If this is an intended feature, it is a huge mistake. Finding content in wormhole space is already very difficult, and sometimes ends up being nothing but ganks. This would increase the ganks-to-realpvp ratio by alot. We don't want to gank rolling capitals, we want to fight.

I understand the want for people to "give it the good old college try" in pvp rather than insta-rolling when they see hostiles, but this would just turn into mass x-logs instead. W-space is already too quiet as it is.

This is not the way.

The entertainment value of the increase in ganks does not outweigh the increase in rolling time, in my opinion. More X-logs = Less people to shoot at = wormhole space is more quiet than it already is.

The cons very very heavily outweigh the pros.

That turns into a 2-3 min warp in a dread plus a 30 second align

so still with the 6 mins added on. That equates to a 600% increase in WH rolling time....serously 600% wtf?

So when you jump a WH you get shot out in random directions and distance based on mass.... Here is wormhole PvP between corps if this is implemented.

20 vs 20 looking for a fight sitting on the other side of each other.

Team A: You jump over first!

Team B: No you jump over first!

Team A: No you jump over first!

Team B: No you!

Team A: No you!!!

Team B: NO YOU!!!!

Team A: YOU!!!!!!

everyone leaves....

I do not disagree that the whole T3 and logi needs work, but CCP is already rebalancing T3 ships, which is long overdue IMO. I think they should finish doing that before also screwing around with other game mechanics.

Being a pilot who has always been part of smaller wormhole pvp fleets. There is always 2 ways to handle a very large wormhole entity that you get connected to.

Option 1: Combat roll the hole
Option 2: Afk in POS for the day

If this change takes effect there will be only 1 of those options left...

you may have read this corbexx but Here it is. it would cause problems in invasions and as my group has about 10-20 active people online and fighting Ixtab on an invasion is a big no no as we only have a few caps seeded and it would be too much of a loss to lose any t3s at that point

A reason this would have been bad is my corp has just invaded a c5 with a c3 static to get more pvp, isk and so on.
When we had the op planned we had our scout report that Ixtab had a hole open and was scouting our target. There was a stratios and a scanning frig in the target hole so we waited until it looked good. we logged on the seeded caps and crashed the hole as our support t3s landed to hopefully keep our caps safe. we ended up trapping the strat and killing it. If we where not able to quickly crash a hole by roundtripping the stage 2 hole with 3 t3s and a carrier then we would have had to wait for either ixtab to warp stuff to the hole and close it (which would also take longer because of either a bunch of battleships or caps having to burn or bounce) or we would have to wait until it crashed in 24 hours. This does not sound like any fun as we where already going to be bashing the inactive peoples pos so we could use it for pvp.

Stuff

Good afternoon everyone.

We'll be posting a dev blog with the whole collection of proposed changes next week and we will be very interested in taking your feedback then. In the meantime I advise you all to not panic. Nobody is out to get you.
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they don't need a gang to stop you combat rolling after change, they need 1 cloaky interceptor with 2 scrams on it and boosts in system, your day is now ruined by a single ship that costs 50m.


how do you not see that?


the time to scan the wh down is the same btw.

how the hell are you in a 50man corp and don't absolutely hate this idea the moment you see it

The slight issue here is that all that takes time. not alot but still time. The otherpeople had that wh. you jump through you still have to have some one burn 150plus km.doing 3km a sec is still a min (yeah ok you can do that before the cap goes through). You then have to align and get webbed which doesnt take long but at this point your agressed so if anything goes wrong logging off is now a real issue. then realign which in a cap takes a little while (not long but this isnt a interceptor we're talking about) all they have to do is land a hic or dic and bubble up before you start your warp back. and yeah you coudl fight your way through but some times you don't have numbers and need to quickly colapse in some ones face.

A cruiser is around 10m mass.
A 100MN MWD (not an AB) fitted on a cruiser and active add 50m mass.

So a back and forth is 120m

2b / 120m = 16.6

What is the issue with my math.

Add to this 4 mins polarisation + travel back to the hole.

For 4 pilot it is a 30/45 mins jobs. And, (if you really are an old wh player) you know you have often to roll 3 or 4 wh to find what you want.

This is insane, the only result is to ruin game experience for wh resident.

Less player in wh = less pvp.

You can **** yourself all day on new strategies to use on hole with this tweak, if nobody want to engage you will get less pvp.

Nobody have already given a good reason to do that tweak.

I think a lot of you folks are focussed on the little picture. How this change will make this or that more or less fun. I'm asking you to look at the bigger picture. What does wh space have that has made it what it is? WH mechanics.

The big 3 are:
1. no local
2. mass limits
3. polarization timers

These 3 things are what made/makes wh space what it is. Decloaking out of jump range takes away 1 of the 3 pillars of wh PVP - the ability to control wh mass. This change will take away that control. Some will argue it just adds risk to wh control.

Let's be honest - you catch a cap out of jump range - it's not gonna make it back. We're not a bunch of marmites camping th 4-4 undock. We know how to web. We know how to bump. Saying it adds risk is just crap. This change makes capital size loot pinatas. Larger corps are all for it. Smaller corps are all against it. It's pretty clear to all parties what this change is about. This is a clear choice by CCP to push the blob into wh space or stand up for the little guys.

This is about ganking guys rolling wh - it's not about pvp. This is cheap stuff pvp. Counter - get a 30 man t3 fleet to protect your rolling assets. If you don't have one, make one.

I wonder what hole you literally live in. I had my ship jump to a WH only to have snipers on the other side. Not everybody goes Geronimo straight up, despite your claim IN CAPS LOCK, which in my book totally proves that it is true.

Rest is just a joke. How do kiting ships spread over huge distance help against blobing armor T3 gank, is beyond me.

Speed thing, agree on that.

I wonder what hole you literally live in. I had my ship jump to a WH only to have snipers on the other side. Not everybody goes Geronimo straight up, despite your claim IN CAPS LOCK, which in my book totally proves that it is true.

Rest is just a joke. How do kiting ships spread over huge distance help against blobing armor T3 gank, is beyond me.

Speed thing, agree on that.

Dust forums are pretty bad as well way more hostile than over here.

This concerns me. It appears that every ship will always appear outside of the wormhole's decloak distance. This will make my form of hunting considerably less viable.

I hunt in wormholes. Usually I am alone, in a stealth bomber. I hunt for any kind of weak ship not in a POS, but among the most usual things I hunt (though not kill) are cloaky scouts. If a cloaky scout can always cloak safely against me, my chance of killing him is zero unless he makes a mistake or I happen to be right on top of him. Currently, there is always the incentive to go for it, on the small but real chance than he is within the wormhole's decloak distance. If he is, then I have the time to lock and can possibly kill. What usually happens is I uncloak, and I go for the lock but fail when he cloaks. This is good because I get a big thrill, and he gets a thrill. We both end up with racing hearts and feeling alive. People who feel alive keep playing.

Another thing I dislike about this, is its effect on me, the hunter. It makes me safer, since currently I too can be killed if I happen to appear too close to a wormhole and someone is there hunting me. Every jump I make into a new system is a bit dangerous. Don't take that way.

Corp mate tested this earlier, had capsules landing at ~5K, cruisers at ~10-15K, battleships at ~20, carriers ~30, dreads ~40. If someone could confirm that he didn't manage to confuse cruisers, command ships and battleships that would be great.