please explain whats good about it and the more interesting choices. please also apply them to. c1 wh's, c2 to c4 wh's and then c5 to c6 wh's also please take in to account farmers and pvpers. Small groups that live in the lower class wh's and bigger groups in the higher class wh's.

I'll break it down so even a bullhead can understand.

Wormholes are not gates. W-space is not Nullsec nor do we want it to be more like Nullsec. The mechanics surrounding kspace gate fights are a big draw/reason a lot of us live in w-space, so we don't have to deal with that crap.


Tldr.

Different from kspace is good, GTFO with your it works for us in null crap. It's not wanted and not constructive.

Have been reading for 15 pages now...I still see no valid or concise reason this is in any way a good idea. Provide numbers, like I have or make a valid point please. Some one explain why this isn't complete ****.

They collapse the hole and trap the dread, then they're trapped their own caps on the other side, otherwise it's likely you'll simply collapse the hole upon jumping your caps in.

The language is perfectly apt to the situation. Yes the logic of my point is based in the status quo because it works perfectly and it's near unanimous from the dwellers in bobs space that of all the things whs could use this isn't one. I care very strongly about w-space I call it home and will passionately expose my views and/opinions as such.


The status quo of ice cream is that it is cold, the status quo of a toilet is that you flush it and it flushes the excrement away. Neither or these needs changing/fixing.


Simply becaus something is a status quo doesn't make that a bad thing.

I think that's the problem. The more I think about this change the less I think I care. Especially if it is also applied to cyno mechanics.

#rekt

You got me.

Couldn't you just use Nidhoggurs with inertia stabs and then have them warp to a cloaky scout and then warp back to the wormhole and jump?

You should be able to get an align time of about 10 seconds.

The problem is it won't.

Because 1) Carebears will do what they do now if a big group is connected, scout it then go **** collapsing and just log for the day.
2) Big groups could easily close with battle ships if they wanted meaning it won't affect us much but will screw the smaller guys.

This idea is almost as great as the sov in wormholes idea.

It's a good thing my subs are running out.

Yeah as i said, i agree that the ships should spawn outside of jump range but 40km, even 15km for a capital ship that doesn't have a prop mod is ridiculous.

As you work for a compromise on this I will point out the smaller corp perspective. There are 2 ranges you can pop out of a wh.

1. Inside jump range - this is were you can use mechanics, skill and what not to have a chance to fight above your weight class. The option to close wh allows a lot of interesting game play that is not based on bigger numbers winning.

2. Outside of jump range - this is where jumping through a wh for pvp becomes a more is better and will win 99 times out of 100.



So as you compromise don't try to fool yourself that 20 km is ok. It's in jump range where you can use wh mechanics or not in jump range where numbers win.

This is a small corp killer. It's not a wh killer, but little guys will get snuffed out like a discarded smoke on a sidewalk. Corp death by new jump range feature slaughter or pos spinning to avoid slaughter. You're listening to the wrong folks on this one. Seriously, if you take away the ability to use wh jump mechanics (mass and polarization) what do we have left??

So, briefly, I appreciate the innovative thinking but this particular change could be very, very bad for corps like ours in particular. I'll be honest, we're on the small end for C5/C6 PvP corps, and when we go up against one of the bigger, well-organized groups (Lazerhawks, SSC, KILL, Hard Knocks), we pretty much rely on our ability to cut off the chain of reinforcements if we want to stand a chance. The longer a fight goes on, the more likely it is that we'll be massively outnumbered. This just erases that entire tool, or at least makes it a guaranteed capital loss. Corbexx said very early in the thread that it favors big groups over small and I agree, and I think that we have too many big groups (or groups that are too big) right now as it is. This essentially encourages you to have the biggest blob possible, so that you can all jump through in 50 T3s and end up close enough to the wormhole to fight.

I'm glad CCP is devoting some time and thought to wormhole mechanics but this particular change is going to make it very hard for groups like us to engage a larger corp without getting stomped every single time. Personally I like engaging bigger foes, but not when there's zero chance of taking control of the fight.

I think this change will contribute to falling number because if there is nothing to do in your chain and you don't have the numbers to roll, you can't play the wormhole game. Yes, perhaps people will feel safer running sites because, theoretically, there will be less hunter rolling but if they have a hostile wormhole in system that they don't want to risk rolling, they may choose to log off instead. If this happens enough, they may leave wormhole space all together.

I log off if there is no PVP. That's just me though.

Stop posting.

Thanks, you did everyone a favor.

Wonder how long before the cartels start renting out wormhole systems.

Why should they? What is your reasoning?