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Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
280
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Posted - 2011.11.21 20:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello All,
There is a thread about ECM and how you would change or keep it the same in GD and is quite good. I'd like to have a similar conversation about Sensor Dampeners, which I think many people feel are too weak.
If you could change them, how would you?
I've tried using them quite a bit, to little effect, although it is typically my fault :)
What about you?
AG Let us eat cake! -áI mean open containers in corp hangers please ... Let us stack all modules (eliminate repackaging), except damaged ones, give them a red hue/icon. Let us see damaged drones in our drone bay!
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Itoliog
Derelict Angels Anuran Origin
1
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Posted - 2011.11.21 20:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Using the SD is mainly a challenge of using the best script for the situation. For myself they work well, especially on the Gallente Recon hulls. Is it the immediate and ultimate shutdown of a falcon, no, but is it more useful than a turret destabilizer, yes.
Ewar in general is unbalanced across the races. |
Gregor Marethel
Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
6
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Posted - 2011.11.21 20:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Their major problem IMHO is their short range. Just give them the same optimal and falloff that target painters have and I think they will be much better. |
Daedalus Arcova
Havoc Violence and Chaos BricK sQuAD.
151
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Posted - 2011.11.21 20:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
They need a lot of work. Longer range, stronger effect, less cap, and a bigger bonus on Gallente EWar ships are all in order.
Caldari are the kings of EWar, and that's how it should be. But the other EWar modules (damps in particular) just don't even come close at the moment. Damps ought to be a counter to long-range kiters (i.e. Drake blobs), but their poor range and strength just leaves them severely wanting. |
mkint
383
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Posted - 2011.11.21 20:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gregor Marethel wrote:Their major problem IMHO is their short range. Just give them the same optimal and falloff that target painters have and I think they will be much better. That is so contradictory. Gallente = blasters = short range. Damps should be more powerful like 3x a really short optimal maybe 20km and a hundred km falloff. |
Abrazzar
353
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Posted - 2011.11.21 20:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gregor Marethel wrote:Their major problem IMHO is their short range. Just give them the same optimal and falloff that target painters have and I think they will be much better. This.
Their purpose would be to counter Caldari long range tactics and they need to reach that far before they can even start countering them. Then the blasters can approach and the signature resolution dampening lowers the lock time of the ships so the blaster boats have more time closing the last bit of distance.
At least in theory. Reality is looking much more bleak. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Daedalus Arcova
Havoc Violence and Chaos BricK sQuAD.
151
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Posted - 2011.11.21 21:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
mkint wrote:Gregor Marethel wrote:Their major problem IMHO is their short range. Just give them the same optimal and falloff that target painters have and I think they will be much better. That is so contradictory. Gallente = blasters = short range. Damps should be more powerful like 3x a really short optimal maybe 20km and a hundred km falloff.
Don't be stupid.
The whole point of RSDs is to mess with the targeting systems of long-range opponents (i.e. Caldari), while blaster boats close the distance. For that, they need good range in the first place or they won't be able to counter snipers until they're so close for it not to matter.
Shorter ranged RSDs would just make them completely pointless, as you'd only be able to significantly affect your opponent's targeting range at such a close range that it wouldn't make any difference. |
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University Amarr Empire
90
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Posted - 2011.11.21 21:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Give them more range, make them a useful counter to other EWAR at range, maybe a slight buff to strength so they're almost as useful as TD's versus kiting fleets at range with lachs/arazus. |
Daedalus Arcova
Havoc Violence and Chaos BricK sQuAD.
151
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Posted - 2011.11.21 21:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Several people have commented on the range-damping abilities of RSDs. But what about scan resolution dampening? Is it useful? If not, what would you change to improve it? |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
112
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Posted - 2011.11.21 21:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
from what i heard sensor damps can be killer in snipper fleets and in wormholes that get bonus to ewar...
but since sniper fleets are non existant now a days... sensor damps have lost thier usefullness...
tbh fix probe mechanics and sensor damps are fixed...
if not make sensor damps actually reduce the ships sensor strength to make it so you have a gal ship with one sensor damp and one multispec ecm... |
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Gregor Marethel
Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
6
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Posted - 2011.11.21 21:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Daedalus Arcova wrote:Several people have commented on the range-damping abilities of RSDs. But what about scan resolution dampening? Is it useful? If not, could it be if it was improved? The funny thing is that scan res damping is most useful when combined with ECM, since otherwise it's only effective for the first seconds of a battle. Again, a longer range would help at this task immensely so it can keep range with the jamming ships.
Unfortunately, the ships it would be the most useful against (Titans and Moms) are immune to it.
The only other significant use is to target logi in battle to make it take longer for them to switch targets, but if they are not very close to their target I expect range scripts will be more useful. |
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University Amarr Empire
90
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Posted - 2011.11.21 21:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah scan res has a place for screwing with logi when you're rapidly switching primaries, but the effects generally aren't large enough to make it worth fitting over something else like... ECM. |
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
280
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Posted - 2011.11.22 03:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
What if Sensor Dampeners also affected Weapon Signature Resolution as well? Woudn't hurt missiles but would in essence make it so that guns couldn't resolve targets as well, aka smaller ships get most help from them. Let us eat cake! -áI mean open containers in corp hangers please ... Let us stack all modules (eliminate repackaging), except damaged ones, give them a red hue/icon. Let us see damaged drones in our drone bay!
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Archare
SKEET ELITE
3
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Posted - 2011.11.22 03:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Apollo Gabriel wrote:What if Sensor Dampeners also affected Weapon Signature Resolution as well? Woudn't hurt missiles but would in essence make it so that guns couldn't resolve targets as well, aka smaller ships get most help from them.
Sounds kind of novel, but conceptually I think altering weapon signature resolution is more of a tracking disruption effect.
Instead, one of the reasons ecm is so effective is racial specific ecm mods (aside from the other multitude of reasons). So how about racial specific sensor dampeners?
Essentially have them work by giving larger penalties against a particular race at the cost of being left effective against the other 3? Along with more effective damping, the modules could use less cap and have longer optimal ranges and falloff with lower fitting requirements just like racial ecm does compared to multispecs. Fitting damps then could be both more appealing and allow for an increase in tactical options. Also from an implementation/mechanics I think this idea would not require gutting the whole system to put in, though it might require some tweaking to make the racial specific mods.
edit: Now that I think about it this idea could also be applied to tracking disruptors and painters though I am not sure if they would have as much of an effect on those systems due to my unfamiliarity with them. |
Elrich Kouvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2011.11.22 04:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Archare wrote:Apollo Gabriel wrote:What if Sensor Dampeners also affected Weapon Signature Resolution as well? Woudn't hurt missiles but would in essence make it so that guns couldn't resolve targets as well, aka smaller ships get most help from them. Sounds kind of novel, but conceptually I think altering weapon signature resolution is more of a tracking disruption effect. Instead, one of the reasons ecm is so effective is racial specific ecm mods (aside from the other multitude of reasons). So how about racial specific sensor dampeners? Essentially have them work by giving larger penalties against a particular race at the cost of being left effective against the other 3? Along with more effective damping, the modules could use less cap and have longer optimal ranges and falloff with lower fitting requirements just like racial ecm does compared to multispecs. Fitting damps then could be both more appealing and allow for an increase in tactical options. Also from an implementation/mechanics I think this idea would not require gutting the whole system to put in, though it might require some tweaking to make the racial specific mods. edit: Now that I think about it this idea could also be applied to tracking disruptors and painters though I am not sure if they would have as much of an effect on those systems due to my unfamiliarity with them. Makes sense and I'm sure it wouldn't take CCP too much work to put it into the game.
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Daedalus Arcova
Havoc Violence and Chaos BricK sQuAD.
153
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Posted - 2011.11.22 11:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Archare wrote:Apollo Gabriel wrote:What if Sensor Dampeners also affected Weapon Signature Resolution as well? Woudn't hurt missiles but would in essence make it so that guns couldn't resolve targets as well, aka smaller ships get most help from them. Sounds kind of novel, but conceptually I think altering weapon signature resolution is more of a tracking disruption effect. Instead, one of the reasons ecm is so effective is racial specific ecm mods (aside from the other multitude of reasons). So how about racial specific sensor dampeners? Essentially have them work by giving larger penalties against a particular race at the cost of being left effective against the other 3? Along with more effective damping, the modules could use less cap and have longer optimal ranges and falloff with lower fitting requirements just like racial ecm does compared to multispecs. Fitting damps then could be both more appealing and allow for an increase in tactical options. Also from an implementation/mechanics I think this idea would not require gutting the whole system to put in, though it might require some tweaking to make the racial specific mods. edit: Now that I think about it this idea could also be applied to tracking disruptors and painters though I am not sure if they would have as much of an effect on those systems due to my unfamiliarity with them.
Worst idea ever. There is nothing wrong with RSDs as a concept. What they need is a simple spreadsheet buff, not a nerf, and certainly not a complete redesign. |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis
319
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Posted - 2011.11.22 11:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sensor Dampers on their own are fine.
What needs a boost are the Keres, Arazu and Lachesis. Their bonuses for Damps need to be much higher. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
124
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Posted - 2011.11.22 13:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gregor Marethel wrote:Their major problem IMHO is their short range. Just give them the same optimal and falloff that target painters have and I think they will be much better.
And verily, my Dev main has made it thus. All bow down to me. |
Amro One
One.
33
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Posted - 2011.11.22 13:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gallente are enemies with caldari. - Dampeners vs ECM - Short rang VS long rang - Blasters VS missiles
To get long rang closer to you, you dampen them. If target is already close rang then dampeners suck. Nothing wrong with dampeners, they work and do exactly like there suppose to.
How about you morons think next time. |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis
319
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Posted - 2011.11.22 13:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
What?
They'd approach blaster ships and negate their range and speed advantage?
Have you ever been in a fleet before?
Ever If you could damp down each and every one of their ships to 15, its not like a sane FC would ever let make them close in. All this talk is hypothetical anyways because Gallente recons would have to be effective at damping in the first place. |
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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
14
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Posted - 2011.11.22 13:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
mkint wrote:Gregor Marethel wrote:Their major problem IMHO is their short range. Just give them the same optimal and falloff that target painters have and I think they will be much better. That is so contradictory. Gallente = blasters = short range. Damps should be more powerful like 3x a really short optimal maybe 20km and a hundred km falloff.
Hence Gallente forcing their enemies to come in closer. |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
43
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Posted - 2011.11.22 13:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Apollo Gabriel wrote:...
I've tried using them quite a bit, to little effect, although it is typically my fault :)
What about you?
my success was bigger: i offered my friend to aggro me and started to scram and damp him.... I was really sure he damped.... but then my frigate got blown =)))
personally i think T2 frig (let's say Keres) should have ability to damp BS into like 30km with 2-3 dampeners to hold him in warp disruptor and be outside of lock range. Maybe it would make those frigates OP
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
124
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Posted - 2011.11.22 14:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Apollo Gabriel wrote:...
I've tried using them quite a bit, to little effect, although it is typically my fault :)
What about you?
my success was bigger: i offered my friend to aggro me and started to scram and damp him.... I was really sure he damped.... but then my frigate got blown =))) personally i think T2 frig (let's say Keres) should have ability to damp BS into like 30km with 2-3 dampeners to hold him in warp disruptor and be outside of lock range. Maybe it would make those frigates OP
This thread is hilariously ill-informed. What you are suggesting is a nerf. The Keres can already damp a BS to 25 km lock range with two damps. Abaddon, 100 km lock range, Keres RSD cuts lock range by 53%, from 100 km to 25.2 km with two.
Asking for RSD to have the same optimal and falloff as painters? They already do, ffs. 45 km optimal, 90 km falloff on both, T2 and best-named. |
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