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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
175
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Posted - 2014.07.28 21:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
The value of looted items from L4's has dropped with some items losing >50% of their value and some essentially reaching the point of being of no real ISK value at all.
I would like to see a scaling implementation of mission payouts both in terms of LP and straight ISK rewards for mission completions. I don't know if this is needed for all mission types but certainly the highsec L4 payouts need a scalable change.
Yes I'm aware of the reason for the L4 loot price drop, yes I'm aware that highsec is safer than other regions but killing off about 20-30% of our income is too much of a hit. Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3396
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Posted - 2014.07.28 21:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Now factor in all the buffs to ships used for running missions and how they have effected ISK generation from high-sec missions. Oh god. |
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
135
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Posted - 2014.07.28 21:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:The value of looted items from L4's has dropped with some items losing >50% of their value and some essentially reaching the point of being of no real ISK value at all.
I would like to see a scaling implementation of mission payouts both in terms of LP and straight ISK rewards for mission completions. I don't know if this is needed for all mission types but certainly the highsec L4 payouts need a scalable change.
Yes I'm aware of the reason for the L4 loot price drop, yes I'm aware that highsec is safer than other regions but killing off about 20-30% of our income is too much of a hit.
It's a gross exaggeration to say that L4 income has been generally reduced by 30% or even 20%. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
18
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Posted - 2014.07.28 21:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Agreed...
Normally a Large smart bomb found from lvl 4 missions was worth over 700.000 isk, now it's somewhere at 134.000 isk. (I've checked both in Amarr and Jita)
Something needs to be done inorder to bring up the reward for doing level 4 missions, but straight forward buffing the isk reward from the mission itself is not the way to go. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2844
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Posted - 2014.07.28 22:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
But I thought the way you guys made the most money from them was to completely ignore all the drops, blitz the missions as quickly as possible and just roll on to the next one? |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2346
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Posted - 2014.07.28 22:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Once upon a time when I still used PLEX for my account, I could grind that PLEX in about two weeks of not-entirely-hardcore L4 running. Maybe four or six missions a day, fully salvaged and loot sold. I don't know how people manage to buy PLEX these days - and it's not just because of PLEX prices going up. The last L4 I ran made me tangibly less than they did in those other days.
As a result, I just sell PLEX when I need money. ISK grinding is for other people. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
565
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Posted - 2014.07.28 22:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lol no. L4 missions still pay too well for how silly easy they are. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
232
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Posted - 2014.07.28 22:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd be fine with having the elite rats drop t2 salvage. In addition to allowing for more returns, it would help drive down pricing for t2 salvage, which is WAY overpriced and makes Relic hunting one of the highest risk/income disparities in the game. |
GreenSeed
1089
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Posted - 2014.07.28 22:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
they need more LP, and more LP items. adding more bounties or ISK rewards is just adding up to the problem. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
461
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Posted - 2014.07.28 23:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:But I thought the way you guys made the most money from them was to completely ignore all the drops, blitz the missions as quickly as possible and just roll on to the next one?
That's the workaround you get to at some point. It works well enough. I pick and choose missions I hit for clean up these days. And that's only if inclined to make a stockpile of crap for what I hope is a return to 0.0 and I'd like to have self made rigs and some named gear mods I liked for cheaper start up.
I just think its funny ccp gave the noctis after (edit: or then....I can't remember the order atm...) they adjusted (read nerfed) loot and salvege drop tables. IMO...for what drops these days good ole salvage dessie would have been fine lol. On the fence at this point at selling mine tbh and going retro with old faithful salvage catalyst. |
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Fourteen Maken
VipeRs Pit
136
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Posted - 2014.07.29 00:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
I started running them a few days ago, was expecting a fountain of ISK... no fountain of ISK
I think it's about the amount of competition rather than anything else, there are just too many people doing them and the rewards are competed away, if you put T2 stuff in there then those modules would become worth a lot less and nothing is fixed.
I think whats needed is a good alternative to get people to move into different activities: not a buff. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2844
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Posted - 2014.07.29 01:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:
I think whats needed is a good alternative to get people to move into different activities: not a buff.
Feature exists: leave highsec.
Or do incursions I suppose. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8241
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Posted - 2014.07.29 01:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
L4 missions already pay too much.
And if you're looting, you're probably doing it wrong. I for one am very glad that large smartbombs and other such things are no longer mineral pinatas. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
461
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Posted - 2014.07.29 03:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:I think whats needed is a good alternative to get people to move into different activities: not a buff.
ccp did that. Just some not liking it. Me, meh cba to do the side stuff so missions suit me fine.
Low activity needed depending on how you do it so isk passable for work, for lack of better term, involved. Nothing really to fix (except bring back drone poop since they trashed drone missions otherwise imo...but that is for other threads lol).
Blitz works worst case if you think the saved 5-10 minutes here and there adds up to bounty + agent pay for that 1 more mission for the day/night. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
53
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Posted - 2014.07.29 07:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:they need more LP, and more LP items. adding more bounties or ISK rewards is just adding up to the problem. or tags |
Valkin Mordirc
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2014.07.29 08:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
I felt like dropping my two cents on missioning, I don't find it fun, I honestly don't think it need's a isk buff, or a isk nerf. But if I can solo lvl 4's in an omitanked Tengu perma active tanking lazily locking and pressing F1, I can personally say, missions need a buff in the 'fun' factor. Nothing about it is challenging, skillful, or runs any sorta risk.
I'd rather see missions become more interactive, or introduce some sort of mechanic that would make it more engaging. Nothing about them are engaging or active. Thus I can't stand to do them. The only rewards I want from missions as they stand right now are the locater agents, (which I can just bypass by going to Locates R Us) Or jump clones, (Which I can also bypass) So asides from cheapish LP faction mods (Which can be bought in market abit a higher price) and the ablitity to have POS in Highsec, What usefulness do they provide?
I say if you want to buff the payout from missioning, give them a reward that can't be given by a third party means IE: Locators, Faction Mods, Standings for Jumps clones/POS'.
Psychotic Monk for CSM9 |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
250
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Posted - 2014.07.29 08:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
It is the same discussions as Incursions being ti rewarding, it all depends the players investment.
Do you run incursions 8 hours a day - perceived payout to high. Do you run incursions 1-2 hours a day - perceived payout good Do you run incursions 2-4 hours a week - perceived payout ok Do you run incursions 4-8 hours a month - perceived payout meh!
Do you run L4s often ? How many per day ? Do you farm certain missions before and after DT ? Do you 'clear all?' Are you running for LP or Bounties ? DO you run for efficiency or fun ? Do you run missions effectively in either case ?
All those variables and personal perception play a role if L4s do pay out as much as they should. Now give me data on that and we can start to argue... these argument for 'personal feelings' is rubbish.
And besides that, each mission type has its advantages - they do not all work the same way, it totally depends on what you want them to pay out or in which category the most. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3401
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Posted - 2014.07.29 09:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: I felt like dropping my two cents on missioning, I don't find it fun, I honestly don't think it need's a isk buff, or a isk nerf. But if I can solo lvl 4's in an omitanked Tengu perma active tanking lazily locking and pressing F1, I can personally say, missions need a buff in the 'fun' factor. Nothing about it is challenging, skillful, or runs any sorta risk.
I've done some high-sec exploration and found it quite profitable. It's also quite competitive. Other players might try to force you out of a site or try to steal your loot and that is what makes it interesting for me. It's still a form of PvP and still friendly for those who are afraid to lose ships. This is the dynamic all high-sec 'PvE' activities should follow, imo. HS mission runners rarely encounter any player interaction, and when they do, it's because they're getting blown up. I've also found HS anoms to be pretty competitive too, though not very profitable, they are far more enjoyable than missions. Missions should go, competitive 'PvE' gameplay should be promoted. Oh god. |
Tabyll Altol
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
6
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Posted - 2014.07.29 09:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Im okay with the suggestion but only if lv4-¦s move to lowsec.
Think about why the price have reduces so much:
1. Too much loot for too few buyers 2. No need of the things
No Buffs for incomes in Highsec.
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1442
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Posted - 2014.07.29 09:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:The value of looted items from L4's has dropped with some items losing >50% of their value and some essentially reaching the point of being of no real ISK value at all.
I would like to see a scaling implementation of mission payouts both in terms of LP and straight ISK rewards for mission completions. I don't know if this is needed for all mission types but certainly the highsec L4 payouts need a scalable change.
Yes I'm aware of the reason for the L4 loot price drop, yes I'm aware that highsec is safer than other regions but killing off about 20-30% of our income is too much of a hit.
L4 income is reasonable.
One could argue for HARDER missions that pay more. But for their current easy of completion they pay well enough still.
Maybe the current L5 should be renamed L6 and new L5 created. Ones that need 2-3 people to complete (but do not need capital ships). "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Infrequent
Aliastra Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2014.07.29 10:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
No they don't, they need to be made more challenging, have more interaction, they should really hint towards higher level forms of pve and maybe even pvp for those who are confident enough. We need highsec missions to be far less saturated than they are now, people should feel the need to move onto bigger and better things (L5s, epic arcs, incursions, WH daytripping, the list goes on), not just sit and grind L4s 24/7. |
Maeltstome
Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi
540
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Posted - 2014.07.29 10:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
The lack of conflict in isk generation makes it far to easy. The Plex price increase simply represents an increase in the ease of making isk.
Anomalies, Missions, incursions... these all have practically zero overlap in terms of multiple pilots making money.
Rewind a few years to where 0.0 systems had 1-10 asteroid belts, with a 1-2 BS rats every 2/3 belts. Now you have 6 BS rats spawning on-top of you every few minutes in anomalies.
Sorry OP - i think ALL isk generation should be nerfed, not increased. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1447
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Posted - 2014.07.29 11:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:The lack of conflict in isk generation makes it far to easy. The Plex price increase simply represents an increase in the ease of making isk.
Anomalies, Missions, incursions... these all have practically zero overlap in terms of multiple pilots making money.
Rewind a few years to where 0.0 systems had 1-10 asteroid belts, with a 1-2 BS rats every 2/3 belts. Now you have 6 BS rats spawning on-top of you every few minutes in anomalies.
Sorry OP - i think ALL isk generation should be nerfed, not increased. The majority of the isk entering the game is from Null Sec bounties. Second largest source seems to be WH NPC buy orders. Incursions & Missions are nowhere near those two in how much isk enters the game.
When you add LP, missions become somewhat competitive with WH's if you assume all LP is worth the same as SOE LP... Which obviously it isn't.
However level 4's make a fine amount of Isk.
What needs a huge buff is level 1 & 2 missions and a slight buff to level 3's in terms of isk (So that blitz runners on lvl 3's don't see very much increase) |
Ray Kyonhe
Ray's Relentless Research
108
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
I agree with those saying L4 pay well enough. And I also was too lazy before to loot all these wrecks, blitzing approach is less tedious for me. And before you ask for isk/hour buff some proofs are needed which will show that those droped items constitute for significant part in cumulative reward per mission. Like their approximate drop rate and such, to make some estimation on how much reward be put down. If 5 of them are dropped per mission, and each lost in value 500000 isks.. Well, not even an issue. Some of them, like meta 3-4 turrets, still valuable too. Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link |
S'Way
Bitter Vets
722
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
As a blitzer the changes haven't affected me - yet I have to agree they should buff L4's a little in some way.
Why ? well a lot of players in the game use mission running to fund their pvp ships. When they make less or have to grind longer to do so they become more risk averse due to valuing those ships higher.
The argument of "there's too much isk generation in the game already" may be true, but that's due to other areas being far too profitable - (yes I mean things like high sec incursions). To those saying just run incursions then - a lot of fleets only want high skilled characters with decent ships, the people who the indirect L4 nerfs have hit most (players who are just into their first battleship and trying to get some isk generated for other things) won't easily be able to do those given the limited number of fleets and requirements they have. |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
252
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Posted - 2014.07.29 14:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Reading a few replies and seeing nobody willing to really acknowledge the questions I asked; or rather proposed to be asked, I am inlcined to think a bit in the direction of 'what if ...'.
If the income from Missions should be increased, then the following way (no increase value given, just internal distribution):
Security missions: Only via loot (20%) and salvage (80%), which will balance out invested time and effort and/or allows to offer or sell bookmarks to salvagers, who again invest more time and effort. No increase in LP, which would support blitz, or bounties which would also support blitz and pure combate effective capsuleers.
Mining Missions: ISK reward (80%), LP (20%). The ISk reward is a bit low, LPs feel right, otherwise mining missions have other substatual benefits. Rats and thereby bounties do not need to eb increased. Adding generic rare roids could substitute increased rewards by offering for extra effort extra income from time invested to mine the rare ores.
Distribution missions: ISK (50%) LP (50%). Both have equal value. The other way to increase income would be to chain missions. One mission will lead to another agent which can be used of the same quality and so forth until after 4-6 agents the route will return to the first agent. (but this is more related to the mission revamp then income).
And yes, L2 (70%) and L3 (30%) need a slight increase in payout, slight.
But if you ask me, this should all be discussed and adjusted with a complete misison overhaul. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Thorr VonAsgard
Never Surrender.
42
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Posted - 2014.07.29 15:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
go null or wh if you want money.
no risk, no reward. |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
252
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Posted - 2014.07.29 15:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Thorr VonAsgard wrote:go null or wh if you want money.
no risk, no reward. Same old and dumb misconception. Risk & Reward do not always include exposure to PvP. Are you sure your issues aren't elsewhere ?! |
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
329
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Posted - 2014.07.29 15:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'm holding out for the meta 1-4 rebalance. Once all those items go from being 'incrementally better, just buy meta 4' to 'everything has a purpose', looting missions will be profitable once more. Assuming CCP doesn't nerf the loot tables when it happens.
Which, upon reflection, they probably will. |
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
77
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Posted - 2014.07.29 15:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Maybe level 4s in lowsec needs a buff? Not sure if level 4s in general need it. Is that my two cents or yours? |
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