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Holy hell, the Tornado is a gankers dream.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2011.11.23 03:14:00 - [121] - Quote Andski wrote: just got back from sams club, bought some pumpkin pie, potatoes (for making ~mashed~ potatoes), some loose leaf earl grey, a nice turkey, and a bunch of other stuff thanksgivin is going to be awesome Damn i am good at sniping /* that is actually edit. Isnt it too early for such shopping ?
Richard Hammond II Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 88	Posted - 2011.11.23 05:29:00 - [122] - Quote Andski wrote: It has the same falloff bonus as a Machariel. Fit 1400s, sensor boosters, gyros and TEs and hit stuff with falloff at 200km with short-range ammo, hell yeah so.... is it gonna cost a billion isk like the machariel? Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Jaroslav Unwanted Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2011.11.23 05:35:00 - [123] - Quote Richard Hammond II wrote: Andski wrote: It has the same falloff bonus as a Machariel. Fit 1400s, sensor boosters, gyros and TEs and hit stuff with falloff at 200km with short-range ammo, hell yeah so.... is it gonna cost a billion isk like the machariel? No since it can get destroyed by destroyer. But that point is pretty moot in high sec.
Richard Hammond II Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 88	Posted - 2011.11.23 05:45:00 - [124] - Quote Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: Richard Hammond II wrote: Andski wrote: It has the same falloff bonus as a Machariel. Fit 1400s, sensor boosters, gyros and TEs and hit stuff with falloff at 200km with short-range ammo, hell yeah so.... is it gonna cost a billion isk like the machariel? No since it can get destroyed by destroyer. But that point is pretty moot in high sec. I think the tank is moot on this thing... Its not designed to TAKE hits - that would mean it was actually designed to do something OTHER than gank Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 980	Posted - 2011.11.23 10:44:00 - [125] - Quote Richard Hammond II wrote: Andski wrote: It has the same falloff bonus as a Machariel. Fit 1400s, sensor boosters, gyros and TEs and hit stuff with falloff at 200km with short-range ammo, hell yeah so.... is it gonna cost a billion isk like the machariel? don't get me wrong, the mach will still be the king of alpha the tornado will be a great ship for perfecting your drive-by technique and applying that technique with the mach, owning scrubs all day
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 1225	Posted - 2011.11.23 11:35:00 - [126] - Quote Richard Hammond II wrote: Andski wrote: It has the same falloff bonus as a Machariel. Fit 1400s, sensor boosters, gyros and TEs and hit stuff with falloff at 200km with short-range ammo, hell yeah so.... is it gonna cost a billion isk like the machariel? The Machariel also has 6 digit EHP, a heavy Neut and a massive drone bay. Oh and they're rather less than a billion ISK these days. You could probably undock a T2 fit mach from Jita 4-4 and get change from 700M these days. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Eyup Mi'duck Republic University Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2011.11.23 11:46:00 - [127] - Quote Outrageous blasphemy! To the OP: Hell is not holy, and never ever will be. I suggest you change the title of your thread before you get struck down by a lightening bolt. Or a Tornado. I am me.-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á I am not you.-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áI am happy with this situation.
Buck Futz Suddenly Violence Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 10	Posted - 2012.01.24 13:09:00 - [128] - Quote Well, after having some time to extensively play around with the Tornado.... It is a ganking MONSTER. Boomerang from hell. http://y0ink.us/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=1330198615&view=kills Its no surprise that the Tornado far outstrips every other BC/BS in this regard. (Even the Talos!) Did you know that you can gank Mackinaws with T2 Tornados......PROFITABLY? Taken down almost 150 Exhumers in the last few weeks. SB Typhoons accounted for about 35. Dessies, perhaps 10 or so. (mostly solo ganking weak Macks with T2 Blaster Catalysts) The rest? Fell to T2 Tornados. How do you do this without wrecking your wallet? Well.... Self-built T2 Tornado hull+fit costs around 80M, and drops about 20M after death. Mackinaws and Hulks generally drop around 5-10M, each in loot. Kill 2-4 Mackinaws/Hulks per Tornado attack - and recover the drops, and you are breaking even. Then, factor in T2 Salvage (20-25M T2 Intact Plates!!! + 4M Logic Circuits) and you are actually coming out well ahead. If you can keep your kill ratio at around 3 Exhumers/Tornado, you do quite well, generally coming out ahead 25-50M or so, per attack run. (Oh, and this was mostly in 0.7 systems....) Talos can't really do this, mainly due to short range and lack of the instapop - its likely better for tearing down Orcas with its massive DPS. Granted, groups of destroyers can gank even more efficiently, (looking at you Smodab!) but I gank solo 95% of the time - and operate in Gallente space where the bruised and beaten Ice miners have learned the hard way NOT to tank exclusively with Cap Recharger IIs. Oh yes, after this, layer on 'protection fees' from threatening miners. 3 Billion so far - all profit. Yes, they will pay to be left alone when you use tracking agents/addressbook to hunt them and gank/pod them repeatedly. Interestingly, I believe that it should be possible to get as many as 6 Mackinaw kills with a single Tornado - just a matter of finding plenty of targets within 30km radius. Lag from geographical distance and lousy internet makes it difficult - but still experimenting with my fit and technique - or killing in 'easier' 0.5 systems. What I want? CCP to remove the stupid 'You are committing a crime' pop-up when you ALREADY are GCC'd. The initial warning is fine...but getting it over and over??? With the back and forth communication required across the globe, it costs you precious seconds. If you are trying to light up several Miners and are ALREADY doomed to Concord death - it makes no sense and gets in the way, having to keep smacking Enter, over and over.
Terrolph Trick University of Caille Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.01.24 13:12:00 - [129] - Quote Nice bump mate!
IGNATIUS HOOD Zephyr Corp 277	Posted - 2012.01.24 13:16:00 - [130] - Quote You had me at.... Herr Wilkus wrote: But Orcas and Tornados go together like my belt buckle and your forehead. Just about spit coffee on my laptop... 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim' Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 141	Posted - 2012.01.24 13:44:00 - [131] - Quote Singlehandedly responsible for me training up Large Arty Spec V. Sometimes, you just need to be 2% longer.
Holy One SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353 161	Posted - 2012.01.24 14:10:00 - [132] - Quote Tornado is rubbish. You're all literally ********.
John Maynard Keynes Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.01.24 14:11:00 - [133] - Quote Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Herr Wilkus wrote: Finally got a chance to EFT this new toy. Hell yes, who needs insurance when you've got Tornado-power? 13.1K Alpha with RF PP (at 30km). T2 Hull and Fitting Cost, likely around 70-80M, with half of the mods recoverable after the gank. 1x Tornado can kill two Hulks or Mackinaws with a single hull in 0.5-0.7 space. (**just bait Concord correctly so they respond in MORE than 13 seconds). Tear return? 50M spent to blast 440M worth of Hulks into dust. 2x Tornados kill most active Tengus for 100M. And you know how blingy they can be. Costing the victim SP is a bonus. 5x Tornados kill just about any active tanked Marauder for 250M. Deadspace XL Shield Boosters anyone? 15x Tornados? Now we are talking dead freighters, for a mere 750M investment up front. Thats some serious TEAR potential. I plan to have several Tornado BPOs in heavy rotation. I will keep my local trade hub swimming in these things, simply as a public service. Soon, we enter a new age of dead Tengus and broken Hulks. If these numbers are accurate, then CCP will be nerfing the boat. I imagine there are large corps/alliances (read as Goons), that would use these boats as game-changing economic modifiers. When I say game changing, I mean creating a new economic paradigm all-together. In a matter of weeks, they could alter the vast majority of commerce in the game, simply by establishing suicide gank squads around Jita's entrance/exit gates, and destroying every Orca/freighter that moves through. Imagine a situation where only Goon-friendly freighters come and go from Jita. CCP will not allow that situation to occur, since it will devastate the game, and who knows how many subscriptions they would lose. The Blue Ice embargo may have been a dry run for something far more destructive. Well the goons tried to fuckup RaidenDOT. They gatheren an coalition around them and destroyed a couple of goon fleets. The goons started an attack against high sec ice miners. They opened a threadnaught and started to whine. hmmm...
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 501	Posted - 2012.01.24 14:24:00 - [134] - Quote Jaroslav Unwanted wrote: As i said many times Crucible : the new gank heaven. simple fix let concord insta pop any pod considered as an enemy. "outlaw" xD that would be fun. There is nothing wrong with ganking, but on the other hand all criminals shot be shot in the head. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Ehn Roh Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.01.24 20:11:00 - [135] - Quote Ptraci wrote: And once again CCP watches their plans backfire as a ship designed to take on CAPITAL ships will be massively used against: industrials. This is why we can't have nice things. You whine like spoiled children for new toys, and yet insist that the only fruit you want is the one on the low branch. Go forth into null, and use these ships to carve away slices of the large alliances. Ah, no, that would be work. Ganking miners in high sec is more fun. THEN you complain when there's no one left to gank. Exactly why the hell do you play EVE again? How is someone else's industrial not a valid target? If my competitor/oppononet/enemy is in hi-sec, why go shoot some other dude in nullsec? This doesn't even make any sense. You don't get to dictate who my enemies are, and if you are one hiding in hi-sec is not going to save you. Are you actually suggesting that I should be required to engage you in a ship type of your choice?
JC Anderson Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group 177	Posted - 2012.01.24 20:49:00 - [136] - Quote Before these ships ever even made it to tranquility, most people knew that they would be widely used for this purpose... Why would anybody be surprised about this? And as the above poster questioned, how are industrials not valid targets?
Marcus Atredies Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 1	Posted - 2012.01.24 21:07:00 - [137] - Quote So just to get this straight, the hulk you plan on ganking is going to drop more than 80 mil in mods?
MinerChick GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2012.01.24 22:01:00 - [138] - Quote Don't forget Tech 2 salvage and the fact you are going to pop 2-3 of them per ship! Stripminer 2's are not cheap broski.
Thomas Abernathy Viziam Amarr Empire 52	Posted - 2012.01.24 22:22:00 - [139] - Quote Wait, is it time to send out my bait Hulks? I've missed the fail of watching wannabee gankers pop before Concord even shows.... "Fighting CCD since 2139"
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 995	Posted - 2012.01.24 22:35:00 - [140] - Quote Psychophantic wrote: Everyone knows suicide gankers and gate campers are basement dwelling sociopaths seething with sexual frustration and social rejection. +1 'Like' and quoted for truth. Oh yeah, you forgot to include Forum Trolls.
LethalGeek Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2012.01.24 22:35:00 - [141] - Quote Marcus Atredies wrote: So just to get this straight, the hulk you plan on ganking is going to drop more than 80 mil in mods? A lot of people missed another note in the patch that brought the Tier3 ships: Player ships now drop more salvage than they previously did. Exhumers can drop 0-3 Intact Armor plates which can really balance out the cost of the gank.
FeralShadow Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O. 47	Posted - 2012.01.24 22:39:00 - [142] - Quote Thomas Abernathy wrote: Wait, is it time to send out my bait Hulks? I've missed the fail of watching wannabee gankers pop before Concord even shows.... This man gets it.

CCP Phantom C C P C C P Alliance 944	Posted - 2012.01.24 23:09:00 - [143] - Quote Moved from General Discussion. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator

Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 141	Posted - 2012.01.24 23:37:00 - [144] - Quote Didn't realize there was a salvage drop change - but it makes sense. Kill 2 Mackinaws: average 15M in mods + 25M in salvage, plus 20M drops from Tornado. Result: slight 20M loss. Kill 3 Mackinaws: average 22M in mods + 53M in salvage, plus 20M drops from Tornado. Result: slight 15M profit. Kill 4 Mackinaws: average 30M in mods + 80M in salvage., plus 20M drops from Tornado. Result: decent 40M profit. In my experience, killing 2 Exhumers is fairly trivially easy, and 3 is quite easy as well. I'd say the 'average' run kills 2 Macks and a Hulk, or 3 Mackinaws. Killing four, requires enough targets in the right position (and its gets tricky to time the attack run....as there is always a chance that bots will warp out randomly to unload, or actual miners see explosions and panic.) Six for one? It is probably doable, came tantalizingly close once - but it may require a lag-free connection, working in 0.5, or minor changes to the Tornado fit. Always good to set ambitious goals for yourself.... But thats just the 'am I profiting side' of things. Now the TEARS!! Damage to targets on common results from attack runs, weighed against a T2 Tornado. 2x fitted and rigged Mackinaws: 285M in damage, on average. 2x Hulks: 420M in damage 3x Macks: 430M 2x Macks, 1x Hulk: 500M 4x Macks: 570M in damage. Even if you lose EVERYTHING on the Tornado, and fail to get a single scrap of salvage or loot......thats still a pretty healthy cost per tear ratio. Thats a lot of damage, and they don't have to be clustered around an Orca as in a Smart Bomb attack, anything out to around 45km is killable, at or around 30km is preferable. And then you harvest botting pods within 2-3 minutes - I've gotten everything from 0 to nearly 1 Billion ISK.
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings 113	Posted - 2012.01.25 00:11:00 - [145] - Quote How can you get 3+ macks per tornado loss?
Ehn Roh Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2012.01.25 00:15:00 - [146] - Quote Marcus Atredies wrote: So just to get this straight, the hulk you plan on ganking is going to drop more than 80 mil in mods? Who said anything about profiting from drops? I ask again, how is an industrial ship not a valid target if you're looking to hit someone? There are considerations other than ISK. War isn't cheap.
Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 141	Posted - 2012.01.25 02:37:00 - [147] - Quote Ehn Roh wrote: Marcus Atredies wrote: So just to get this straight, the hulk you plan on ganking is going to drop more than 80 mil in mods? Who said anything about profiting from drops? I ask again, how is an industrial ship not a valid target if you're looking to hit someone? There are considerations other than ISK. War isn't cheap. True, but I'm just trying to illustrate that it IS profitable. You can gank miners all day, in T2 Tornados, without insurance - and STILL come out well ahead, just on drops and salvage alone - OUTSIDE of other 'arrangements' made with Miners. This is important for two reasons: You can gank profitably with destroyers, but it requires a group of like minded individuals. Solo ganking with Tornados is easier because it does not require coordination with others. Unfortunately, many have the flawed perception that they will gank Exhumers at a loss - which limits ganking to players with wealth to burn. This is false - you can solo gank miners all day, with T2 Tornados, and earn ISK! Ever since releasing the Tornado, ganking Exhumers has actually become a viable profession - and a fun one too. What would you rather do? Gank miners, get KMs, laffs and tears at a loss? Or gank miners, get KMs, laffas and tears - and earn ISK doing it?
Khrage 81	Posted - 2012.01.25 05:45:00 - [148] - Quote CCP Phantom wrote: Moved from General Discussion. what took you so long?
Tauranon Weeesearch 27	Posted - 2012.01.25 06:46:00 - [149] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: How can you get 3+ macks per tornado loss? Most botted/afk macs don't initiate warp when a tornado arrives in belt. Tornados will probably fire 3 volleys in 0.5 before concord arrives. The volley damage is larger than the typical crap fit mack - which is about 9k ehp. The cyclic dps is normal, but due to the volley its frontloaded, and massive when measured over a small finite number of volleys. If its botted/afk you can use your scout to check the fit to choose the victims without scaring the horses, so you can choose to pretty much ensure you get 3 kills if there are plenty in an ice belt. --- Due to the low EHP, a gank tornado is itself very gankable, but its unlikely you'll achieve that at the moment of belt conflict even if you have a brutix or tornado sitting there yourself. All you can really do is randomly patrol and randomly gank tornados, which might make you some very angry new acquaintances. Such is the security of high security :)
Wideen Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.01.25 08:45:00 - [150] - Quote simple solution to avoid getting suicided in high-sec: don't autopilot whilst transporting valuable goods, it's just lazy and kinda strips you of the right to complain about a game function..

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