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Alahar Sardokh
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Posted - 2006.07.12 14:28:00 -
[61]
I had great fun against vagas with geddon, heavy neuts and 5x heavy web drones, multiple 20km disruptors. The web drones are very fast, once he's within 20km it works (may escape if he's paying attention) But the perfect solution is the gallente and minmatar recon ships together.
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Shimpu
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Posted - 2006.07.12 14:37:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Apollo Balthar
And all of a sudden is one of the few Minmatar ships that actually does what they promise on the box (iaw, use speed to it's advantage, instead of being marginally faster but made of tinfoil) is overpowered.
This is what really annoys me too. People are fine with minnie ships being speedy when it doesnt affect the outcome of a fight. But when it does, the whining starts. I think its pathetic. People want to sit in their tanks and be able to kill any ship without changing the default pvp setup, otherwise they feel the other ship is overpowered.
/signed
Originally by: Seleene
This is what happens when you eat the red M&M's
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Omega Bloodstone
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Posted - 2006.07.12 14:44:00 -
[63]
So now Min. have a capable 1v1 ship. Mind blowing huh...nerf nerf nerf...we aren't used to it. Geez...if you force a Vaga to warp out you did not die nor did he. Does not mean he won, no, it means the best he could do is a draw against you. Good job on your part. So peoplr really are asking for a nerf because of draws???
Min. do not have the best dps.
Min. do not have the best tank.
Min. do not have the best drones.
They only have the best speed.
So with that said if the Min. are going to recieve nerfs over a fast ship then the Domi needs nerfing because it has the best drones, the Caldari needs nerfing because they have the best missle boats, and the amarr need nerfing because they have the best tank...Thats the only justification that should happen if people want the speed of the Vaga nerfed.
Also, like said before...the stabs seem to be the point that most people are irritated at. "It just warps out when you get it in trouble." Put 5 stabs on a Deimos, Zealot, Cerebrus and then because your able to warp out others will scream nerf...Chill people...Speed is the ONLY Minmatar advantage. Back off and let the race utilize its strength or go nerfing the others because they have strengths.
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Laboratus
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Posted - 2006.07.12 14:50:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
This is what really annoys me too. People are fine with minnie ships being speedy when it doesnt affect the outcome of a fight. But when it does, the whining starts. I think its pathetic. People want to sit in their tanks and be able to kill any ship without changing the default pvp setup, otherwise they feel the other ship is overpowered.
/signed
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Lumel
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Posted - 2006.07.12 15:45:00 -
[65]
OMG, Ishtar can fit nos, web, scram, AND jam while tanking and doing uber dps with drones! It needs a nerf!
Oh, wait, sorry... this is a Vaga nerf thread? Ok, I'll be over here then... >.>
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Knowledge won't help us understand |
Omega Bloodstone
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Posted - 2006.07.12 15:48:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Lumel
OMG, Ishtar can fit nos, web, scram, AND jam while tanking and doing uber dps with drones! It needs a nerf!
Oh, wait, sorry... this is a Vaga nerf thread? Ok, I'll be over here then... >.>
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!
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Derran
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Posted - 2006.07.12 19:00:00 -
[67]
Fit an Ishtar with 3 warp scramblers, and a web and AB or MWD. Use several web drones to slow the vagabond down to get in range with your scramblers and then that should take care of it once you swap to combat drones and start dealing some real damage.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.07.12 19:02:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Derran
Fit an Ishtar with 3 warp scramblers, and a web and AB or MWD. Use several web drones to slow the vagabond down to get in range with your scramblers and then that should take care of it once you swap to combat drones and start dealing some real damage.
I think the vaga would kill the webbing drones, and 1 web wont keep it in range for long.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Xendie
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Posted - 2006.07.12 19:06:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Edited by: Shayla Sh''inlux on 12/07/2006 12:23:25
Quote:
But I see vagabonds on our killboards everyweek having been killed by solo Cylones. Is it perhaps that sometime player skill has more to do with it maybe?
For those cases, if you mean lack of skill on part of the vagabond pilot, then yes.
It's not about that you can't kill a Vagabond, it's about the amount of effort you need to go through to do so. Flying a Vagabond +stabs is like playing Eve in godmode.
I mean, yes, inties are pretty much unkillable as well, but inties don't kill any ship smaller than a BS without breaking a sweat. A Vagabond does.
A ship that goes 4k/sec without trying hard, shreds anything that has hopes of catching it in 5 seconds and needs a fullfledged ganksquad to be killed is plain wrong IMO. It ignores all the laws of risk vs reward that Eve is built on. You just buy a Vaga, fir your cookie-cutter setup and go kill stuff in 0.0 without the risk of being killed if you even remotely know what you're doing.
i totally agree.
id say the solution would be to tinker with the inertia of the vagabond and nerf snake implants by 75%
no ship should be as untouchable like the vagabond is today.
not any other HAC has abilities that are similar.
and it is a heave assault cruiser not a oversized inty going 7k/sec, nerf it to hell and back
Originally by: F'nog
This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.07.12 19:09:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Omega Bloodstone
So now Min. have a capable 1v1 ship. Mind blowing huh...nerf nerf nerf...we aren't used to it. Geez...if you force a Vaga to warp out you did not die nor did he. Does not mean he won, no, it means the best he could do is a draw against you. Good job on your part. So peoplr really are asking for a nerf because of draws???
Min. do not have the best dps.
Min. do not have the best tank.
Min. do not have the best drones.
They only have the best speed.
So with that said if the Min. are going to recieve nerfs over a fast ship then the Domi needs nerfing because it has the best drones, the Caldari needs nerfing because they have the best missle boats, and the amarr need nerfing because they have the best tank...Thats the only justification that should happen if people want the speed of the Vaga nerfed.
Also, like said before...the stabs seem to be the point that most people are irritated at. "It just warps out when you get it in trouble." Put 5 stabs on a Deimos, Zealot, Cerebrus and then because your able to warp out others will scream nerf...Chill people...Speed is the ONLY Minmatar advantage. Back off and let the race utilize its strength or go nerfing the others because they have strengths.
you cant hit something with guns that goes 7k transversal
you dont do any dmg with missiles to anything going 7k transversal
Originally by: F'nog
This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Derran
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Posted - 2006.07.12 19:15:00 -
[71]
Is it just me or are people complaining about stuff that they didn't specifically setup their ship to handle? If you are wandering along in a close range ship and a Vagabond with T2 220mm and barrage ammo comes by, sure, chances are you are going to lose. But that is because yoru ship isn't equipped to handle it. Live with the fact that you can't prepare for something unpredictable. The vagabond could have just as easily missed seeing your ship. Anyone can beat any ship as long as their ship is set up for dealing against that kind of threat. But the thing of it is, you will suck against certain other ship types. Just because the Vagabond is the current flavor right now means nothing. I'd fly one myself but I think they things are ugly and I hate using guns. I just fire a few missiles, ECM it and it goes away.
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NumbaONE Gunna
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Posted - 2006.07.12 19:34:00 -
[72]
OMG whats with people complain complain "the vaga is way too good" ok so we actually get a good solo ship and you ***** all f0cking day. well hell I am terribly sorry that your f0cking torps on your raven don't insta wtf own it in one volley. get a f0cking life you piece of sh1t. my god you complain about wsc...gimp your damage setup...yeah every ship in the game has low slots. Fit a good few wsc then you can do the same f0cking thing. yeah even your raven (which all 70% of eve players own) can fit wsc. or did you forget that the bcs in the low slot could be dumped for em. but oh wait we caught you with your pants down ratting. so your trying to ***** about your npc killing machine not insta popping a vaga? hmm odd. well lets fix this...torps explosion velosity at oh say 100k/s with a 1000000000km radius should do the trick. yep that satisfy all the npc mobbing raven lovers out there? its sad when a 1bil isk vaga vs a 120mil raven is a close call. wost part is when the raven pilot *****es cause it was close with something like "cmon ccp nerf the vaga i'm a 1.3mil sp guy in a raven I should be able to insta pop any ship in the game that silly vaga pilot with all his 23mil sp almost got me" when the dev's make the rave at this point the vaga pilot would go to sell his vaga and buy a raven 1/10 the cost 100 times the power and you have all 70% of eve backing it so you nvr worry about a nerf 
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Quarantine
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Posted - 2006.07.12 19:42:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Xendie
you cant hit something with guns that goes 7k transversal
you dont do any dmg with missiles to anything going 7k transversal
First off, 7km transversal is not the same as having a maxspeed of 7km/sec. Achieving a max speed of that requires pirate implants and faction modules costing 1+ billion - for the same amount of money you can set up other hacs so that they can tank a vagabond indefinitely. An ordinary vaga with good skills goes around 3,5km/sec.
I admit that I never got my vaga to a speed of over 4km/sec, but I doubt that you hit targets of your size very well with that huge transversal.
I've said it already, you can pick your fights with the vaga, you can gank npcers, and you can't even consider to engage missile/drone boats fitted for pvp. People get ganked in a belt by one, fit their raven/domi and try to engage it by themself, and come here to the forums to demand nerfs after it has escaped. That's pretty much all that is to this thread.
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Apollo Balthar
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Posted - 2006.07.12 21:36:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Derran
Fit an Ishtar with 3 warp scramblers, and a web and AB or MWD. Use several web drones to slow the vagabond down to get in range with your scramblers and then that should take care of it once you swap to combat drones and start dealing some real damage.
I think the vaga would kill the webbing drones, and 1 web wont keep it in range for long.
And I think that by the time that vaga has even locked 2 of those drones, he is caught and NOS'ed. If you feel the need to try this on test I'm welcome to demonstrate...
This post represent my own, my Corporation's, my mother's and my father's, my mates' and the royal families'point of view.
Now shut up and be happy!
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Still Hart
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Posted - 2006.07.12 22:39:00 -
[75]
Seems to me that this is a MMO. If you fly around with 1 friend at all times, setup to complement eachother, you can beat most any solo ship. If you're burned about dying in 1v1 fights all the time, don't get into 1v1 fights.
And I agree with others, chasing a hostile away is a win. If I'm guarding for my miners, what do I care if I got a killmail or not? I care if my miners are all still alive and mining at the end of the day.
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Synapse Archae
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Posted - 2006.07.12 22:52:00 -
[76]
Use webifier drones and take the extra slot you used for webbing and put on an extra scram.
You will have to worry about his drones destroying the webber drones though. Perhaps carry 2 sets, one set will get you up close, give you time to kill his drones or him [blasterthron shuold be able to kill him before he kills 5 webber drones], and have another set ready.
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http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=349194&page=1Redo Fleets[/ur |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.07.12 22:55:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 12/07/2006 22:55:16
I was about to suggest to boost the vagabond so that it doesn't need to flee as much, so that people stop complaining about it fleeing all the time. But then people would complain about it staying >.<
Seriously, if faction stuffs or other mods are unbalanced, no need to nuke the ship through indiscriminate nerfing (and if it has to many lows for stabs, give it more mids  ).
NB.
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2006.07.12 23:05:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 12/07/2006 22:55:16
Seriously, if faction stuffs or other mods are unbalanced, no need to nuke the ship through indiscriminate nerfing (and if it has to many lows for stabs, give it more mids ).
NB.
Agree, same for munin. Having resists for shield tanking but slots for armor tanking is really messed up. But I guess people are going to start complaining it has too good tank instead if you do that.
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.07.12 23:38:00 -
[79]
Edited by: madaluap on 12/07/2006 23:38:51
Another nerf warpcore stabs thread in disguise....
time to bring out the heavy gun:  yeh take that
Originally by: Naughty Boy
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 12/07/2006 22:55:16
(and if it has to many lows for stabs, give it more mids ).
NB.
lol you wish 
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Audrea
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Posted - 2006.07.13 00:21:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Apollo Balthar
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Derran
Fit an Ishtar with 3 warp scramblers, and a web and AB or MWD. Use several web drones to slow the vagabond down to get in range with your scramblers and then that should take care of it once you swap to combat drones and start dealing some real damage.
I think the vaga would kill the webbing drones, and 1 web wont keep it in range for long.
And I think that by the time that vaga has even locked 2 of those drones, he is caught and NOS'ed. If you feel the need to try this on test I'm welcome to demonstrate...
I would love to take you up on that and try various setups against vaga, problem is, there are only so many faction and deadspace items you can get on test server (since they arent seeded).
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Tired of fleet combat lag? -Post HERE
All posts are my personal opinions. |
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IamBen
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Posted - 2006.07.13 00:24:00 -
[81]
well i got my character killed by one the ohter day, i was tangling with it while a tempest shot me down, (kudos to them).
A good strat for killing one is with a dominix. Pack an mwd and a good web. A good vaga pilot will probaly stay out of range while wearing you down and then maybe come in close for the kill. A good way to knock off a domi is to use 5 webber drones.
MWD at the domi from out of range, The domi might not expect the webber drones to nail it. Then slap on the points nos/guns and your own web. Then pull in the webber drones and release your damage drones.
It might not work but its worth a try.
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MobyMule
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Posted - 2006.07.13 00:29:00 -
[82]
I would listen to Apollo. He is a very good at PVP especially the minnie ships.
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Shayla Sh'inlux
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Posted - 2006.07.13 00:37:00 -
[83]
Instead of nitpicking at random numbers and thereby dismissing a valid argument let's stick to the issue at hand. I see Vaga's zip around at 3 k/s on a daily basis. Fair enough, 4k/s is a bit out of whack, but that's not the point.
The point is, that a Vagabond with stabs and maybe a local Nano or two is playing Eve in godmode. I don't care if it's stabs or the ship that's imbalanced, but it's pretty damn clear that something here is wrong.
Just because dual faction web and dual faction scrambler might (or might not) catch it and a specifically setup battleship might kill it before it runs anyway it isn't any less of an issue.
I don't mind the Vaga being fast. It's its signature strength. I do mind it being near invincible. If that Vaga fits a fleeting web, a 10mn II I'm truly curious how you're ever gonna hold it down with less than 5 midslots, which covers about 95% of Eve's ships.
I'm sure it's the combination of uber speed, the ability to shred inties in seconds and stabs that make it horribly imbalanced. If nerfing stabs solves the problem, then please make it so.
I doubt it helps tho. The ship is simply too fast
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Yazoul Samaiel
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Posted - 2006.07.13 00:47:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Altai Saker
The problem here is stabs in combat, not the vaga 
Signed .
Vega + full rack of stabs = Eve in easy mode plus save and exit button.
"What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
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Ishen Villone
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Posted - 2006.07.13 01:22:00 -
[85]
dual web rapier with racial jammers.
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HatePeace LoveWar
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Posted - 2006.07.13 01:28:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Sunetra
Is it perhaps that sometime player skill has more to do with it maybe?
/signed.
Dunno about you people but to me, WCS and warp scramblers/disruptors are the most balanced modules in game.
HERITIC!
Carrier & Fighter Sales |
jbob2000
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Posted - 2006.07.13 02:22:00 -
[87]
The problem is that webs dont work immediatley. This is a nice feature, but it is one of the reasons why vagas are hard to get. Even if you do manage to get a web on a vaga, his inertia will carry him out of the range of the web in no time.
Vagas will kill off the webby drones with no problems at all. They also eat interceptors alive, which negates the use of inties. Also, 7.5km scrams are useless as it is damn near impossible to get within 7.5km of a vaga while its moving.
Give the vaga speed, but don't allow it to ever go as fast as a ceptor. Reduce its max speed to 3km/s with best stuff, and give it some more firepower.
HACs (HEAVY ASSAULT cruisers) are supposed to do damage, not be stupid fast ships. The vagabond is more of a heavy tackler atm, and needs to be more for damage/tanking.
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welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.07.13 02:37:00 -
[88]
Just fly an Eagle with a decent tank, it always ends in a stalemate. :P
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Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.07.13 03:37:00 -
[89]
Get close enough for a dual web, its dead.
All you need is -3 and daul webs. The tank is silly weak compared to active tanks.
That's alot less than other ships imho.
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Friends Forever
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Murukan
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Posted - 2006.07.13 04:35:00 -
[90]
the thing is if you lock down a vaga, it's ******. It can't tank worth a damn so it needs to be fast. And complaining how they always get away cause of stabs is not the vagas fault, that's like saying how overpowered t2 sniping bships are cause they warp away with their rack of stabs when you get close.
And saying how amarr and gallente can't do hit and run is so stupid it's unbelievable. If you want a quick strike guerilla style train minmatar! If you want to have rock hard tanks train amarr! If you want to spew missles and carebear like crazy, train caldari! You want to tank well and put out good dmg where you can see the whites in your enemy's eyes you go gallente. Making it all similar dumbs down the game.
And plus if the vaga warps off, who cares! You still chased it off, so what you missed out on some stupid killboard points, that isn't what the game is about.
In rust we trust!!! |
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