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korrey
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:08:00 -
[1]
Holy crap CCP where have you been? I for the first time, looked up the omen in Quickfit. I put a nice little setu with Focused medium Pulse laser II's on there and Conflagration.
Dear word! I got freakin 169dps on almost all the ships I went against...does anyone realize how much this sucks? Oh and that was with 2 Sanshas Heatsinks.
169......
dps.......
omen........
sucks.......
Fix it.
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Nebuli
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:10:00 -
[2]
Omg all that defines a good ship from a bad ship is its DPS 
CEO - Art of War |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:10:00 -
[3]
So does the maller, so it balances out 
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:10:00 -
[4]
quickfit's dps cals are what most people call "broken".
Cruiser DPS Calcs
It's from an old thread - the Omen 20m3 shows the DPS of it with an extra light drone.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust -
Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine?
LOL -Suvetar |
Lester Mako
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:11:00 -
[5]
You expect a doomsday weapon from a T1, Tier 1 cruiser? Rig up a Exequror and then cry to me.
Miner, Seller of Minerals, Father |
korrey
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:14:00 -
[6]
Maybe you failed to see the fact that its a gunship...the exequrors bio doesnt mention anything about being in the heat of battle guns blazing.
Oh and I didnt even elaborate my point.
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II's do 179dps to a normal Thorax...
Heavy Pulse Laser II's do 837.9? Sounds messed up.
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CrayC
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:16:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: korrey
Omen dps.....nothing more to say....
And yet you made a post... What's wrong with this picture?
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:16:00 -
[8]
You're including resistances, aren't you?
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Nebuli
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sarmaul
quickfit's dps cals are what most people call "broken".
Cruiser DPS Calcs
It's from an old thread - the Omen 20m3 shows the DPS of it with an extra light drone.
Just quoting this because its a nice graph and the OP obviously hasnt looked at it, or didnt understand it, from around 10k up to around 20k it has the highest dps of all the cruisers, wheres the problem again?
CEO - Art of War |
korrey
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:22:00 -
[10]
...it shows the second LOWEST dps from 10km to 20km...look again.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: korrey
...it shows the second LOWEST dps from 10km to 20km...look again.
The line you should be looking at is the bright red one. It is not the second lowest.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust -
Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine?
LOL -Suvetar |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: korrey
...it shows the second LOWEST dps from 10km to 20km...look again.
There are 2 omen lines 
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:28:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Aramendel on 10/07/2006 21:28:32
Originally by: korrey
...it shows the second LOWEST dps from 10km to 20km...look again.
Er... nooo?
Thats with t2 heavy pulse and a heavy launcher on top and not focussed pulse, though, can the omen even fit that?
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 10/07/2006 21:28:32
Originally by: korrey
...it shows the second LOWEST dps from 10km to 20km...look again.
Er... nooo?
Thats with t2 heavy pulse and a heavy launcher on top and not focussed pulse, though, can the omen even fit that?
About as well as the Thorax can fit neutrons + anything useful. It's showing maximum DPS - every ship besides the cara obviously has to make damage sacrifices for tank + speed.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust -
Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine?
LOL -Suvetar |
Cohkka
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:31:00 -
[15]
Ohh, the quickfit experts are returning. God... I wished this prog was never developed, altho I use it myself...
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Stamm
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Stamm on 10/07/2006 21:38:42
I'm actually very impressed with the Omens DPS. I just had a look at Quickfit. It gets half the bonus a Zealot gets, can fit the same guns a Zealot can, plus in addition can fit a launcher (no grid for it :P) and can put 3 light drones in.
Fair enough you do need T2 drones and T2 launchers to really come up with the goods on the DPS, and even then it can't match the Zealot... plus you'll get between zero and no tank on it.
But still, if you need to do damage and don't need a tank, it's not to be sniffed at.
Edit : I looked at the fittings on Quickfit, not the DPS :P
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sarmaul
About as well as the Thorax can fit neutrons + anything useful. It's showing maximum DPS - every ship besides the cara obviously has to make damage sacrifices for tank + speed.
Mhh.. 5 t2 heavy neutrons: 954/1025 PG for thorax. 4 t2 heavy pulse + 1 t2 heavy missle launcher: 926/912 PG for Omen.
Seems we have different definitions for "about as well" 
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Angus McLein
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: korrey
...it shows the second LOWEST dps from 10km to 20km...look again.
Wow...theres these round see through things we call glasses. Use them.
Oh and for fun to see how broken the Quickfit scale was I put 8x Heavy Pulse Laser II's on an Apocolypse and a full rack of 7x HeatSink II's and I got 2,789.0 dps. Not bad eh? Lol.
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fkingfurious
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:44:00 -
[19]
Mhh.. 5 t2 heavy neutrons: 954/1025 PG for thorax. 4 t2 heavy pulse + 1 t2 heavy missle launcher: 926/912 PG for Omen.
Omen, Tier 2.
Thorax, tier 3.
Do u still want to continue that argument?
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:52:00 -
[20]
Train reading comprehension 1, it's a useful skill.
This was a reply on Sarmauls (the omen can fit that setup) About as well as the Thorax can fit neutrons... The "tier" of the cruiser is utterly meaningless here.
"But it's tier..." is a moronic argument for balancing/ship comparsions either way. Like if the maller could tank a thorax or rupture long enough to so it's 150 dps can kill them before they waste it.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:54:00 -
[21]
if we're talking about filling slots, put a medium nos in the rax's empty high
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust -
Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine?
LOL -Suvetar |
Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:56:00 -
[22]
A Thorax is no Deimos, Sarmaul. 5 high slots only there.
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.07.10 21:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sarmaul
if we're talking about filling slots, put a medium nos in the rax's empty high
Try fitting 4 heavy pulse IIs, and 1 medium nos on the Omen... :)
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Commander Thrawn
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:06:00 -
[24]
that graph says nothing, you cannot fit 4 heavy's on a Omen without 2 RCU in lows. no one will do this, fix the power grid, then the ship is good
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Commander Thrawn
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: fkingfurious
Mhh.. 5 t2 heavy neutrons: 954/1025 PG for thorax. 4 t2 heavy pulse + 1 t2 heavy missle launcher: 926/912 PG for Omen.
Omen, Tier 2.
Thorax, tier 3.
Do u still want to continue that argument?
Geddon tier 1
Apoc tier 2
i fail to see your point
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
that graph says nothing, you cannot fit 4 heavy's on a Omen without 2 RCU in lows. no one will do this, fix the power grid, then the ship is good
You can fit 4 heavy pulse IIs without any RCUs. Are you maybe looking at beams instead?
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Aramendel
A Thorax is no Deimos, Sarmaul. 5 high slots only there.
I'm going to sleep.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust -
Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine?
LOL -Suvetar |
Commander Thrawn
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Stamm
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
that graph says nothing, you cannot fit 4 heavy's on a Omen without 2 RCU in lows. no one will do this, fix the power grid, then the ship is good
You can fit 4 heavy pulse IIs without any RCUs. Are you maybe looking at beams instead?
im at work so and i dont have Quickfit installed, but i have fitted an omen with heavy's before and it does require RCU's
just based on the idem database the omen has 730pg before skills, a tech2 heavy takes 231. x4 that 924. how you gonna fit this
one sec im gonna get Quickfit just cause i know its not possible :)
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
Originally by: Stamm
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
that graph says nothing, you cannot fit 4 heavy's on a Omen without 2 RCU in lows. no one will do this, fix the power grid, then the ship is good
You can fit 4 heavy pulse IIs without any RCUs. Are you maybe looking at beams instead?
im at work so and i dont have Quickfit installed, but i have fitted an omen with heavy's before and it does require RCU's
just based on the idem database the omen has 730pg before skills, a tech2 heavy takes 231. x4 that 924. how you gonna fit this
one sec im gonna get Quickfit just cause i know its not possible :)
200mil says I'm right and you're wrong. Wanna take me up on it?
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:15:00 -
[30]
Omen with 4xHP II leaves 80.9pg left
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust -
Suvetar, care to confirm these rumours about you being an unstoppable sex machine?
LOL -Suvetar |
Commander Thrawn
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:25:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 10/07/2006 22:25:25
Originally by: Sarmaul
Omen with 4xHP II leaves 80.9pg left
there we go. this leaves no room for a med armor rep lol.
not to mention and AB or a plate or something.
wonderfull grid we have
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Emeline Cabernet
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:32:00 -
[32]
theres minnie frigs out there who farts harder than omen hits. only good amarr cruiser is arbi.
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Commander Thrawn
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:43:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Emeline Cabernet
theres minnie frigs out there who farts harder than omen hits. only good amarr cruiser is arbi.
agreed,
the tech 2 variants are cool, but the tech1s are just crap
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korrey
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:56:00 -
[34]
Just wire me the 200mil instead and we'll call this thread even.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:56:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lester Mako
You expect a doomsday weapon from a T1, Tier 1 cruiser? Rig up a Exequror and then cry to me.
I'd like to point out that the guy is *****ing about a ship which can pull about 2x the DPS of a Hawk using t1 standards.
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Cohkka
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Posted - 2006.07.10 22:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 10/07/2006 22:25:25
Originally by: Sarmaul
Omen with 4xHP II leaves 80.9pg left
there we go. this leaves no room for a med armor rep lol.
not to mention and AB or a plate or something.
wonderfull grid we have
As the Thorax fitted with neutron blasters?
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Emeline Cabernet
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Posted - 2006.07.10 23:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 10/07/2006 22:25:25
Originally by: Sarmaul
Omen with 4xHP II leaves 80.9pg left
there we go. this leaves no room for a med armor rep lol.
not to mention and AB or a plate or something.
wonderfull grid we have
As the Thorax fitted with neutron blasters?
what idiot fits heavy pulse t2 anyway on omen? must be some rich spoiled retard..
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Forsch
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Posted - 2006.07.10 23:09:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Cruiser DPS Calcs
Does this graph factor in 60-80% armor resistance to EM damage?
Didn't think so. 
Also range of an Omen with conflag is below 10km iirc. A speed mod is a must have. Using scorch will gimp your damage seriously since it's mostly EM damage.
Forsch
Defender of the empire
More love for side factions! |
Minyon
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Posted - 2006.07.10 23:46:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Forsch
Originally by: Sarmaul
Cruiser DPS Calcs
Does this graph factor in 60-80% armor resistance to EM damage?
Didn't think so.
Also range of an Omen with conflag is below 10km iirc. A speed mod is a must have. Using scorch will gimp your damage seriously since it's mostly EM damage.
If your going to moan about the highish em resistances on armor dont forget that with any rounded 3x 50% or 55% hardner setups hybrids are tanked the most
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.11 00:06:00 -
[40]
So hybrids have more problems to kill morons/noobs which use a setup with a) gives you less effective hitpoints, b) has higher fitting requirements and c) needs more cap than a 2* EAN2 + DC setup?
Oh my. I feel for you. Seriously.
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Flipidy Floo
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Posted - 2006.07.11 00:45:00 -
[41]
I guess the thing that bothers me most is that the BS graph looks completely wrong compaired to the cruiser graph.... why is that?
Cruiser graph looks right to me... when you think of the ship descriptions and what not.
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eLLioTT wave
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Posted - 2006.07.11 01:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: fkingfurious
Mhh.. 5 t2 heavy neutrons: 954/1025 PG for thorax. 4 t2 heavy pulse + 1 t2 heavy missle launcher: 926/912 PG for Omen.
Omen, Tier 2.
Thorax, tier 3.
Do u still want to continue that argument?
by that reasoning the geddon (tier 1) should be lower dps than the apoc (tier 2) ?
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Mo Steel
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Posted - 2006.07.11 03:40:00 -
[43]
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
Originally by: fkingfurious
Mhh.. 5 t2 heavy neutrons: 954/1025 PG for thorax. 4 t2 heavy pulse + 1 t2 heavy missle launcher: 926/912 PG for Omen.
Omen, Tier 2.
Thorax, tier 3.
Do u still want to continue that argument?
by that reasoning the geddon (tier 1) should be lower dps than the apoc (tier 2) ?
I wish people didn't only think in terms of DPS all the time, it's pathetic.
Higher tiers have other benefits besides DPS - These typically include better / more slot placements, better speed or hitpoints, and better fitting capabilities.
DPS is not the end-all be-all of ship balance, and it never will be. Accept that raw DPS alone is only meaningful in a one on one standoff firing at a target that cannot do anything (i.e. large collideable objects).
Want a sig made? Eve-Mail me, signatures made for 5 million isk each.
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Lisento Slaven
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Posted - 2006.07.11 04:12:00 -
[44]
Wouldn't it be cool if close-range combat actually took place at 10km+ =D
I mean...who knew that the only reason people fight close up is to use webbers (10km and below) and scramblers (7.5km for 2 strength basic).
Is it possible to use pulse turrets without using a webber and also being in webber range of your enemy?
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Forsch
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Posted - 2006.07.11 08:43:00 -
[45]
DPS is important in this case because that's supposed to be an Amarrian strength (along with tanking, which isn't much different from anyone else).
The other races have alot more going for them. Drones, low sig, high speed, variable damage, slot versatility, ew capabilities.
You know, it's getting damn frustrating if even in your supposedly best field, you get beaten by other races which have other advantages on top.
Forsch
Defender of the empire
More love for side factions! |
Hikari Sato
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Posted - 2006.07.11 08:52:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Emeline Cabernet
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 10/07/2006 22:25:25
Originally by: Sarmaul
Omen with 4xHP II leaves 80.9pg left
there we go. this leaves no room for a med armor rep lol.
not to mention and AB or a plate or something.
wonderfull grid we have
As the Thorax fitted with neutron blasters?
what idiot fits heavy pulse t2 anyway on omen? must be some rich spoiled retard..
I used to fit them on my omen with my old char
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DeadRow
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Posted - 2006.07.11 08:53:00 -
[47]
Damn alt >_<
CCP nerfed my sig:
For the cool sig see here |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.07.11 08:57:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 11/07/2006 08:57:46
Originally by: Nebuli
Omg all that defines a good ship from a bad ship is its DPS
Actually I've noticed that as well and it worries me a little.
It seems the pure basis of how good a ship is comes from it's abilty to "tank & gank".
I've found some ships that others claim "suck" are very effective when you use less convential setups.
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
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Linavin
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Posted - 2006.07.11 09:09:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Wild Rho
It seems the pure basis of how good a ship is comes from it's abilty to "tank & gank". I've found some ships that others claim "suck" are very effective when you use less convential setups.
I am personally fine with unconventionial setups being more useful than cookie cutters, but in this case dps is actually what defines this particular ship. The Omen is there soley to dish out high damage while doing little else. It has very little versatility and thus room for unconventionial setups. If you do try and do something else other than gank with it, you'll probably be outclassed by a ship which utilizes said setup much more efficently.
---
Originally by: Boris A
I found the rock music button!
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.11 09:19:00 -
[50]
To be honest, I'm only seing people using the "all that defines a good ship from a bad ship is its DPS" mindset with ships whose main role IS dps. There it is quite correct. What else is the role of the omen or arma if not that?
You do not see someone complaining that the scorps dps sucks because it is obviously that it's strength lies in another area.
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Tassi
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Posted - 2006.07.11 11:00:00 -
[51]
maller > omen for anti frig work.
anti cruiser work in maller/omen, what is that? Go and train for thorax/ruppy.
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Tel Bakhara
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Posted - 2006.07.11 11:17:00 -
[52]
With a set of RCUIV/SPRIV I can melt every Maller!!
No offence but I found that I really need RCUIV and SPRIV to fit on my Omen
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.07.11 11:48:00 -
[53]
Originally by: korrey
...it shows the second LOWEST dps from 10km to 20km...look again.
 You've got your monitor upside down mate.
---------------------
Sig to come soonish.
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Gergina
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Posted - 2006.07.11 11:54:00 -
[54]
Kinda funny how peeps in here say don`t look at DPS - there is more then that.
Did you guys ever fly an omen? Doy ou know the ship or are you just talking out of your behinds?
The omen is no tank - that`s the maller. The omen is now EW platform (as most amarr ships).
There is simply only one single thing an omen should be able to do - and that is dealing damage and there it fails miserably.
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Simon Illian
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Posted - 2006.07.11 12:00:00 -
[55]
maybe stop to think at a 1VS1 fight ???
i find a 10-20 Km range is fine for my omen in fleet fight for eating other side support ..; and all ppl think i'm a noob piloting my omen ... and i eat them i eat them :p
na omen is weak in some way, but in some particular occasion (no not special fitting, it does not have place for that) he can be effective.
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Yodohime Kibagami
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Posted - 2006.07.11 12:46:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Commander Thrawn
Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 10/07/2006 22:25:25
Originally by: Sarmaul
Omen with 4xHP II leaves 80.9pg left
there we go. this leaves no room for a med armor rep lol.
not to mention and AB or a plate or something.
wonderfull grid we have
As the Thorax fitted with neutron blasters?
Maaaybe, if the heavy pulses werent comparable better to ions instead of neuts.
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.07.11 13:46:00 -
[57]
rawr dps, doesn't win fights. |
Woopie
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Posted - 2006.07.11 14:02:00 -
[58]
Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd
rawr dps, doesn't win fights.
That is the the hole point, Omen doesn't tank.
Even though it does like 10% more damage than Maller, Maller can at least tank. Even geddons do a semi tank and that makes them a flavourable choice sometimes.
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Kharak'khan
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Posted - 2006.07.12 11:17:00 -
[59]
Used an Omen quite allot in a tech 2 all out gank setup cheap and cheerful and good support for close in ships! Wow its damage per sec isnt great but so what it cost like 3-4 mill :o what are you expecting 200dmg per hit every 1 sec.
Also Quickfit is bollax for DPS in reality its so much differant.
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Forsch
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Posted - 2006.07.12 12:00:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kharak'khan
Also Quickfit is bollax for DPS in reality its so much differant.
Exactely, mate. In reality it's alot worse because of the high EM resistance on armor compared to other weapon system.
Forsch
Defender of the empire
More love for side factions! |
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