique LP items are to reduce competition with players getting LP other ways which could water down the income of both groups (this might not need to be done).

3. I don't understand what you mean when you say: "they need to adapt". Adapt how and to what?

Going to want health care for your ship crews next.

What if the reduction in income was actually a target CCP wanted to achieve? Could it mean they don't need to give anything abck because it was intended to reduce the income generated from mission by nerfing the value of loot?

No, and why is it your income? For years missions have been taking value from other activities, and continue to do so.

If missions are not paying you enough, go do something else.

Going to want health care for your ship crews next.

They're compensated by inflation.

You mean like SoE ships?

They need to adapt to the economical environment by either learning to blitz or to earn their ISK through other means.

1. because i worked for that income, just like everyone else works for theirs doing whatever they do in EVE.

2. In the past this argument could be said to be true, as it stands i see no justification behind the statement.

3. I prefer to do the activities im involved with now, I just want paid as i have been the last 1.5 years i have played.

4. My crew has full health care, 5 weeks of vacation, 1 week of sick leave and dental. I appreciate your concern for my crew, quite touching.

They're compensated by inflation.

You mean like SoE ships?


They need to adapt to the economical environment by either learning to blitz or to earn their ISK through other means.

4-5 years ago a plex cost 350 mil and a drake cost around 20mil.. this is no longer the case.. its called inflation.. next time you want an increase at work and you boss suggests you change jobs to something more risky because you want a higher salary because the price of bread has doubled, will you go ? or will you follow the oh noooo inflation is high we desrve more to live route ??
Same thing here.. saying move to null to solve inflation is very short sighted..

3. While i respect your opinion, I also disagree that the solution is for me to start doing what i dont want to do to solve the problem. If we dropped everyone's ISK/hr and told them to go do something else in EVE if they didn't like it I have a feeling that wouldn't go over very well.

4-5 years ago a plex cost 350 mil and a drake cost around 20mil.. this is no longer the case.. its called inflation.. next time you want an increase at work and you boss suggests you change jobs to something more risky because you want a higher salary because the price of bread has doubled, will you go ? or will you follow the oh noooo inflation is high we deserve more to live route ??
Same thing here.. saying move to null to solve inflation is very short sighted..

in general any comment about a buff to PVE content in the game invokes a lot of people climbing up the walls because they want to see high sec as crap as possible with all the main focus being given towards null.

4-5 years ago a plex cost 350 mil and a drake cost around 20mil.. this is no longer the case.. its called inflation.. next time you want an increase at work and you boss suggests you change jobs to something more risky because you want a higher salary because the price of bread has doubled, will you go ? or will you follow the oh noooo inflation is high we desrve more to live route ??
Same thing here.. saying move to null to solve inflation is very short sighted..

Or we want to see the most dangerous space giving the best rewards.

They need to adapt to the economical environment by either learning to blitz or to earn their ISK through other means.

Or we want to see the most dangerous space giving the best rewards.

Your first option is already prevented by default, since the people who aren't blitzing missions is the only reason blitzing is valuable at all. Mission rewards are based on average mission completion time and if everyone blitzed with perfect efficiency then the LP rewards would nosedive.

What have wormholes got to do with this thread?

Or did you perhaps mean to suggest that nullsec is infact the most dangerous space? Because if thats what you were suggesting, you need to get out more.

Yes I'm aware of the reason for the L4 loot price drop, yes I'm aware that highsec is safer than other regions but killing off about 20-30% of our income is too much of a hit.

The value of looted items from L4's has dropped with some items losing >50% of their value and some essentially reaching the point of being of no real ISK value at all.

I would like to see a scaling implementation of mission payouts both in terms of LP and straight ISK rewards for mission completions. I don't know if this is needed for all mission types but certainly the highsec L4 payouts need a scalable change.

Yes I'm aware of the reason for the L4 loot price drop, yes I'm aware that highsec is safer than other regions but killing off about 20-30% of our income is too much of a hit.

Your maths is wrong.

In Null you rat anoms and get roughly 45% of the income as loot.

Highsec missions have much lower loot income percentages, primarily because of LP.

And as a reformed Highsec Carebear I say this: "You can't spell Risk without ISK".

I think the real question is what the hell do you spend all your money on? My golem runs for free these days. It doesn't cost a dime.

As is yours, null anom running loot is not worth 45% of your income.. its way less. You need to use Jita prices cause thats where you going to have to sell it.

So salvage is a lvl 4 issue only? LOL

My salvaging in 0.0 just got shafted too, every ones salvage got shafted by the change.

Lvl 4's are fine at the moment, if not deserving a nerf in high sec.

Lvl 1's are bad bad bad at the moment and need buffing up to help new bros. If people think lvl 1s are good go grind lvl 1's for a week and see how much isk you make. Pulling in 200k isk for 10-15 mins game time for newbros is bad, CCP need to sort this out badly because it's forcing people into isk/hr efficiency straight away to look at getting a cruiser hull, which means people mining when they don't want to, which causes them to quit cos it's so f**kin boring.

Missions in low and 0.0 need their LP rewards buffing, as it is it's not worth doing lvl 4's in low sec if there is an agent in high sec.

And LP stores need a good look at, too many Dud corps to mission for and too many that have everything good.

3. Agree that lower missions need buffing, it would have been nice to frig longer.

You can stay in a frig as long as you like, the only reason to rush out of one is to get into level 4s faster so you can plex your account. So this thread is essentially just a plex whine thread.

PLEX

nerf l4s even more, save eve